12 year old MI boy charged as adult with murder, stabs 9 year old.

[Daez]

I support recognizing a mental psychopath as a mental psychopath. This is clear cut insanity here. He should not be tried as an adult or child; he should be locked up in a mental hospital.

There is no such thing as a mental psychopath. The term is derogatory. What there is conduct disorder and antisocial personality disorder. The kid is to young for antisocial personality disorder and it would take a full psychological assessment to determine if he meets the criteria for conduct disorder. You are not qualified to give that assessment. Crime is crime. Mental disorder is mental disorder. PERIOD!

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In sweden all that would happend to him is that social services would take care off him. Over the age off 15 he would have gotten like 2-3 years on a detention centre because you can not be charged at the age of 15 and below here. Pathetic rules i know but i dont agree on life sentence or whatever sentence he will get for a 12 year old. He need some serious punishment or help but life is a bit to much for a kid in that age.

I don't think anyone is talking life. Life is normally reserved for first degree murder. This kid will probably be convicted of voluntary manslaughter. I think there are to many mitigating circumstances to even get a murder 2 conviction (especially if they can't prove intent... which is sounds like they are murky on). The sentence for voluntary manslaughter is 15-20 years (normally with parole after 10).

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Literally nobody is saying let the 12 year old off without punishment. He's mentally disturbed and needs help.

Mentally deficient people who commit crimes should be sent to psychiatric care facilities, not prisons. They'd be eaten alive in prison.

I must have missed the point where you are a trained mental health professional. I am sure any attorney worth their weight that is handling this kids defense started out with a psych exam. If the kid would have been found unfit to stand trial or mentally ill he would have never been tried period (he would have been sent to a facility instead). The fact that he is being tried as an adult means he is more than likely not mentally ill.

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im gona disagree it seems to me children think they are above the law coz of these 2 seprate set of rules by having 1 set theres proberly be a lot less crime

Not to mention, if a minority killed a majority member of the population in a third world dictatorship the case would never make it to trial. The fact that we respect the rights of minorities is kind of what separates us from third world countries.

[Racthoh]

hate crime.

[Daez]

Since this child is 12, can we please take the picture down in the OP? Regardless of what he has done, a 12yo has the right to not have his picture plastered over the internet without his (parents) consent.

It was most likely part of the news story which means that it is already plastered all over the internet, and their are no legal protections that back up what you are saying. Its normally on the ethics of the paper itself. Now, you could argue its unethical, but I'm not sure I'd agree.

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His 17 11/12 year old psychotic kindergarten murderer wasn't an extreme case?

Unfortunately, it wasn't as far from the truth as it should be. The vast majority of mass murderers (school shooters) are juveniles after all.

[Leonnald]

All the people in this thread talking about how the 12 yr old needs to be helped and protected need to stop. You are the reason kids are like this. You are the reason kids do bad things. You let these kids do bad things and you don't punish them according to the severity of what they have done. You coddle children so much, they know they can do nearly anything and at worst they get sent to their room for a bit, with their TV and video games. Also my name is Tom, I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. About a mile NE of downtown, and only a few miles away from where this happened. I also know the family of the victim.

This is not a case of race, this is not a case of a young black man having a small amount of marijuana on him and going to jail (Which yes is a high amount of the younger jailed men. I am in fact white, and it bugs me too.) This is murder. That kid, MURDERED Michael. Putting him in juvy for 6 years, is not what that 'kid' needs. He needs to be gone from society. He had his chance, and he made the decision.

I won't deny that the way this crime happened makes me believe the 12 year old in fact has many mental issues. However, that does not in anyway excuse his actions. If he is found mentally unstable/has a mental disorder, fine, lock him in a facility forever.

So while you sit here and run your mouth about protecting that 12 year old boy, don't forget what he did, not just to Michael, but to Michaels family. And be careful not to trip over the the dead boy you keep tiptoeing around.

-Tom

[Daez]

Does it really fucking matter why he did it?

This "charging as a child" is bullshit. If you commit a capital offense then you should be charged just as any adult would be charged. I don't give a shit. When i was 12 i knew you couldn't murder people. Shoot him in the middle of his face for all I care.

Yeah. It kind of does matter since the entire American justice system (juvenile and adult) is based partly on intent. The justice system takes all factors into account and weighs them against each other. Intent has always been a mitigating circumstance. There is a huge difference between killing someone because you want to kill all white children and killing someone because you were doped up on some medication that has been known to lead to violence (for example).

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This child has the cognitive reasoning behind what he has done to a certain extent, confirmed by him calling the police and turning himself in. I have no sympathy for humans and he should be tried as an adult and sentenced to death. There is no reason that he could give to explain why he stabbed the other child. Plenty of people have been called names, picked on, bullied, but that does not warrant murder. Too bad our society falls apart more and more everyday. An eye for an eye.

Juveniles cannot be given the death penalty. That has been ruled on by the Supreme Court of the United States. I'll give you one guess where that case came from.

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My god, trying a 12 yr old as an adult.. Its tragic and that boy is probably troubled, but I'm glad I live in a Civilized corner of the world where this would be unthinkable, and the prison system isn't run for profit.

If you think the American prison system (which normally costs us more to house a convict for life than it would cost to send them to Harvard) is completely a for profit system then you have been watching to much Orange is the New Black.

[Unholyground]

If anything he should just have mandatory psych evaluations until hes an adult.

[Daez]

What good is it to have laws that govern the sentencing of minors if you're not going to actually use them? This just seems to be another case of racism in my view.

That's not to say of course what he did wasn't sickening and wrong, but the system seems pretty messed up when you look at the figures and statistics.

They are being used. Those laws also govern when someone should be tried as a minor and when they should be tried as an adult. Its a very strict set of criteria to try someone that is a juvenile as an adult and its not just... he has black skin try him as an adult... derp!

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It's racism to want someone charged with a life sentence for murdering someone else? You people will literally call racism for everything where a minority is involved. Someone is dead, a 9 year old that did nothing to deserve death is now dead, and you are here calling racism for wanting the killer punished.

He did something. He taunted his white privilege and acted like the white devil. That little sainted 12 year old that should just be given a few weeks in home detention to think about what he did just performed an exorcism on that white devil and should be considered a hero.

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This is stupid, Just sounds like the usual revenge,
I just don't get that revenge thirst the American justice system is built around.

He's a child, sure what happened was bad but completely ruining someone's life for a mistake is bad.

Maybe you don't get it because the American justice system isn't at all built around revenge. Its why we have so many different crimes that are all related to taking someone's life (everything from murder 1 to involuntary manslaughter). In a revenge system we would just shoot everyone that is known to commit a violent act against another person and be done with it.

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This is a new one. We don't get to pick and choose who we are molded by, especially during formative years. It's possible that our juvenile detention system won't fail him, and nobody is saying he shouldn't go to a juvenile detention facility. What worries us is after the juvee system gives him over to the adult prison system. All evidence points to most childhood offenders not recommitting as adults.

Actually, we do get to pick who are friends are and who molds us. Why aren't you a violent gang member drug addict murderer? Maybe because you chose a group of friends who thought that might be a little uncool. Please show me the statistics about juvenile offenders not reoffending as an adult because I simply don't believe you at all... Actually, its a proven link for most antisocial personality disorders (what people normally think of as sociopaths) that there was conduct disorder before that diagnosis (and conduct disorder begins before the age of 15). Crime wise, I would have to say that the vast majority of criminals that start young never stop... please, please show me the evidence to the contrary... I mean, there might be something I missed with a concentration in justice studies on my bachelors and most of the course work in counseling (including a course in juvenile counseling) being completed that you have great knowledge of!

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charge him with murder. too bad it didnt happen in a capital punishment state.

At the very least he should be charged as a adult and should rot in a cell.

Not only do you have to be a vile person to do this, but at that age? Just goes to show that that kid should never see freedom again. I fully support him being charged as an adult. He thought he was big and bad when he killed a child 3 years his junior, so he can be big and bad in prison where he can be with others the likes of him.

I'm all for trying him as an adult because I think 9 years is a little light of a sentence for murder. However, I don't think he deserves to rot for the rest of his life because he killed someone. He made a very stupid mistake which he probably didn't think through until after it was over. That is exactly how crime happens for every adult. But, to say that they once they are tarnished goods they are of no longer any value is kind of insane.

[IIamaKing]

Not sure how I feel about this.

[Daez]

everyone seems to be missing the point... this kid killed another kid... he doesnt deserve any modicum of leniency at all, in fact if the police just beat his ass to death in the street it would have been ok with me and this issue would have been handled and over.

I'm not sure what kind of state you are proposing, but I am damn glad that I will never live in it. You seriously want the police to beat 12 year old kids to death for murder before they even get a trial? Maybe you are the one who should go through a psych review.

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So while you sit here and run your mouth about protecting that 12 year old boy, don't forget what he did, not just to Michael, but to Michaels family. And be careful not to trip over the the dead boy you keep tiptoeing around.

I will apologize if this hits to close to home, but you can't possibly expect them to remember there was an actual victim here, they are to busy making excuses and defenses for the perpetrator just because he was black. I wonder if the same courtesy would be extended by the black community if the victim were black and perpetrator were white.

[Tulune]

All the people in this thread talking about how the 12 yr old needs to be helped and protected need to stop. You are the reason kids are like this. You are the reason kids do bad things. You let these kids do bad things and you don't punish them according to the severity of what they have done. You coddle children so much, they know they can do nearly anything and at worst they get sent to their room for a bit, with their TV and video games. Also my name is Tom, I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. About a mile NE of downtown, and only a few miles away from where this happened. I also know the family of the victim.

This is not a case of race, this is not a case of a young black man having a small amount of marijuana on him and going to jail (Which yes is a high amount of the younger jailed men. I am in fact white, and it bugs me too.) This is murder. That kid, MURDERED Michael. Putting him in juvy for 6 years, is not what that 'kid' needs. He needs to be gone from society. He had his chance, and he made the decision.

I won't deny that the way this crime happened makes me believe the 12 year old in fact has many mental issues. However, that does not in anyway excuse his actions. If he is found mentally unstable/has a mental disorder, fine, lock him in a facility forever.

So while you sit here and run your mouth about protecting that 12 year old boy, don't forget what he did, not just to Michael, but to Michaels family. And be careful not to trip over the the dead boy you keep tiptoeing around.

-Tom

Welcome to MMO champ, where people don't give a flying fuck about the victims and love to coddle and make excuses for the poor criminals.

[AmericanJustice]

If you are OLD enough to do the crime you are OLD enough to serve the time.

Life without parole for this kid. I don't care how much remorse he feels. We don't need re-offenders. Murderers who are released are amoungst the highest re-offend rates. If you are willing to plan to kill, you are likely willing to do the other crimes.

Murder = LIFE without parole mandatory sentencing

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Welcome to MMO champ, where people don't give a flying fuck about the victims and love to coddle and make excuses for the poor criminals.

Tell me about it..... I've never seen anything quite like this. And I bet at least 2/3ds of everyone who voted infavor of life sentence for the 16 year old attempted murderer wanted him to have a parole date.

[vaeevictiss]

All the people in this thread talking about how the 12 yr old needs to be helped and protected need to stop. You are the reason kids are like this. You are the reason kids do bad things. You let these kids do bad things and you don't punish them according to the severity of what they have done. You coddle children so much, they know they can do nearly anything and at worst they get sent to their room for a bit, with their TV and video games. Also my name is Tom, I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. About a mile NE of downtown, and only a few miles away from where this happened. I also know the family of the victim.

This is not a case of race, this is not a case of a young black man having a small amount of marijuana on him and going to jail (Which yes is a high amount of the younger jailed men. I am in fact white, and it bugs me too.) This is murder. That kid, MURDERED Michael. Putting him in juvy for 6 years, is not what that 'kid' needs. He needs to be gone from society. He had his chance, and he made the decision.

I won't deny that the way this crime happened makes me believe the 12 year old in fact has many mental issues. However, that does not in anyway excuse his actions. If he is found mentally unstable/has a mental disorder, fine, lock him in a facility forever.

So while you sit here and run your mouth about protecting that 12 year old boy, don't forget what he did, not just to Michael, but to Michaels family. And be careful not to trip over the the dead boy you keep tiptoeing around.

-Tom

Not specifically this case, but of course its not a case of race. Its never a race crime unless the victim is anything but white.

Yeah. It kind of does matter since the entire American justice system (juvenile and adult) is based partly on intent. The justice system takes all factors into account and weighs them against each other. Intent has always been a mitigating circumstance. There is a huge difference between killing someone because you want to kill all white children and killing someone because you were doped up on some medication that has been known to lead to violence (for example).

I understand that, simply dont agree with it at all. There are really only a few things i dont agree with. One of them is the whole "charged as a child" or "charged as an adult". It should just be "charged". The only variable should be whether it was intended or negligent. Another thing i dont like is how people can plead insanity and automatically have a limited sentence and cannot face the death penalty. That is bullshit.

My new one i hate is how women can be forced to have c-sections and or forced other medications without their consent and the judges just stand by the doctor. The one that i read recently where a doctor damn near knocked the woman out, gave her a c-section from hip to hip (normally a 4 inch incision) and put a 2" cut on the babys face in the process. There was nothing they could do and the hospital and subsequently the judge stood behind the doctor because they are a fucking doctor.

Granted that is a whole different topic, im simply saying the justice system is far from perfect.

So we charge this little shit as a child, put him through some battery of brainwashing and mental therapy that may or may not work and let him walk by the time hes 20. He may or may not go kill someone else.

[AmericanJustice]

If anything he should just have mandatory psych evaluations until hes an adult.

Wrong, life without parole is a just sentence. Murderers cannot be rehabilitated, rapists, maybe, assaulter, maybe, but murderers there is no evidence that any of them have been rehabilitated.

[Deleted]

No, I'm saying the fact that a minor is being charged as an adult, and the statistics showing that in that state there is a vast majority of black minors being charged as adults, is racist.

It's only racist if an equal proportion of, or more white children charged with the same offences in similar situations are being charged as minors.

[AmericanJustice]

everyone seems to be missing the point... this kid killed another kid... he doesnt deserve any modicum of leniency at all, in fact if the police just beat his ass to death in the street it would have been ok with me and this issue would have been handled and over.

yeah cause street justice works... sure sure...

[Mayhem]

aaand this shit again, if you´re old enough to do the crime yada yada

but only crime, everything else you´re obviously not old enough

naked people, nope! alcohol, hell no! smoking, hahaha! voting, are you insane? but if you´re a criminal, you´re ass is up for judgement as if you were an adult

inconsistency ahoi

[AmericanJustice]

aaand this shit again, if you´re old enough to do the crime yada yada

but only crime, everything else you´re obviously not old enough

naked people, nope! alcohol, hell no! smoking, hahaha! voting, are you insane? but if you´re a criminal, you´re ass is up for judgement as if you were an adult

inconsistency ahoi

HOLY CHRIST from the age of 4 I FUCKING KNEW murder was wrong, the kid is literally 3 times my age back in 1990 holy wtf???? The reason why they cannot drink alchohol is cause it causes much more damage to their brains than kids, voting? You think kids have the ability to vote? talk to the average 12 year old and see what happens...

Oh and btw, murderers DO re-offend on release.

inconsistency ahoi

Yeah cause not everything is a giant blanket.

[Deleted]

Oh and btw, murderers DO re-offend on release.

So do many criminals involved in every other crime you listed yet you believe that only murderers cannot be rehabilitated for some arbitrary reason.

[Chrysia]

It's only racist if an equal proportion of, or more white children charged with the same offences in similar situations are being charged as minors.

And, according to the statistics, this is true. White children are only tried as adults in I think it was 20% of cases, blacks about 80%, and hispanics about 70%.

[Deleted]

And, according to the statistics, this is true. White children are only tried as adults in I think it was 20% of cases, blacks about 80%, and hispanics about 70%.

Now that certainly does imply there is some racism present in the system. Are we sure these are similar cases though?