Removal of fel flame (what are we supposed to cast now?)

[Deleted]

which part of "harder" don´t you understand? "easy mode" is harder then "hello kitty mode", but that doesn´t mean it´s hard

I'm not sure how one less button to push is harder

Now instead casting fel flame till you reposition you just reposition

[Ryme]

It's a general change across the board that caster's are losing the ability to cast while moving. I believe the design philosophy here is to close the gap between wanting to take a ranged and wanting to take a melee.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure how one less button to push is harder

Now instead casting fel flame till you reposition you just reposition

where exactly did I say that the increase of difficutly has anything to do with pushing less buttons? The "difficult" thing is to do the amount of DPS you need to beat an encounter, even when you can´t attack while moving. You need to minimize movement as much as possible instead of just brainless casting while moving. And thats where quick decisions are required. No matter what you do, you´ll never create a difficult rotation without adding hundrets of spells. The difficulty of a class is depending on making the right decisions in little time windows

[Nerraw]

It's a general change across the board that caster's are losing the ability to cast while moving. I believe the design philosophy here is to close the gap between wanting to take a ranged and wanting to take a melee.

Except they just gave Moonfire spamming back to boomkins two builds ago. The upfront damage is pretty much comparable to Fel Flame.

[Deleted]

It's a general change across the board that caster's are losing the ability to cast while moving. I believe the design philosophy here is to close the gap between wanting to take a ranged and wanting to take a melee.

Frostmage seems a bit of a difference, the have frostfirebolt instant, icelance instant (with now up to 3 charges) they have new novaspell instant, they have frostorb, iceflows. They could nearly keep up there entire rotation with a bit of planing ahead. All just while moving.

[Jessicka]

where exactly did I say that the increase of difficutly has anything to do with pushing less buttons? The "difficult" thing is to do the amount of DPS you need to beat an encounter, even when you can´t attack while moving. You need to minimize movement as much as possible instead of just brainless casting while moving. And thats where quick decisions are required. No matter what you do, you´ll never create a difficult rotation without adding hundrets of spells. The difficulty of a class is depending on making the right decisions in little time windows

Having Fel Flame or not doesn't change any of that, you still want to minimise movement. This isn't an argument about skill, it's a matter of 'class feel', and in respect to that, not having Fel Flame to cast feels like shit in every spec. Whatever anyone says about 'raids won't have as much movement', maybe not we've not seen all the fights; but I do know the dungeons I've tried have far more movement than anything I can remember doing for a long time in a 5 man (which is awesome more broadly speaking, but from a Warlock perspective isn't so fun).

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Frostmage seems a bit of a difference, the have frostfirebolt instant, icelance instant (with now up to 3 charges) they have new novaspell instant, they have frostorb, iceflows. They could nearly keep up there entire rotation with a bit of planing ahead. All just while moving.

Same with Fire Mage. Scorch hits for fuck all now, but you hardly need it and it's better to have it to cast than to derp around like a Warlock.

[Deleted]

Having Fel Flame or not doesn't change any of that, you still want to minimise movement.

Sure, you always want to use the "real" filler instead of felflame, but it´s a much higher sacrifice without beeing able to cast something while moving. That way it´s even more important to reduce movement. I´m also not really a fan of this whole movement thingie, but I guess it´s just cause I´m a bit spoiled after MoP and looking forward to master a "new" old challenge

[Jessicka]

Sure, you always want to use the "real" filler instead of felflame, but it´s a much higher sacrifice without beeing able to cast something while moving. That way it´s even more important to reduce movement. I´m also not really a fan of this whole movement thingie, but I guess it´s just cause I´m a bit spoiled after MoP and looking forward to master a "new" old challenge

Pretty ludicrous statement to be quite frank. Most movement, especially the movement FF covers is pretty much involuntary, unplanned and unplannable, otherwise you just don't do it because of your first sentence.

[Deleted]

Had a long diskussion with some guys in my guild. They all say we warlocks should shut up about that. Melees do this all the time, since years. Targetswitches to Mobs far away was always a situation where they could literaly do nothing other than run, same with some other bossmechanics where they were forced away from the boss.

makes me feel bad for them, but nevertheless a stupid change in gameplay to returne to the old model of turret casting. I played quite a few other MMO's and there the movment+casting is way more advanced and fun than in WoW. (except that they on the other hand lack interesting bosses and endcontent most). But all that is a different piece of paper. back to topic ^^

[PickleballAce]

It's a general change across the board that caster's are losing the ability to cast while moving. I believe the design philosophy here is to close the gap between wanting to take a ranged and wanting to take a melee.

In theory this was their goal.

In practice it's more like cutting the ability for Warlocks and Shaman to cast on the move and leaving everyone else the way they are. They've reverted changes to Boomkin and Mage mobility.

[Deleted]

Pretty ludicrous statement to be quite frank. Most movement, especially the movement FF covers is pretty much involuntary, unplanned and unplannable, otherwise you just don't do it because of your first sentence.

In case of the more experienced players maybe. But I see a lot of players moving way to much for savety reasons just because it doesn´t really hurt their dps anyway. The point is, you really need to know how much you need to walk to dodge something (not talking about instant voids ofc, but something like the ambers on paragons, where you should be out of the dangerzone before it hits the ground).
I agree that it´s not a that big thing and really depends on the coming bosses, but it´s still a step to "becoming harder to matser"

[The Kao]

Siegecrafter is not obsolete until 6.0.1. The new changes take effect in 6.0.0.

That's highly subjective. Generally Blizzard designs things to work with all new content, which bosses that were added in 5.4 aren't, even if we're still going to raid them after 6.0. The workaround usually is to overpower players so much compared to before the patch for that short period that the changes don't matter at all. Or in other words, you'll live through it and will then be presented content that was meant to be played with the redesign in mind.

[lunchbox2042]

Too bad Siegecrafter is obsolete content. Try Twin Ogron, Gruul, Beastlord, Butcher. Protip: it works.

So fights are going back to the stand still for 6 minutes and be bored out of your mind again?

[Jessicka]

In case of the more experienced players maybe. But I see a lot of players moving way to much for savety reasons just because it doesn´t really hurt their dps anyway. The point is, you really need to know how much you need to walk to dodge something (not talking about instant voids ofc, but something like the ambers on paragons, where you should be out of the dangerzone before it hits the ground).
I agree that it´s not a that big thing and really depends on the coming bosses, but it´s still a step to "becoming harder to matser"

The answer then is to just make FF hit less hard, just as they did with Scorch. Honestly, I have been a little uncomfortable with just how hard FF hits on live for a long while (in 5.1 there was a lot of questioning of SB Vs FF as filler before SB got buffed because DPET was so close); the real difference is in gameplay, having something to hit Vs not having something is huge. I've felt this on SPriest all expansion with SWP, not wanting to overwrite a strong proc, and thankfully that's getting fixed. Really does seem perverse to fix something for one class, and create the same issue for another.

[Deleted]

The answer then is to just make FF hit less hard, just as they did with Scorch.

I´m not saying it´s the perfect solution, but that it also got its good sides besides beeing a punch in every warlocks balls, but while I miss having an instant for low mob grinding for example, I also think the "no CD, no charges" design of felflame is a bit to much...not overpowered damagewise, it just doesn´t feel right

[Deleted]

In PvE it won't be much of an issue as it hasn't been in the past, you'll just have to learn to move the least possible again.
PvP is a different story with CC being toned down for mainly ranged but mobility of melee untouched so expect to go back to the SL/SL playstyle because you'll be trained all day.

[Grizelda]

Had a long diskussion with some guys in my guild. They all say we warlocks should shut up about that. Melees do this all the time, since years. Targetswitches to Mobs far away was always a situation where they could literaly do nothing other than run, same with some other bossmechanics where they were forced away from the boss.

Is that really still the case for Melee? It seems to me they have no shortage of gap closers and movement speed abilities for PvP and PvE.
That and Hit boxes are generally ginormous now.

And how often are Melee given the job, "Hey, go get that short-lived add 100 yards away."

[Jessicka]

Is that really still the case for Melee? It seems to me they have no shortage of gap closers and movement speed abilities for PvP and PvE.
That and Hit boxes are generally ginormous now.

And how often are Melee given the job, "Hey, go get that short-lived add 100 yards away."

Problem for DKs, but OTOH they're usually given Gorefiend's Grasp bitch duty instead. Enh Sham don't have it quite so easy either, Wolf is okay but it's no Charge/Displacer Beast/Shadowstep.

[Grizelda]

I don't want melee to NOT have those things.

I just want us (Destro lol) to keep Fel Flame.

[Deleted]

I agree that casters should feel some dps penalty when they move. On the other hand, not having anything to press while you move is boring.
There should be something you can press everytime you move.