[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Maxie]

I agree with ToTH + FS, I never feel like I'm accidentally capping focus with it. I also like the occasional burst it gives, even if it's RNG.

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I agree with ToTH + FS, I never feel like I'm accidentally capping focus with it. I also like the occasional burst it gives, even if it's RNG.

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I have a question regarding Pawn and the weights in OP. It tells me that heroic HM has next to no upgrades, I'm 656 with just 1 heroic piece. So are these weights correct for sure, am I doing something wrong or do I really have next to no upgrades in heroic and should jump straight for Mythic?

This is probably because Multistrike is so strong and because Haste is utter shit for surv. Haste is everywhere in HM.

[Huggykaze]

I agree with ToTH + FS, I never feel like I'm accidentally capping focus with it. I also like the occasional burst it gives, even if it's RNG.

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I agree with ToTH + FS, I never feel like I'm accidentally capping focus with it. I also like the occasional burst it gives, even if it's RNG.

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This is probably because Multistrike is so strong and because Haste is utter shit for surv. Haste is everywhere in HM.

Thanks, guess I'm stayin' with what I have for a while longer

[Nachturnal]

I was about to switch to Survival permanently until it became more aware that Focusing Shot + Steady Focus in MM was more viable. Now I will be playing both ^_^.

Back when Highmaul was released, I played MM with these 2 talents and performed just as well as those with Lone Wolf, though that is just anecdotal evidence. It just felt smoother compared to being focus starved.

Rocking BM as secondary until I finish Challenge Modes, but will definitely be playing Survival/Marksman indefinitely.

[royen]

Back when Highmaul was released

You make it sound so long ago

Also MM with FS/SF is the biggest aids play I have ever done.

[Huggykaze]

I was about to switch to Survival permanently until it became more aware that Focusing Shot + Steady Focus in MM was more viable. Now I will be playing both ^_^.

Back when Highmaul was released, I played MM with these 2 talents and performed just as well as those with Lone Wolf, though that is just anecdotal evidence. It just felt smoother compared to being focus starved.

Rocking BM as secondary until I finish Challenge Modes, but will definitely be playing Survival/Marksman indefinitely.

How is MM more viable?:P I mean, burst is higher, ok, but on some fights it's not really important

[HappyLuckBox]

Actually I'm getting better and better at pooling focus with FS so I don't need to stand in shit so often, also we raid with 3 hunters so we can easily rotate fox for phases like Quake or Force Novas. As long as you don't have to babysit other people (Arcane Wrath says hello) it's not that hard ^^

May i ask how? Are you using toth?

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Also, based on stat priority it looks like marksman will overtake as the best spec once more gear becomes available? (MM gains more from each stat than any other spec)

[Azortharion]

Not how it works. They are normalized stat weights, purely relative, not indicative of actual scaling.

Besides, CLEARLY not with how OP Multistrike is for SV, this is how it's looking with more gear: http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html

[Deleted]

May i ask how? Are you using toth?

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Also, based on stat priority it looks like marksman will overtake as the best spec once more gear becomes available? (MM gains more from each stat than any other spec)

that will be BRF gear, which is loaded with MS, making SV stay close, on top of being a raid where pretty much every boss has some kind of AoE or several targets where SV or BM will be ahead

[HappyLuckBox]

Not how it works. They are normalized stat weights, purely relative, not indicative of actual scaling.

Besides, CLEARLY not with how OP Multistrike is for SV, this is how it's looking with more gear: http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html

Thanks for the quick answer

[minigun]

How is MM more viable?:P I mean, burst is higher, ok, but on some fights it's not really important

Sims higher single target for me, but of course that's because most of the gear in HM is better suited for MM.

I like FS + SF for surv, but it feels insanely clunky with MM. When I practiced it the other day the AiS crits totally fucked me over numerous times. I seriously wonder if the sim even takes the fact you don't instantly get your 20 focus return back on crits.

Here is an example of what I am talking about,
Lets say I cast AiS, and I have 90 focus by the time it goes off. Now I have 40 focus. I can't cast AiS, and a lot of my other shit might be on CD. If I charge up focusing shot, and the AiS crits, then I am at 60 focus. If I cancel FS, then I waste the the time it took to register the crit focus return. if I proceed with FS, then I end up with 40+20+15(regen)+50 focus = 125 focus (5 focus over cap), and if an instant isn't on CD, that's another 15 focus regen'd, and wasted. This occurs quite frequently as well.

If the sim just instantly generates 20 focus when AiS crits are rolled, then there could be a sizable discrepancy between actual dps and what is simmed. Enough so that it really isn't even better than LW. This is of course, IF the sim is flawed in this way though.

[Azortharion]

Just assume it doesn't crit, play low focus and win the game.

[zurm]

Here is an example of what I am talking about,
Lets say I cast AiS, and I have 90 focus by the time it goes off. Now I have 40 focus. I can't cast AiS, and a lot of my other shit might be on CD. If I charge up focusing shot, and the AiS crits, then I am at 60 focus. If I cancel FS, then I waste the the time it took to register the crit focus return. if I proceed with FS, then I end up with 40+20+15(regen)+50 focus = 125 focus (5 focus over cap), and if an instant isn't on CD, that's another 15 focus regen'd, and wasted. This occurs quite frequently as well.

This was the problem I saw with FS+SF for MM. The problem for me was the high cost of AiS outside of CA. When you have SF already rolling, given the cast time for FS/AiS you get a ton of focus back while casting, so in addition to the problem above, you cap a lot (since you don't take glaive or crows in most cases now as MM, so you only have ChiS to fill that "gap"). I think a really skilled player can definitely pull it off if they plan ahead, but I found ToTH + FS to be much more manageable for both SV and MM. I know this is the theory thread, and I'm not going to pull a rickhunter and argue with Azor, but I have had a lot of trouble pulling off SF+FS where as I've had a lot of success with ToTH + FS.

Now if any of the superpro hunters have any tips for managing SF+FS, I'm all ears.

[Effinhunter]

So, I'm finally back and spent the day running comprehensive gear profiles for SV (these are now on EJ, let me know if you see any issues). There was a question earlier in the thread about whether someone should keep rerolling from savage to try getting something else. I wouldn't. All sims are currently showing the following priority for ST when using a Heroic Highmaul profile as base for upgrades:

1. Savage (crit:ms)
2. Strat (ms:vers)
3. Merci (mast:ms)
4. Deft (haste:ms)
5. Quick (crit:vers)
6. Aurora (haste:vers)
7. Fire (crit:haste)
8. Harm (mast:vers)
9. Peer (crit:mastery)
10. Fever (haste:mastery)

As has been mentioned here and at EJ, when it comes to SV, crit and vers are so close that it's hard to tell them apart and versa often comes up ahead of crit slightly in the Simcraft scale factors reporting. But for now, especially as you're trying to reach BiS in Highmaul, the order I'm finding for stat priorities is still ms > crit > vers >= mastery > haste. The difference between focusing on ms > crit and ms > versa, as far as I can tell with mythic ilvls, is roughly 50-70 dps per slot. So, you might (emphasis on 'might') see roughly 50 * 16 == 800 dps for ST on a 40k+ profile. However, versa is definitely better for multi-target, so any loss you have in the ST department would be made up on multi-target fights, which are plentiful in this tier as well as next tier.

[Azortharion]

This was the problem I saw with FS+SF for MM. The problem for me was the high cost of AiS outside of CA. When you have SF already rolling, given the cast time for FS/AiS you get a ton of focus back while casting, so in addition to the problem above, you cap a lot (since you don't take glaive or crows in most cases now as MM, so you only have ChiS to fill that "gap"). I think a really skilled player can definitely pull it off if they plan ahead, but I found ToTH + FS to be much more manageable for both SV and MM. I know this is the theory thread, and I'm not going to pull a rickhunter and argue with Azor, but I have had a lot of trouble pulling off SF+FS where as I've had a lot of success with ToTH + FS.

Now if any of the superpro hunters have any tips for managing SF+FS, I'm all ears.

ES > AS > AS > FS > ES as a base. Never cap focus ggwp.

[zurm]

ES > AS > AS > FS > ES as a base. Never cap focus ggwp.

What about as MM? I do have less of an issue with SV than MM with this.

[Azortharion]

One Focusing Shot for one Aimed. If you get nastily good RNG then there's nothing you can do.

[dombow]

Hey thanks :-D I actually ended up grabbing the 670 chest from Brack so I havent even thought about trying to put the time/effort/money into upgrading the crafted chest anymore. I would have to try and compare the two but I doubt with my limited gold income and time input that it would be worth it. I can roll with the 670 brack chest til mythic or BRF. But still helpful to have the info to pass along.

So, I'm finally back and spent the day running comprehensive gear profiles for SV (these are now on EJ, let me know if you see any issues). There was a question earlier in the thread about whether someone should keep rerolling from savage to try getting something else. I wouldn't. All sims are currently showing the following priority for ST when using a Heroic Highmaul profile as base for upgrades:

1. Savage (crit:ms)
2. Strat (ms:vers)
3. Merci (mast:ms)
4. Deft (haste:ms)
5. Quick (crit:vers)
6. Aurora (haste:vers)
7. Fire (crit:haste)
8. Harm (mast:vers)
9. Peer (crit:mastery)
10. Fever (haste:mastery)

As has been mentioned here and at EJ, when it comes to SV, crit and vers are so close that it's hard to tell them apart and versa often comes up ahead of crit slightly in the Simcraft scale factors reporting. But for now, especially as you're trying to reach BiS in Highmaul, the order I'm finding for stat priorities is still ms > crit > vers >= mastery > haste. The difference between focusing on ms > crit and ms > versa, as far as I can tell with mythic ilvls, is roughly 50-70 dps per slot. So, you might (emphasis on 'might') see roughly 50 * 16 == 800 dps for ST on a 40k+ profile. However, versa is definitely better for multi-target, so any loss you have in the ST department would be made up on multi-target fights, which are plentiful in this tier as well as next tier.

[EqualWin]

can some1 link where i can download/get a simcraft that i can use my gear with and test my dps etc? (I remember using dwarf hunter or so back in the day) but now I cant find one

[Azortharion]

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D always latest uploaded .exe there.

[dombow]

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D always latest uploaded .exe there.

Tempting to install this at work and try it haha. My time at work is my most efficient study/research time. :-D