Fast & Easy content being preferred

[Vaelorian]

Someone else said something similar but I have seen this very sentiment almost everywhere in the game now apart from heroic raiding, challengemodes and PvP:

"I am happy with feature X because it is fast and easy and I get valor points." And they say this as a point to prove they enjoy something.

To split this comment into a few features:

1. LFR is fast and easy and you get valor points, not to mention gear upgrades.
So LFR is enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with. You also could be lucky and get gear handed to you. So this is fun?

2. scenario's (normal/heroic) are fast and easy and you get valor points, not to mention if lucky, some gear upgrades.
So scenario's are enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with. You also could be lucky and get gear handed to you. So this is fun?

3. dungeons (normal/heroic) are fast and easy and you get valor points.
So dungeons are enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with.

My view that this idea that "fast and easy is enjoyable" is wrong and backwards, because why are you playing this game?
My bet is that if the valor points were taken away or reduced by a lot, you'd be saying dailies are enjoyable in this game, right? Because then dailies provide you with a lot more valor vs these other 3 features on a more efficient basis and they are fast and easy too.

Why do I often see people on this very forum, saying they enjoy fast and easy when it is the valor points and chance on gear that make them go do certain features?

So my conclusion based on that is that it is not the feature itself, it is the promise of GEARING UP FAST AND EFFICIENT. Not the journey to do so.

Why are you putting up with that? Why not ask Blizzard for "longer and harder content" but while you're at it, also ask if they up the valorpoints and or chance to get gear?

Atleast you'll enjoy your playtime more.

I understand not everyone is asking for harder content. Hell I am even sure there are people who feel the current content is at the right place right now. I could not imagine why, but I'll not pretend these people do not exist.

When did the journey became unimportant vs the goal?

[Blufossa]

Someone else said something similar but I have seen this very sentiment almost everywhere in the game now apart from heroic raiding, challengemodes and PvP:

"I am happy with feature X because it is fast and easy and I get valor points." And they say this as a point to prove they enjoy something.

To split this comment into a few features:

1. LFR is fast and easy and you get valor points, not to mention gear upgrades.
So LFR is enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with. You also could be lucky and get gear handed to you. So this is fun?

2. scenario's (normal/heroic) are fast and easy and you get valor points, not to mention if lucky, some gear upgrades.
So scenario's are enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with. You also could be lucky and get gear handed to you. So this is fun?

3. dungeons (normal/heroic) are fast and easy and you get valor points.
So dungeons are enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with.

My view that this idea that "fast and easy is enjoyable" is wrong and backwards, because why are you playing this game?
My bet is that if the valor points were taken away or reduced by a lot, you'd be saying dailies are enjoyable in this game, right? Because then dailies provide you with a lot more valor vs these other 3 features on a more efficient basis and they are fast and easy too.

Why do I rarely see people on this very forum, saying they enjoy fast and easy when it is the valor points and chance on gear that make them go do certain features?

So my conclusion based on that is that it is not the feature itself, it is the promise of GEARING UP FAST AND EFFICIENT. Not the journey to do so.

Why are you putting up with that? Why not ask Blizzard for "longer and harder content" but while you're at it, also ask if they up the valorpoints and or chance to get gear?

Atleast you'll enjoy your playtime more.

I understand not everyone is asking for harder content. Hell I am even sure there are people who feel the current content is at the right place right now. I could not imagine why, but I'll not pretend these people do not exist.

When did the journey became unimportant vs the goal?

Because I don't want my favorite long time MMO to become job #3. (I'm a part time working housewife, so no thanks.)

[fixx]

When did the journey became unimportant vs the goal?

You missed the big picture totally.

Journey in WoW and all other MMORPG of it's style is done once when you complete all lore content. But because the longevity of this subscription model is based on repetition and grinding, people want that grinding to be as easy and fast as possible to reach their goal of gear cap (until next piece of content with new journey in lore and new goal in gear).

[Deleted]

I think you misunderstand the people who say that.

Sure, there are those who don't want a challenge, and for those I can only ask "Why are you playing a game then instead of...I don't know, sleeping?"

But for most of these people, your opening statement goes more like this (If they bothered to speak in long sentences): "I am happy with feature X because it is fast and easy and I get valor points and the game offers me the option to do it in this way."

That's the important part. Most people don't mind a challenge, but most people are also just humans, and it is in our nature to be efficient in the spending of our resources (generally speaking) including time. So when I have two ways to the same goal, and one is easier than the other, why walk the extra mile for no benefit? My point is, the people are less to blame, than the game they play.

[Vaelorian]

Because I don't want my favorite long time MMO to become job #3. (I'm a part time working housewife, so no thanks.)

Right so let's say that they would double the amount of valor and make the (example) dungeons take twice as long due to perhaps bigger dungeons and higher difficulty. You would get the same amount of valor for your time played, but would have a (imo) better time playing. I am sure that you don't always have time to play 40 min (instead of the current 20 min a dungeon could take). You could do other things when you don't have 40 min to spare in WoW.

[Ryme]

The problem is due to lack of a continuous difficulty curve, pushing people into the grind situation, no one likes grind so the easiest method to reduce the grind and flatten the difficulty curve becomes the path of least resistance.

[Vaelorian]

You missed the big picture totally.

Journey in WoW and all other MMORPG of it's style is done once when you complete all lore content. But because the longevity of this subscription model is based on repetition and grinding, people want that grinding to be as easy and fast as possible to reach their goal of gear cap (until next piece of content with new journey in lore and new goal in gear).

There is a journey in every dungeon/scenario/raid every single time you repeat that same content. Why? Because the same stuff doesn't always happen. You might be with different players. Someone might fuck up. So no, the lore-thing you are trying to shove this into isn't valid. Who said anything about lore anyway?

- - - Updated - - -

I think you misunderstand the people who say that.

Sure, there are those who don't want a challenge, and for those I can only ask "Why are you playing a game then instead of...I don't know, sleeping?"

But for most of these people, your opening statement goes more like this (If they bothered to speak in long sentences): "I am happy with feature X because it is fast and easy and I get valor points and the game offers me the option to do it in this way."

That's the important part. Most people don't mind a challenge, but most people are also just humans, and it is in our nature to be efficient in the spending of our resources (generally speaking) including time. So when I have two ways to the same goal, and one is easier than the other, why walk the extra mile for no benefit? My point is, the people are less to blame, than the game they play.

No I understand perfectly that people always go for the most efficient way of playing. But the question here is, do they enjoy playing that way?

If a chest in your capital contained heroic 25 man gear for free. I am certain no one would be bothered doing ANY of the 3 features more then once. Why bother? The chest would be popular though. So because it is popular is is enjoyable?

So by your and my logic: If easy feature gains you 1000 valor and takes 20 min and a harder feature gives you 3000 valor and takes 40 min, what feature is the more efficient?

[Moradim]

I agree, but a lot of people prefer the "fast food" style of gameplay. noone wants to work towards a goal, they would rather get immediate gratification via LFR or whatever. before, raiding was something you had to work towards, not something you could AFK to gear in. i'd love to see a return to how things used to be, but it's probably too late for that now: people expect stuff to be handed to them.

[Vaelorian]

The problem is due to lack of a continuous difficulty curve, pushing people into the grind situation, no one likes grind so the easiest method to reduce the grind and flatten the difficulty curve becomes the path of least resistance.

Or they could make the grind more versatile or less needed.

I mean if I needed to grind 10 of X on the easy mode needed for making a weapon and I would need 2 of X on the higher difficulty grinds for making that same weapon what would you choose?

[Pull My Finger]

"longer and harder content"

Why would I want longer and harder content? You seem to assume that these two attributes automatically translate into "good" and "good".

[Deleted]

Because I don't want my favorite long time MMO to become job #3. (I'm a part time working housewife, so no thanks.)

There is no problem with that. However, there is a problem if you still want to be rewarded the same benefits as a player who spends 5h a day.

[Vaelorian]

Why would I want longer and harder content? You seem to assume that these two attributes automatically translate into "good" and "good".

Alright I'll bite: You want me to write down EXACTLY what I want? More dynamic features/encounters? More intuitive UI? Better synergy in terms of skills vs other classes? Etc etc... You know what that package comes down to for people who cannot be bothered to read or write all that? Longer and harder content. Tbh my "longer and harder" content is about as vague as your "good" content.

[Pull My Finger]

There is no problem with that. However, there is a problem if you still want to be rewarded the same benefits as a player who spends 5h a day.

However, since that isn't the case and never has been in this game, I wonder why you're bringing it up.

- - - Updated - - -

Alright I'll bite: You want me to write down EXACTLY what I want? More dynamic features/encounters? More intuitive UI? Better synergy in terms of skills vs other classes? Etc etc... You know what that package comes down to for people who cannot be bothered to read or write all that? Longer and harder content.

Was that supposed to be some kind of a joke post or what? Because it doesn't make any sense at all.

Or perhaps you could explain what UI design and talent balancing has to do with, uhm, longer and harder content.

[ThunderTaco]

1. LFR is fast and easy and you get valor points, not to mention gear upgrades.
So LFR is enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with. You also could be lucky and get gear handed to you. So this is fun?

LFR is anything but fast and easy, having to deal with 14 70k- DPS players is really difficult, even yesterday, I wiped on many bosses while trying to do my legendary cloack on my 5th alt. Players still don't know the strat (Someone tried to convince me that Nazgrim summons more adds depending on his rage) and just want to be carried. I found it more difficult to carry LFR groups than doing heroic mode with groups that only clear normal.

2. scenario's (normal/heroic) are fast and easy and you get valor points, not to mention if lucky, some gear upgrades.
So scenario's are enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with. You also could be lucky and get gear handed to you. So this is fun?

This is what scenarios are for me, easy way to get fast valor points. Not saying that everything should be easy, but one quick way to get valor points is fine for me.

3. dungeons (normal/heroic) are fast and easy and you get valor points.
So dungeons are enjoyable because it gets you points to buy and upgrade gear with.

Heroic dungeons were a bit "challenging" (I said a bit) at the start of MoP, the problem is that our gear upgrades quickly while the dungeon doesn't scale, and again, for people that like challenge, there is challenge mode which is quite popular seeing all the transmogged players.

My view that this idea that "fast and easy is enjoyable" is wrong and backwards, because why are you playing this game?
My bet is that if the valor points were taken away or reduced by a lot, you'd be saying dailies are enjoyable in this game, right? Because then dailies provide you with a lot more valor vs these other 3 features on a more efficient basis and they are fast and easy too.

Why do I often see people on this very forum, saying they enjoy fast and easy when it is the valor points and chance on gear that make them go do certain features?

So my conclusion based on that is that it is not the feature itself, it is the promise of GEARING UP FAST AND EFFICIENT. Not the journey to do so.

Why are you putting up with that? Why not ask Blizzard for "longer and harder content" but while you're at it, also ask if they up the valorpoints and or chance to get gear?

Atleast you'll enjoy your playtime more.

I understand not everyone is asking for harder content. Hell I am even sure there are people who feel the current content is at the right place right now. I could not imagine why, but I'll not pretend these people do not exist.

When did the journey became unimportant vs the goal?

There is content that is difficult in the game, there is also content that is easy, people play what they enjoy.

My warlock clears heroic SoO to farm mounts, my hunter does some heroic boss and normal garrosh to get heriloom, my dk and monk are finishing their cloack, I could start gearing my druid or shaman through LFR if I had the courage.

Point is that there is content for every level of skill/gear, and I don't have a problem with that. I still find things to do after a year of no real "new content".

[Vaelorian]

However, since that isn't the case and never has been in this game, I wonder why you're bringing it up.

Was that supposed to be some kind of a joke post or what? Because it doesn't make any sense at all.

Or perhaps you could explain what UI design and talent balancing has to do with, uhm, longer and harder content.

Talent balancing? Are you deliberatly trying to put words into my mouth I did not say?
You do realise what synergy is right? In terms of what I wrote is means: Skills of class A working with or enhancing skills of class B.
This obviously hasn't much to do (same as the UI) with longer and harder content, but is a list of things I want implemented. Maybe I should have left it at "dynamic features/encounters". But thats just as vague as longer and harder content"

Coming back to it. I shouldn't have bitten at all. Now you're just taking my post apart on semantics. Nice. Maybe try to understand what it is I am saying instead. Same as your reply to Sorzzara. It just screams: Let me lure you into a debate and then I'll take your post apart and derail it.

[fixx]

There is a journey in every dungeon/scenario/raid every single time you repeat that same content. Why? Because the same stuff doesn't always happen. You might be with different players. Someone might fuck up.

Doing the same instance for the 50th time is not gonna turn into different experience if you have fire or arcane mage on your team as third dps.

So no, the lore-thing you are trying to shove this into isn't valid. Who said anything about lore anyway?

Journey is experiencing the story, everything else is just grinding. And it's the grinding part we want fast and easy.

[Vaelorian]

LFR is anything but fast and easy, having to deal with 14 70k- DPS players is really difficult, even yesterday, I wiped on many bosses while trying to do my legendary cloack on my 5th alt. Players still don't know the strat (Someone tried to convince me that Nazgrim summons more adds depending on his rage) and just want to be carried. I found it more difficult to carry LFR groups than doing heroic mode with groups that only clear normal.

I am sorry you had this experience. But it is rarely mine. Sure there are people like that but mostly the runs go relatively smooth without wipes.

This is what scenarios are for me, easy way to get fast valor points. Not saying that everything should be easy, but one quick way to get valor points is fine for me.

what about a harder but more efficient way to get valor points?

Heroic dungeons were a bit "challenging" (I said a bit) at the start of MoP, the problem is that our gear upgrades quickly while the dungeon doesn't scale, and again, for people that like challenge, there is challenge mode which is quite popular seeing all the transmogged players.

In TBC certain dungeons would still be challenging if you had tier 5 on your butt. I am not saying that what you're saying ain't true. But I'd like dungeons to stay valid longer then just before the new tier of an expansion. Valid in terms of danger to wiping (I understand you're not going in for the gear after the new tier).

There is content that is difficult in the game, there is also content that is easy, people play what they enjoy.

questing, pet battles, professions, normal dungeons are already easy.

That is not truly my question. My question is why people claim they say they ENJOY fast and easy, when they truly mean they just want to receive points or gear at the most efficient rate. The journey isn't important. So they do not enjoy doing feature X but they enjoy feature X because it is efficient. I know this sounds weird but thats what they say (apart from a few)

[Icaras]

Yes it is, for me anyway, because sometimes I don't want to be challenged...sometimes I just want to play the game.

Same as when sometimes you may activate a god mode cheat in an FPS, you juts wanna blast stuff and run around without being bothered by dying or health or whatever.

[Vaelorian]

Doing the same instance for the 50th time is not gonna turn into different experience if you have fire or arcane mage on your team as third dps.

Journey is experiencing the story, everything else is just grinding. And it's the grinding part we want fast and easy.

Oh because I used to word "Journey" you cling story to it? If I said "road" would you have too? You know what I mean and it has nothing to do with lore or stories.

I could also say: the time spent doing feature X - you call it grinding. Hell I agree with you that it might be grinding. And grinding should be a mindless activity at all times right? You put your mind to the lowest activity possible and "wait" until you receive what you were aiming for.

Great exciting game

[Pull My Finger]

Talent balancing? Are you deliberatly trying to put words into my mouth I did not say?
You do realise what synergy is right? In terms of what I wrote is means: Skills of class A working with or enhancing skills of class B.
This obviously hasn't much to do (same as the UI) with longer and harder content, but is a list of things I want implemented. Maybe I should have left it at "dynamic features/encounters". But thats just as vague as longer and harder content"

Coming back to it. I shouldn't have bitten at all. Now you're just taking my post apart on semantics. Nice. Maybe try to understand what it is I am saying instead. Same as your reply to Sorzzara. It just screams: Let me lure you into a debate and then I'll take your post apart and derail it.

Funny shit!

I don't have the slightest interest in taking your posts apart and luring you into endless debates - I seem to prefer fast & easy, after all.
You're already talking yourself in a flurry and making yourself angry. You should relax dude.

I don't know why you're fuming over skills, UI, synergies and whatnot. Your initial post was about fast & easy content. I wondered why you seem to think that "long & hard" by default means "good & good". I don't know you why suddenly started bringing up something entirely different and getting angry with me as if I derailed your post, when it was in fact you, all by yourself.

Relax - don't do it ...

When you wanna come!