[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[marmil]

Hey guys, can you help me with dilemma - I intend to do semi hc raiding with my guild and can't decide between fire mage and mm/bm hunter.
Who do you think is the better pick long-term? Currently, I enjoy playing mm slightly better than mm but I don't want to lose range dps slot in the future to mage.
I like playing mage as well, so I won't be 'forcing' myself to play class I don't want to.
Thanks.

[Deleted]

Mage has Rune of Power, screw mage.

[Smog]

Hey guys, can you help me with dilemma - I intend to do semi hc raiding with my guild and can't decide between fire mage and mm/bm hunter.
Who do you think is the better pick long-term? Currently, I enjoy playing mm slightly better than mm but I don't want to lose range dps slot in the future to mage.
I like playing mage as well, so I won't be 'forcing' myself to play class I don't want to.
Thanks.

Mage has traditionally been the highest performing ranged dps class for the longest amount of time. They are consistently at or near the top of the charts. Hunters have also been a fairly safe pick, but often range anywhere from the top to the middle of the pack. Both classes have had low points, but they're few and far between.

They're both safe picks. Mage is safer. It's arguably the safest-pick competitive class in the game, ranged dps or otherwise.

[aznxk3vi17]

So Windburst is only worth using in those rare moments of downtime when you have no Marking Targets buff and Barrage isn't up AND Vulnerable isn't up (according to Azor's updated guide)? Looking at the skill I would have thought that its priority would be higher.

Also, say you're about to focus cap at the same time as Sidewinders is about to cap at 2 charges. Is it better to pop off one or two non-vulnerable Aimed Shots before using Sidewinders, or better to just focus cap immediately by using Sidewinders and maximizing Vulnerable uptime?

[Deleted]

What are the suggested relics for MM/BM?

[Smog]

So Windforce is only worth using in those rare moments of downtime when you have no Marking Targets buff and Barrage isn't up AND Vulnerable isn't up (according to Azor's updated guide)?

Almost. Windburst is higher priority than SW. So cast it when Barrage is down and the target isn't vulnerable.

Copy-pasted from Azor's guide:

• Cast Marked Shot when it is available, but only if you will not be able to cast another Aimed Shot before the currently active Vulnerable debuff expires, or if Vulnerable is not present on the target already. If you are fighting multiple enemies that are about to die, you should prioritize getting Marked Shot cast before any of them are killed off.
• Cast Barrage on cooldown, if you have chosen this talent.
• Cast Windburst on cooldown, but only if you have more than 50 focus and the Vulnerable debuff isn't up.
• Cast Aimed Shot if you can cast it before Vulnerable will expire from the target.
• If you are using the Sidewinders talent, you should only cast it if Marking Targets is active, as indicated by its button lighting up on your action bar. You should also keep it from ever reaching 2 charges, and you should be prepared to use it without Marking Targets active to keep this from happening.

or better to just focus cap immediately by using Sidewinders and maximizing Vulnerable uptime?

Correct, assuming Barrage/Windburst isn't available.

@Azortharion Could you check this post? I'm fairly sure I'm interpreting what you've said across the boards and in your guide correctly, but I don't want to spread misinformation, especially concerning the subtleties of SW and Windburst.

[eathdemon]

dumb question, but why dont we use windburst much? even with Vulnerable up it hits harder than aim shot, its cheaper than aim shot, and it re applies Vulnerable? acording to the aertafact calc winburst is 800% ap, where even with Vulnerable aim shot ends up only being around 500% ap.

[Smog]

dumb question, but why dont we use windburst much? even with Vulnerable up it hits harder than aim shot, its cheaper than aim shot, and it re applies Vulnerable? acording to the aertafact calc winburst is 800% ap, where even with Vulnerable aim shot ends up only being around 500% ap.

Because, as you said, its damage isn't affected by vulnerable. As there will be windows when vulnerable is not up, and it's not optimal to use SW, it's more valuable to cast Windburst there, because otherwise you would simply be casting nothing.

When it is valuable to cast AiS, you should be. There are windows of dead time in the spec which Windburst fills. That's its function.

The spec is, to put it simply, about getting as much value as possible out of your globals through smart use of your abilities and gaming the vulnerable windows. Compare the two globals discussed above. What's better: a gcd where you gain approximately 250% physical damage (windbursting over AiS), or a gcd where you gain 800% physical damage (windbursting over doing nothing)?

edit: On a lesser note, Aimed Shot also has several synergies with the artifact (wind arrows, increased crit chance, etc) that bumps it up to a higher DPE than its tooltip would indicate.

[eathdemon]

got it, still weird given on live that only happens a few times a fight, though fights are very short now and wont be at 110.

[Smog]

got it, still weird given on live that only happens a few times a fight, though fights are very short now and wont be at 110.

Yeah, it's not the most synergistic ability with the rest of the kit. If it benefited from vulnerable, it would be considerably more intuitive, but would also need to be tuned. Correct Windburst usage will be one of several things about MM that will separate decent hunters from great ones.

[eathdemon]

tell me if I am wrong on this, but I wounder if windburst is a good way to get vulnerable up on a add I need to kill, but I want to keep sidewinders for the boss.

[Smog]

tell me if I am wrong on this, but I wounder if windburst is a good way to get vulnerable up on a add I need to kill, but I want to keep sidewinders for the boss.

If there is a priority add that needs to die, you need to be Marked Shotting it, thus you need to be SW'ing it. You will typically also be able to SW both the boss and the add; that's one of the greatest strengths of the spec.

[Deleted]

I think the opener is not updated correctly.
It lists as Draenic potion and wouldn't it make more sense to open/precast with Windburst, considering that you'll have no problem whatsoever in the first 20 seconds and it'll be up again? I think you can cast Trueshot in time to affect your first autoshot.

tell me if I am wrong on this, but I wounder if windburst is a good way to get vulnerable up on a add I need to kill, but I want to keep sidewinders for the boss.

Yes it is. You won't always have a proc ready for adds and you don't want to use Sidewinders unless you are capping out on charges or have a proc. But that's basically what Windburst is there for in general.

[quasi51]

First, thanks for the guide Azor. I've been playing around with binding shot and I can't seem to get it to stun a stationary target casting an interruptable spell. Is this still possible or have they changed it so movement it required to proc the stun? Also, I assume this is only useful for adds that are stunnable and not bosses? In other words, if the target cannot be stunned then the binding shot wouldn't interrupt even if the spell could be kicked? Thanks

[Smog]

First, thanks for the guide Azor. I've been playing around with binding shot and I can't seem to get it to stun a stationary target casting an interruptable spell. Is this still possible or have they changed it so movement it required to proc the stun? Also, I assume this is only useful for adds that are stunnable and not bosses? In other words, if the target cannot be stunned then the binding shot wouldn't interrupt even if the spell could be kicked? Thanks

As the tooltip indicates, the mob isn't stunned unless it moves away from the arrow. You have bursting shot, the knockback of which will not only interrupt the spell, but also stun the mob(s). That's one of the (several) reasons both binding and bursting are so good in mythic+.

If the mob is stun/knockback immune, it will not interrupt the spell. The loss of control causes the interrupt, not a separate secondary interrupt effect.

[Effinhunter]

As the tooltip indicates, the mob isn't stunned unless it moves away from the arrow. You have bursting shot, the knockback of which will not only interrupt the spell, but also stun the mob(s). That's one of the (several) reasons both binding and bursting are so good in mythic+.

If the mob is stun/knockback immune, it will not interrupt the spell. The loss of control causes the interrupt, not a separate secondary interrupt effect.

This bursting shot/binding shot interaction is essentially a replacement for our old glyphed explosive trap/binding shot (since we can no longer have traps in MM) and power shot/binding shot combos from WoD. The binding shot puts a tether on the mobs within its radius. If the tether is broken (e.g. by the add moving naturally out of the radius or being knocked out of the radius), then the mob is stunned.

[Smog]

This bursting shot/binding shot interaction is essentially a replacement for our old glyphed explosive trap/binding shot (since we can no longer have traps in MM) and power shot/binding shot combos from WoD. The binding shot puts a tether on the mobs within its radius. If the tether is broken (e.g. by the add moving naturally out of the radius or being knocked out of the radius), then the mob is stunned.

I'm aware? I'm not sure if you're quoting to supplement or explain. I thought I kind of said that.

[Effinhunter]

I'm aware? I'm not sure if you're quoting to supplement or explain. I thought I kind of said that.

Complementing to describe why we have the ability synergy, that it's not really something new, and describing the tether component.

Anyway, what Smog said is absolutely correct. I'm not contradicting it.

[Smog]

snip

Gotcha, that's what I figured, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding something, even after your explanation.

[psuwannanon]

Aim Shot with Vulnerable debuff higher priority than Windburst right??