Enjoy Burst of Speed while it lasts

[Hondoshaver]

I have used BoS in all game modes and it's not Terrible for PvE. It may not be unanimously the best, but its not terrible. I love it and I even tried to use it when they made it 50 energy or whatever that ungodly amount was for the month or so. We will have to see how the Arenas and BGs play out at the begining to really see if its over / under powered at 25, but I am good with it getting nerfed as long as it is inline with other mobility and disengage/knockbacks. We will simply have to play it out and leave honest feedback on the offical beta threads and not piss and moan about speculation on the MMO-champ ones.

[Jenton]

Not really no rogue spec stacks haste in pvp which means their energy reg barely moves all expansion.

That's true especially given the shift towards secondary stat gemming. With reforging gone though, it might be that secondary stats in PvP gear accumulate at a fairly equal rate. With gemming, you might have say X haste, X crit, X versatility, and 2X mastery. Is PvP gear available on the Beta realm or do we just have the datamined models and set bonuses?

[Mafic]

The only other mobility that was "nerfed" was Monks being able to steer Flying Serpent Kick but that was a bug.

- - - Updated - - -

That's true especially given the shift towards secondary stat gemming. With reforging gone though, it might be that secondary stats in PvP gear accumulate at a fairly equal rate. With gemming, you might have say X haste, X crit, X versatility, and 2X mastery. Is PvP gear available on the Beta realm or do we just have the datamined models and set bonuses?

It is available.

[Verain]

It's an overnerf. 20 was very defensible, 25 is built out of a fear that rogues will be able to stay on target too well. It's an unfounded fear.

[Delekii]

It looks like Blizzard is doing everything they can to ruin that talent on the beta. First upped to 20 energy, now even 25. I don't want to go back to being a helpless slow rogue :/

You won't be. You just won't be immune to slow while maintaining the vast majority of your offensive capability.

[Verain]

You won't be. You just won't be immune to slow while maintaining the vast majority of your offensive capability.

Burst of Speed is fine on live. On live, everyone is a greased weasel, so you'd expect a nerf in WoD. Going to 20 is a massive change for this talent, upping the cost by 33%. Going to 25 is too much.

[Wow]

Burst of Speed is fine on live. On live, everyone is a greased weasel, so you'd expect a nerf in WoD.

Nothing has changed on slows and gap openers in wod in fact its even worse. You get to deal with fun things like auto shot slows, double blink, and the same amount of roots as mop.

[Verain]

Nothing has changed on slows and gap openers in wod in fact its even worse.

I disagree. The fact that shamans can't run at full speed while spamming lightning bolt degreases their weasel, similar with locks. Moonkins spend less time insta spamming as well. I think only mages and two hunter specs maintain their complete disdain for holding still, though I could be uninformed.

So while slows are plentiful, and gap openers are plentiful, the penalty for having a melee on you is higher, so it's reasonable to assume that melee will be on you a bit less often.

Less reasonable is that we might be seeing that applied unevenly.

[Wow]

I disagree. The fact that shamans can't run at full speed while spamming lightning bolt degreases their weasel, similar with locks. Moonkins spend less time insta spamming as well. I think only mages and two hunter specs maintain their complete disdain for holding still, though I could be uninformed.

You see thing main thing about ele on live isn't lightning bolt though its chain into proc into proc lava burst procs and that hasn't changed ele dmg overall is low atm but tuning will bring them back. Locks got nerfed but it was very needed, Moonkins less instant spamming have you played one on beta? Starsurge is now instant baseline and has 3 charges the proc that makes it instant on live gives it more charges on beta just attacking a moonkin gives them more instants. Starsurge is still their hardest hitter.

Out of the healers pallys got screwed on casting but priest with the new 100 talent can keep people up with all instants, resto druid really didn't change, resto shammy still does insane burst healing.

Overall the game will play like now because you just won't see the suck classes just like you don't see them now. A few classes got nerfed but most play 90% the same or better.

Also something I never get on the bos hate if bos is so op wtf is a druid? lol


People want to believe that wod is changing a lot for pvp but overall its really not. There's still lots of range that doesn't sit cast, there's still comps that will cc you forever etc etc.

[Verain]

I was behind on the moonkin changes!

Also something I never get on the bos hate if bos is so op wtf is a druid? lol

Lol, true. The feral toolkit of shit to do to a target you are clawing is smaller than the rogue toolkit, but is it that much smaller to justify can't be snared or rooted, always moves super fast?

We call it "kittystep" when a druid is moving so fast in arena that you can't actually hit them with melee, because the game interprets their natural unsnared boosted movement as a series of small teleports.

[Aceveda]

Burst of Speed is fine on live. On live, everyone is a greased weasel, so you'd expect a nerf in WoD. Going to 20 is a massive change for this talent, upping the cost by 33%. Going to 25 is too much.

LOL, energy upped by 5 is a massive change? It changes nothing.
And BoS is far from fine on live, it's one of the most ridiculous talents out there.
BoS has no place in WoD pvp, I understand ppl liking it for pve/solo etc, but the spammable snare removal should be removed.

[Verain]

LOL, energy upped by 5 is a massive change?

It's a SIXTY PERCENT INCREASE man. Yes, that's massive. It's not like some move you press once and you are done. It's common and reasonable to use burst of speed many times in a fight, even multiple times to reach one target. Think of it this way- your 45 energy gap closer now becomes a 75 energy gap closer. That's the reality of this.

And BoS is far from fine on live, it's one of the most ridiculous talents out there.

Not really, no.

BoS has no place in WoD pvp, I understand ppl liking it for pve/solo etc, but the spammable snare removal should be removed.

Again, nonsense. Paladins have spammable snare/root removal, druids have spammable snare/root removal. If all of those were going away, then I could see that argument. But instead it's just rogue hate.

[Mafic]

25e or more it quickly becomes extremely unattractive for PVE reasons.

For PVP, since Rogues will not have extra energy from PVP set bonuses you have to select Lemon Zest and use glyph of energy to be able to use a 25e BoS while being able to have enough energy when you reach a target.

The WoD beta is actually more obnoxious with snares than live because casters need "room" to cast. But there are still a lot of instants so Deadly Throw isn't going to make a come back anytime soon.

Exotic Ammunition (Frozen Ammo) from hunters is going to convince a lot of skeptics wrong about what is so fundamentally wrong with Rogue mobility tier design.

[Aceveda]

It's a SIXTY PERCENT INCREASE man. Yes, that's massive. It's not like some move you press once and you are done. It's common and reasonable to use burst of speed many times in a fight, even multiple times to reach one target. Think of it this way- your 45 energy gap closer now becomes a 75 energy gap closer. That's the reality of this.



Not really, no.



Again, nonsense. Paladins have spammable snare/root removal, druids have spammable snare/root removal. If all of those were going away, then I could see that argument. But instead it's just rogue hate.

60% increase? I don't even.
I play Rogue myself and can say it's absolutely stupid. Rogues can't be kited for shit, if you want to get away you will. I myself want the game to be in a healthier state, while you're one of those who wants to be as overpowered as possible.
I bet you're furious for losing Shadow Blades? Because CD stacking isn't a problem, right?

Everyones mobility needs to change, but it's mainly Rogue's BoS, Ferals & Monks.

[Mafic]

60% increase? I don't even.
I play Rogue myself and can say it's absolutely stupid. Rogues can't be kited for shit, if you want to get away you will. I myself want the game to be in a healthier state, while you're one of those who wants to be as overpowered as possible.
I bet you're furious for losing Shadow Blades? Because CD stacking isn't a problem, right?

Everyones mobility needs to change, but it's mainly Rogue's BoS, Ferals & Monks.

Forget live balance because there is a lot wrong with live balance and BoS is way down the list.

Go play WoD beta to see that what you propose isn't even remotely true. Lets start with Subterfuge losing the stealth protection...this was given out to another class in WoD. At first I thought the stealth protection from Subterfuge was too good but Blizz handed it to another class. So, that made no sense to me why they nerfed Subterfuge for Rogues.

The only nerf to other mobility in beta of melee that was even close to what they did to BoS was Monks Flying Serpent Kick being able to be steered to turn corners. That was fixed because it was buggged.

WoD has way more obnoxious snares to deal with than live. Good news is that stuns and fears are not as crazy but the fundamental problem remains from the start of MoP. Rogue survivaiblity is tied around Elusivness (Feint) and combination of Feint with BoS 25e or greater is going to lead to energy starvation.

Energy starvation was a problem for PVP Rogues for most of MoP duration. And without the extra energy from PVP set bonuses it still is going to be a problem. It is not like Blizz had decreased the energy requirements for Mutilate, Sinister Strike, Backstab. Gouge and Blind still have energy costs as well as Shiv.

[Aceveda]

Forget live balance because there is a lot wrong with live balance and BoS is way down the list.

Go play WoD beta to see that what you propose isn't even remotely true. Lets start with Subterfuge losing the stealth protection...this was given out to another class in WoD. At first I thought the stealth protection from Subterfuge was too good but Blizz handed it to another class. So, that made no sense to me why they nerfed Subterfuge for Rogues.

The only nerf to other mobility in beta of melee that was even close to what they did to BoS was Monks Flying Serpent Kick being able to be steered to turn corners. That was fixed because it was buggged.

WoD has way more obnoxious snares to deal with than live. Good news is that stuns and fears are not as crazy but the fundamental problem remains from the start of MoP. Rogue survivaiblity is tied around Elusivness (Feint) and combination of Feint with BoS 25e or greater is going to lead to energy starvation.

Energy starvation was a problem for PVP Rogues for most of MoP duration. And without the extra energy from PVP set bonuses it still is going to be a problem. It is not like Blizz had decreased the energy requirements for Mutilate, Sinister Strike, Backstab. Gouge and Blind still have energy costs as well as Shiv.

I think that perk is gone, actually. Go check WoD calc.
Energy from setbonus is from a glyph now, and Venom Zest.
They know players are concerned with mobility and CC breaks, I'm sure other classes will be hit.

And snares being stronger is kind of the point, we're going back to kiting because casters will be casting again. I agree with the hunter ammunition talent, stuff like that shouldn't exist.

[Verain]

There's no reason to suspect that "other classes will be hit". None at all. Devs had said that they were looking at bos months ago.

Believing that the hunter ammo talent shouldn't exist is well and good, but the fact is it will assuredly go live like that.

[Deleted]

Our talent tree is pretty sad really. When I look at WoD Warrior talent tree it gets me excited. Mage talent tree got some exciting changes. While Rogue is really the most pedestrian boring talent tree I could ever even imagine

[Deleted]

Our talent tree is pretty sad really. When I look at WoD Warrior talent tree it gets me excited. Mage talent tree got some exciting changes. While Rogue is really the most pedestrian boring talent tree I could ever even imagine

This. It's the worst talent tree in the game at the moment, in my opinion. Where there is choice, it is not an interesting one.

[Demeia]

PLEASE remove it alltogether, and balance rogue mobility around not having it.

I have barely played my rogue at all because of how miserable it feels. An underpowered class being kept viable by 2 overpowered talents (subterfuge and BoS). BoS is not fun or interesting. Just remove it, make Shadowstep baseline and give us a new tier of talents.

OK, I am a long-longtime supporter of ShS baseline, feeling it was one skill that had a bit of "wow" factor in our arsenal. Teleporting about is cool and teleporting behind a target is mondo cool for a rogue.

But I really wonder if Blizzard could even deliver a respectable replacement tier. A power like "Vendatta" remaining when a slightly interesting shadowblades was gutted makes me think not.