European immigration

[Deleted]

Just read the 'Executive Summary' Mooneye. The document suggests that immigration will result in a net fiscal surplus. Was that your point?

[Deleted]

Just read the 'Executive Summary' Mooneye. The document suggests that immigration will result in a net fiscal surplus. Was that your point?

Money isn't everything.

If it persists over a long period of time, it may radically alter the cultural, ethnic, racial and political character of this country. It may also be disruptive and undermine social cohesion, with negative implications for national identity and democratic governance.

Also:

Assuming the extra workers were productively employed, the result would be
an appreciably faster growth in total GDP than would otherwise be the case.
The effect on GDP per capita would be marginal

Marginal effect.

It also creates a pyramid-like effect on the system, in which you have to take more and more and even more people.

Net migration at the current rate would also have a rejuvenating effect on the national population and increase the share of this pop ulation who are of working age. However, these benefits would be modest and once achieved they could only be maintained throug h further net migration into the indefinite future.

It's also creating a braindrain effect:

Controls over migration from poor countries should be designed in such a way as to promote their welfare and economic development. Migration policy towards these countries should be seen as a complement to the official aid policy and not as a means of enriching ourselves at their expense.

Then there's this:

The fiscal impact of migration depends on the types of immigrant concerned and their insertion into the local economy. Highly educated, skilled or talented immigrants, provided they gain suitable employment, normally make a positive fiscal contribution. They pay more in taxes than they absorb in government expenditure. Such migrants come disproportionately, though not exclusively, from developed countries. Even unskilled immigrants may make a positive fiscal contribution provided they get jobs and do not displace local workers, and provided they and their families do not make large demands on the welfare state. At the opposite end of the spectrum are migrants who receive public support but do not pay tax because they are without gainful employment. Many asylum seekers or married women from developing countries are in this category. So, too, are the children and aged relatives of working migrants.

[Ninepenny]

Maybe France, USA, Italy and Spain should adopt some of the Israel's attitude and policies - these guys are ruthless when it comes to immigration (especially illegal).

[Sledfang]

Maybe France, USA, Italy and Spain should adopt some of the Israel's attitude and policies - these guys are ruthless when it comes to immigration (especially illegal).

Or we could address the problem at the source, by strengthening borders, preventing further mass & illegal immigration. We cant even take care of the people we have.

[Deleted]

Coupled with the reasons above, one has to note that the UK's official language is English, thus many immigrants already knows the language when they get there, in contrast to for example Swedish which I bet is hardly heard in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Don't the majority of Swedes speak English fluently?

Just curious that's all, because in the U.K we're buggered on that front; We tend to only speak English, and a second language has never been first in our minds.

[Deleted]

"The effect on GDP per capita would be marginal" is exactly my point. This is something that is barely negatively affecting people (who aren't racists) and everyone I know is going nuts about it.

[Deleted]

Don't the majority of Swedes speak English fluently?

Just curious that's all, because in the U.K we're buggered on that front; We tend to only speak English, and a second language has never been first in our minds.

Not the older generation. If you look at people below 30, then, yeah. But close to nobody would hire someone who can't speak Swedish.

[Deleted]

Maybe France, USA, Italy and Spain should adopt some of the Israel's attitude and policies - these guys are ruthless when it comes to immigration (especially illegal).

Oh yeah, intense racism and targeting of migrant populations solves everything.

/Sarcasm off

[Deleted]

"The effect on GDP per capita would be marginal" is exactly my point. This is something that is barely negatively affecting people (who aren't racists) and everyone I know is going nuts about it.

It shouldn't be praised as some kind of god divine economical benefit when it's marginal at best.

[Deleted]

Not the older generation. If you look at people below 30, then, yeah. But close to nobody would hire someone who can't speak Swedish.

Yeah, i remember watching a vlog of a digital artist who moved from Ukraine or someplace to Sweden; Back home he was making a decent wage to rent his own apartment in the city, in Sweden he was forced to drag by on his savings and handouts as a dishwasher.

He only spoke English and his native language, and iirc he got fired after his boss found out about his vlog.

[Deleted]

Don't the majority of Swedes speak English fluently?

Just curious that's all, because in the U.K we're buggered on that front; We tend to only speak English, and a second language has never been first in our minds.

Yes, but businesses want people who speak Swedish.

[Deleted]

Yes, but businesses want people who speak Swedish.

Not only that, some business go as far as wanting people to have a specific accent, like a car sales company in Stockholm not wanting people with a scanian accent.

[Deleted]

This is something that is barely negatively affecting people (who aren't racists) and everyone I know is going nuts about it.

The problem isn't the fact that immigrants cost us money.

It's the fact that they drag their shitty 3rd world culture that drove their respective home countries to the fucking ruin that they are nowadays and try to ruin their new home with that same bull.

[cFortyfive]

Wow not even two pages and there it is - Sweden.

It's the fact that they drag their shitty 3rd world culture that drove their respective home countries to the fucking ruin that they are nowadays and try to ruin their new home with that same bull.

Those damn Japanese immigrants ruining our culture around here !

[Deleted]

The problem isn't the fact that immigrants cost us money.

It's the fact that they drag their shitty 3rd world culture that drove their respective home countries to the fucking ruin that they are nowadays and try to ruin their new home.

Yeah, he just blatantly ignored that part of what I linked.

If it persists over a long period of time, it may radically alter the cultural, ethnic, racial and political character of this country. It may also be disruptive and undermine social cohesion, with negative implications for national identity and democratic governance.

But that surely is not a problem because it's a marginal economic benefit!

[Deleted]

Yeah, i remember watching a vlog of a digital artist who moved from Ukraine or someplace to Sweden; Back home he was making a decent wage to rent his own apartment in the city, in Sweden he was forced to drag by on his savings and handouts as a dishwasher.

He only spoke English and his native language, and iirc he got fired after his boss found out about his vlog.

Sweden has a big problem with immigrants with good degrees getting lousy jobs. Swedish businesses have too little knowledge of foreign degrees in order to be sure people are actually qualified for Swedish jobs.

[Deleted]

Completely agree, and no one in this thread praised immigration in this way. But neither should it be lauded as the new apocalypse when the negative effects are marginal or completely subjective nonsense about national identity and cultural decline.

[Ninepenny]

Oh yeah, intense racism and targeting of migrant populations solves everything.

/Sarcasm off

If am not mistaken, they recently deported something like 50k africans to Uganda, reinforced their border with Egypt and made it known that illegals won't get anything in Israel by pretending to be refugees and illegally crossing the border. No philosophical discussions about multiculturalism, integration and other BS. Done.

[Deleted]

The problem isn't the fact that immigrants cost us money.

It's the fact that they drag their shitty 3rd world culture that drove their respective home countries to the fucking ruin that they are nowadays and try to ruin their new home with that same bull.

Something tells me you haven't had much contact with immigrants.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow not even two pages and there it is - Sweden.

Those damn Japanese immigrants ruining our culture around here !

We should just create a new term for these situation - Swedejacked perhaps?

[Deleted]

Completely agree, and no one in this thread praised immigration in this way. But neither should it be lauded as the new apocalypse when the negative effects are marginal or completely subjective nonsense about national identity and cultural decline.

What part of undermining social cohesion and negative implications for democracy did you not understand? National identity and culture are important to people, I dare say more important than an economical marginal benefit.