Beta dummy testing and hypothesizing.

[Deleted]

Posted this as a reply to a thread first but figured I might aswell make a new thread and hopefully get some input from other people aswell, the more testing the merrier.

Assassination cleave/aoe tests on the raidbuff dummies. Will in time update with sub and combat logs, not testing combat untill restless blades works atleast. Using premade level 100 pvp char, not using enchants + only one dps trinket. Might get dual trinkets and redo some of the tests, shadow reflection should become stronger for example im guessing. I've heard there was a bug for CT causing relentless strikes procs from more than one target, this was not the case during my testing, it was working properly.

Putting up ruptures on all targets unless it says otherwise. Using talent venom zest unless it says otherwise. using 4 cp finishers when doing mutilate and 5 when casting fan of knives. Using marked for death unless it says otherwise (anticipation isn't working atm). Not using vanish because it puts me out of combat and removes my rupture and poisons sometimes, this shouldn't effect my testing much though. Not using talent death from above because it seems to be bugged at the moment (only casting an envenom half the time).

Text in [ ] is additional info about action priorities.

Basic test = Testing of single abilities to see how they compare to other abilites, not doing any normal rotation. For example testing how well CT does in one log and how well Envenom does in another log when you're spamming fok.

Rotational test instead of Full rotational test = Testing a rotation but without a specific talent, for example too see how no talent would stack up against using the talent.

Test. 1. Targets = 5. Basic test. Abilities used = fok,CT. [fok if = CT buff up]. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/k9NQdBPpMFRXZLqG/

Test 1. Comments: Reason of this test is to compare how CT compares against envenom in a pure aoe situation without using rupture on several targets. Compare this test to test2. Logs show that this is actually better than envenom even if the CT bleed doesnt do any damage at all.

Test 2. Targets = 5. Basic test. Abilities used = fok,Envenom [Envenom buff = no clip, fok if = envenom buff up].: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NBDGybZKfHMRVA6w/

Test 2. Comments: Compare this to test 1.

Test 3. Targets = 3. Basic test test. Abilities used = fok,ct. [if CT buff up = fok].: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q6NcgLRTGaWCxXDr/

Test 3. Comments = Same purpose as test 1+2 but with 3 targets. This test shows that CT is slightly better than envenom when spamming fok, if CT bleed doesnt tick at all they are actually just equal, it seems like the CT bleed doesn't actually change anything for both 5 target aoe and 3 target aoe. Compare to test 4.

Test 4. Targets = 3. Basic test test. Abilities used = fok,envenom. [Envenom buff = no clip, if envenom buff up = fok]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xzNRyZWwG4J92HtP/

Test 4. Comments: compare to test 3.

Test 5. Targets = 3. Basic test test. Abilities used = fok,rupture,CT. [rupture = one target, fok if = CT buff up]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DNzVGR7HAnjPXcyM/

Test 5. comments: Similar purpose as test 3. Difference here is to see how CT and envenom compares at higher energy regen with a rupture ticking on one target.

Test 6.Targets = 3. Basic test test. Abilities used = fok,envenom,rupture. [Envenom buff = no clip, rupture = one target, fok if = Envenom buff up]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TnBGX8aPkfc7D6FK/

Test 6. comments. Compare to test 5.

Test 7.Targets = 3. Basic test. Abilities used = Muti,rupture.: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bhT1tnqA8wFvXKxM/ + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7DWpVrQNxgjFt6Ca/

Test 7. comments. compare to test 8. Purpose of this test is to compare the damage of fok and muti when multidotting without the envenom buff. FoK appeares to have an edge here, test was probably too short though. Further testing inc maybe.

Test 8. Targets = 3. Basic test. Abilities used = Fok,rupture: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DmhRxqLbHZgvtGaf/#

test 8. comments. Compare to test 7.

Test 9. Targets = 3. Basic test. Abilities used = Fok,envenom. [fok with envenom buff, envenom (no clip)]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cmC7pHRZWBbYDjTh/

Test 9. comments. compare to test 12.. Purpose of this test is to see how fok compares to mutilate on 3 targets with envenom buff up. Results favour mutilate despite more auto attack resets.

Test 10.Targets = 3. Basic test. Abilities used = CT,muti. [mutilate [target switching to keep DP up on all targets)]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/c2A9PNCM8gRhQvjd/

Test 10.Comments. Purpose of this test is similar to test 9, except testing CT buff instead of envenom. Results favour fok over mutilate on 3 targets with CT buff up. Compare to test 11.

Test 11.Targets = 3. Basic test. Abilities used = CT,fok. [fok if = CT buff up] : http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qnMmW32jb4CpkagG/#

Test 11. Comments. Compare to test 10.

Test 12.Targets = 3. Basic test. Abilities used = Envenom,muti. [envenom buff=no clip, mutilate(target switching to keep DP up)]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/G97PQZ83WmkNJjAd/

Test 12. comments. compare to test 9.

Test 13. Targets = 3. Full rotational test. Abilities used = Envenom, muti, fok, rupture. [Envenom = clip, muti if = envenom buff up, fok if = no envenom buff]:
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WrYfR9vV8nA7JGzM/ + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wd316qLR79QHFr8f/# + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/atn8xk9jBWRfzc3y/

Test 13. comments. Based on previous testing I wanted to see if I could get good results by spamming fok instead of mutilate during no envenom buff, it seems to be inferior compared to the standard rotation in test 14. This could also be because of dps error, but it doesn't seem to be worth the effort even if you could with addons reach slightly higher results with this. It could just be that when multi rupturing you'll lose auto attack damage from switching anyway, so the gain in the basic tests are lost. Will have to look at the logs further, the constant energy capping could be another reason. Simply that dpe stops mattering as much giving mutilate an edge.

Test 14.Targets = 3. Full rotation test. Abilities used = Rupture, envenom, muti. [envenom = clip]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/b3mL82GJX1YwfMdk + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MPVWCGtzap9TFAxX/

Test 14. comments. Seems to be the optimal and simplest rotation vs 3 targets.

test 15.Targets = 3. Full rotational test. Abilities used = Rupture, envenom, fok. [envenom = clip] : http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QvbkwdYVyjmrpXTt

test 15. comments. Worse than test 14, mutilate just superior with envenom by far. Test 18 shows to be superior to this, based on the basic testing this makes sense, crimson tempest just works better with fok, but test 14 is still superior to both.

test 16. This test was removed, I forgot that CT now has a rolling periodic behavior making this test pointless. I was trying out something like envenom if CT bleed is up, but the damage of CT gets rolled into the next cast instead.

test 17.Targets = 3. Full rotation test. abilities used = CT,envenom,mutilate,fok,rupture. [CT if envenom buff up, envenom (prio over CT) no clip buff, fok if = crimson tempest buff up, muti if = envenom buff up]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nC1WzHdRpjPqbJTV/

test 17. comments. Same test as test 16 basically just prio with envenom over CT, insignificant difference.

test 18. Targets = 3. Full Rotational Test. Abilities used = Fok,crimson tempest,rupture. Talent used = Shadow reflection. [CT buff = clip]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mn3pKWQRGradHV2Z/

test 18. comments. This seems to be the most optimal fok rotation against 3 targets, I'm fairly confident this is the optimal 4 target rotation actually.

test 19.Targets = 3. Full Rotational Test. Abilities used = muti,CT,rupture. Talent used = shadow reflection. [CT Buff = clip]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/W3maLMD9dqzXBnpc/

test 19. comments. Not sure what the purpose of this test was investigate further.No results worth mentioning though.

test 20.Targets = 3. Full Rotational Test. Abilities used = muti,CT,rupture. [CT Buff = clip]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aBd9CNxpXyMR7gJk/

test 20 comments. Same as test 19.

test 21.Targets = 3. Rotational test. Abilities used = envenom,muti,rupture,fok. Talent used = No venom zest. [envenom=clip buff, muti if = envenom buff, fok if = no envenom buff]:
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/79BVWQLKaPDCrnXN/ + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/v8fLprFNztCH4qgK/

test 21. comments.

test 22.Targets = 3. Rotational test. Abilities used = envenom,muti,rupture. Talent used = No venom zest. [enveom=clip buff]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tD2Rrqz79KwcpJgk/ + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/C4ydDav63HtVRY1W/

test 22. comments.

test 23.Targets = 3. Full rotational test. Abilities used = rupture,envenom,mutilate. Talent used = shadow reflection. [envenom buff=clip]. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hL6vzmtM3VjdRFxk/

test 23. comments. Same rotation as test 14 only with shadow reflection instead of venom zest. Shadow reflection actually seems like it has a slight edge, these results show them to be pretty much exactly equal but with dps trinkets, temporary raid buffs on pull shadow reflection will pull ahead. I'm not sure if this is intended? feels like venom zest should be the go to talent for muti multidotting, but it doesn't seem like it atm. It will be interesting to see how death from above compares but atm it's not working properly.

test 24.Targets = 5. Full rotational test. Abilities used = rupture,fok. Talent used = anticipation.: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Mkb7Km6hVJQGYf2P

test 24. comments. Optimal rotation vs 5 targets, squeezing in CT doesn't come close to keeping ruptures up on 5 targets, with CT you can only keep it up on 4.

test 26.Targets = 5. Full rotational test. Abilities used = rupture,fok. Talent used = marked for death.: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/72RDkaWMxPG6bLqQ/

test 26. comments. Same as test 24. Difference is the talent which is insignificant, purpose was not to test the talent, I just wanted to test it again but anticipation not working.

test 27.Targets = 5. Full rotational test. Abilities used = rupture,muti,fok. Talent used = anticipation [muti=prio,fok every 12 sec to keep up DP].:http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BjhVnb3JAcx64Ra9

test 27. comments. This is clearly inferior to test 24.

test 28.Targets = 5. Full rotational test. Abilities used = rupture,fok. Talent used = shadow reflection.: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AzZBm2CTQMWkNnLR/

test 28. comments. Shadow reflection better again like in test 23 but on 5 targets. on 5 targets extra energy regen is pointless, you'll be gcd capped without venom zest.

test 29.Targets = 1. Full rotational tests: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4TRxW6rkVfdNCyb + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4TRxW6rkVfdNCyb + [url]http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jN4Jch7XV3TqbdLH + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6TfPJKxNArMmtq2Z/

test 29 comments.

So what to make of this.

It's obvious that keeping up rupture is incredibly strong, probably alot stronger than before. Not keeping it up on all targets shows to be a massive dps loss.
The max number of ruptures you actually can keep up while spamming fok is 5. this is not due to energy constraints but rather gcd constraints.
You could probably keep up more rupture's with mutilate instead, but the mutilating on 5 targets vs using fok shows to be a loss, and the gain from keeping up one more rupture on 6 targets would most likely not outweigh the damage loss from poisons and fok.

You seem to be gcd capped even without venom zest on 5 targets when doing multi rupturing, it's only a slight difference on 3 targets, you're nearly capped on 3 targets too. This made the talent venom zest pretty much wasted on 5 targets and you can't make out the difference in dps with shadow reflection vs venom zest on 3 targets and 5 targets. Death from above is not working properly so I could not test that.

Testing crimson tempest shows that it's better than envenom if fok spamming on 5 targets and 3 targets even if the CT bleed doesnt get to tick (only slight on 3 targets but significant difference vs 5 target), but fok spamming isn't optimal on 3 targets, mutilate is. So there's no use for crimson tempest on 3 targets. And vs 5 targets it's optimal to keep 5 ruptures up, you can't crimson tempest while keeping so many ruptures up.

Anyway my guess for optimal rotations on 3 targets: 5 cp rupture's (in a real situation lower cp rupture probably optimal because of mobs dieing quicker), weaving in envenoms and using mutilate, fok shows to be worse no matter what method I try on 3 targets. difference between venom zest and shadow reflection is not noticeable.

5 targets: Optimal here is 5 cp ruptures on 5 targets while spamming fok. venom zest seems to be completley wasted in this situation.

4 targets. My guess based on these tests is that its optimal to keep 4 ruptures up, spam fok and cast CT (even if the bleed doesn't get to do dmage it's better than envenom) when rupture is up on all targets.

How it feels: The energy regen is just abit over the top atm when multidotting, there's just way more than you can spend even without the venom zest talent (on 3 targets you're not constantly capping without venom zest but it still feels too fast) considering this is only pvp gear without any enchants it needs to be toned down abit.

New testing of ST rotation vs multi rupturing single target.

Putting up ruptures on all targets unless it says otherwise. Using talent venom zest unless it says otherwise. using 4 cp finishers when doing mutilate and 5 when casting fan of knives. Using marked for death unless it says otherwise (anticipation isn't working atm).

Test 29. ST rotation with different talents. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/L4TRxW6rkVfdNCyb + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jN4Jch7XV3TqbdLH + http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6TfPJKxNArMmtq2Z/


Test 30. ST rotation while keeping up deadly poison on all targets with fok and rupturing all targets with 5 cps. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ce=1&by=target

Comments: There's definitely a gain in single target dps from rupturing other targets, this wasn't even optimal play either seeing as I can't track poisons or rupture's on other targets with default ui (with focus yes, but there's 3 targets, and I didnt think of focus for initial testing ). I can imagine an improvement when doing this properly, anyway will update when I've tested with different talents.

- - - Updated - - -

I figured the ST increase might be just an effect of the venom zest talent. But further testing with no multi rupturing and only spreading poisons with either fok or target switching suggests otherwise.

Putting up ruptures on all targets unless it says otherwise. Using talent venom zest unless it says otherwise. using 4 cp finishers when doing mutilate and 5 when casting fan of knives. Using marked for death unless it says otherwise (anticipation isn't working atm).

Test 31. Targets = 3. Full rotational test. Abilities used = rupture,envenom,mutilate,fok. Talent used = Venom zest. [rupture=1target,fok if = no dp on all 3 targets, mutilate if = dp on all 3 targets, enveom = no clip]: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ce=1&by=target

Test 32. Targets = 3. Full rotational test. Abilities used = rupture,envenom,mutilate. Talent used = venom zest. [rupture=1target,switch targets and autoattack if = no dp debuff (no mutilate just auto attack to not waste damage), envenom = no clip.] : http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ce=1&by=target

Comments: Only keeping up poisons on 3 targets with the venom zest talent doesn't increase ST damage, but keeping rupture up aswell does.

Interesting discoveries so far:

When you are using fok CT is better/equal to envenom at just 3 targets even if the bleed doesn't get to tick at all. (given that you use fok with the CT buff ofcourse)

In my testing, single target dps is increased when you are multi rupturing on 3 targets with venom zest (maybe even without, need to test). Might be an increase with even more targets, have to test it further.

[iksparemarkamai]

thanks for providing all this bojos.

[Bernas]

Wow, you got a lot of work there... didnt have time to read everything but later I will.. and maybe test with my numbers.

[TeppeiSpeak]

I have no clue what you are doing for those single target parses (test 29) but I cannot get any where near those numbers with any build I use, especially the gear you are given with no enchants. I've tried a multistrike build, a mastery build and can't even keep above 20k. Really curious what your stats are and what your rotation was for test 29.

I can't really get warcraft logs to work properly because there are 30+ people on the test dummies. I don't see multi strike showing up on my skada which could bee the major issue.

[Deleted]

Great single target findings with the multi rupture and DP.

I've done extensive testing with all specs on 5 targets but not with 3. So you explain that rupture on 3 targets is better, but Muti beats out FoK in this case. But CT beats Envenom on 3 targets. So what have you findings concluded about 3 target testing? I guess there 3 options.

Option A: Rupture all targets, envenom filler.
Option B: Rupture all targets, CT filler.
Option C: Rupture all targets, FoK during CT buff only

[Deleted]

CT beats envenom when you are using fok and envenom beats CT when using mutilate but mutilate + envenom beats fok and CT.

What I've concluded so far is that just spamming mutilate and switching targets to keep DP up and keep rupture up beats any rotation with fok and CT in it. I figured fok might be stronger during no envenom buff up though, but testing suggests this is not the case. It could just be dps error aswell, but I doubt it.

CT + fok spamming and rupturing all targets wasn't far away tho, around a 1k difference. This would lead me to speculate that on 4 targets fok + keeping up ruptures on 4 targets while weaving in a crimson tempest when you aren't rupturing is superior to using mutilate.
If this is better below 35% I'm not sure though, my guess is that it's not.

At teppeiSpeak. I was using all the default gear, no changes. Well the rotation was pretty much the same as now, except that I didn't use vanish because it puts you out of combat and removes your debuffs etc, the one thing I put more emphasize on is casting as many mutilate's as possible during envenom buff due to the 30% damage increase when doing mutilate and dispatch with envenom buff.

With marked for death it seems possible to squeeze in maybe 8/10 mutilate's and dispatches in envenom buff, with anticipation talent 10/10 seems very possible.

The ST testing wasn't aimed at getting out the best results possible, these things are better answered with math, they were just baseline tests to compare to my aoe rotations.

[Deleted]

Without testing everything under the sun like above, we've come to similar thoughts that the 'traditional' rotations for ST and 3xTargets are slightly ahead too... unsurprisingly.

The only thing i consider clearly up for debate for right now on beta is 4+ targets, which i plan on looking at in the near future. Obviously that mainly means # of CPs/rupture and CT(if used).

[Deleted]

Yup, I do need to run some more tests with # of cps/rupture. These will have to wary in kill times, to simulate real situations. Haven't tested it before mostly due to addons, not having addons just makes it harder to time everything properly, so just using 5 cp finishers will be more clean and consistent for testing purposes.

I'm guessing a shorter fight might favour less cps used while a longer fight will favour 5 cps ruptures, reason for this would not only be rupture's getting wasted due to mobs dieing but your burst might also be lower because it takes longer to get all your rupture's up with 5 cp/ruptures, quick testing tonight shows otherwise tho, will post once I've looked through it abit more but from initial testing it doesn't seem like using lower cp ruptures has any advantage in burst (rather a slight disadvantage).

Based on testing on 3 target cleave it leads me in the direction that on 4 targets - fok spam, rupture's while squeezing in a ct is probably better than mutilate and rupture's while squeezing in envenoms.

The difference was only around 3% on 3 target testing, this might change below 35% when you can dispatch though, making it alot less clear what the optimal thing would be past 35%.

Edit just noticed you said 4+ targets. As for 5 target's I think it's pretty obvious that just rupturing all target's and using fok is superior, there's no room for CT. I didn't run any testing with squeezing in CT myself but I found this twitter page of someone who tested it http://potatorogue.wordpress.com/201...ssination-aoe/ it was very underwhelming compared to just keeping ruptures up on 5 targets, which is the maximum amount. You can't reach more with the gcd, squeezing in a CT while I didn't have anything to rupture was only possible once a minute or so for me.

Alot more target's than this I would say there's alot of questions that needs to be answered. And ofcourse burst / target's not living very long also needs to be investigated when it comes to using # of cps/ruptures.

[cynicalz]

Holy grail

[Deleted]

How does time alive play a role on these 5 target tests. Stuff like on Beastlord Darmak where the adds are down pretty quick. What do you think we should be doing?

[Wow]

How does time alive play a role on these 5 target tests. Stuff like on Beastlord Darmak where the adds are down pretty quick. What do you think we should be doing?

Having tested that fight it you don't have time for tab rupture and fok ct are joke you may as well just keep single target. But overall it depends if your group is killing the adds really fast or not.

[Deleted]

I tested the fight myself and was doing significantly more with an AOE cycle than single target. But I think there must be a point at which you want to CT occassionally instead of rupturing at different points of the fight.

[Xibu]

I would love to help out with testing sometime if you ever need another Rogue to do things with.

Sikx#1158 or Xibu/Sikx on US-Illidan

[Deleted]

@underz. Haven't really tested different durations much, well haven't been testing at all lately. My guess is that fok and multidotting with rupture and when mobs are very low you use CT and spam fok will yield the highest dps on that fight, common sense would dicate that you should use less cp# ruptures if the targets die quickly, it will all depend on your raid setup thought, they didn't burn down that fast when I tested it, 5 cp ruptures on adds just spawning didnt seem to clip much.

If you're looking from a progress perspective assassination aoe doesn't seem to be very strong compared to other classes, maybe it will balanced alot differently for release but I have a feeling our mass aoe won't be alot better than it was in mop, maybe combat could be strong on this fight tho but I doubt it. So if you're progressing and just put your highest aoe dps classes on the adds your most effective dps output will be to fok every 12 seconds to maintan deadly poison and multidot the adds with rupture while focusing single target dps on the boss, I haven't tested what's the breakpoint where multi rupture's weaken your ST dps, I'm guessing that boss rupture + 2 adds rupture is optimal tho considering you're pretty much energy capping when doing this, anymore seems to be a waste of energy if you're concered with ST dps, it's best to test the breakpoint before making any conclusion though.

#wow, adds dieing quickly shouldnt matter that much. The ct bleed is pretty weak anyway, what you're after for assa aoe is the big 30% increased poison damage buff that comes from pressing CT. And rupture isn't really an issue considering you can use lower cp ruptures, not to mention the fact that the increased energy regen from rupture multidotting atm is a ST dps increase.