[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Deleted]

From looking at the logs, Dyrlaegen has more active dps on the Primal Eles in each attempt. However, Azor has more active time. This makes me think Dyrlaegen just isn't as quick to target the Primal Ele as Azor is. This makes sense to me. Azor has amazing reflexes and, mechanically, knows his shit. I think many hunters put in the same raid with him will find themselves a bit slower on reactions. [...]

You know way ahead of time which Elementalist will be the next target, you see the Slag Elemental dropping, see it casting its spell to make the Elementalist vulnerable and know how long that takes. It's all very predictable and really doesn't require amazing reflexes in order to switch accordingly if so desired.

Also, if the goal of the tactic you're doing on mythic Blast Furnace is to do every Elementalist in 2 nuke phases anyway (as most guilds do, with some choosing to burst maybe one of them in 1 phase when all CDs are up, rarely more than that), you don't need anyone to go all out on single target burst. On the contrary, you actually want to cleave down the active Firecallers+the next Slag Elemental while getting about 50% of the Elementalist, which both SV and BM are much better at than MM, especially if the other targets aren't always close enough for CS to cleave.

It's true though that the 35% execute is rather unique and can help with quickly pushing stuff to 20% for other classes to get their executes off as well. Might not always be justifiable if that means losing a good amount of DPS before that phase though.
On Blackhand for example, MM will be really bad in p2 compared to both BM and SV, especially when factoring in movement. So unless p2 dps is largely irrelevant, I doubt MM will be the best choice for the fight as a whole. Especially since p1 and p3 won't be much worse as BM, possibly better depending on what kind of Sniper Training uptime MM can get there.

[Tekslol]

both pottm and rogerbrown skipping BM spec? reasons? thoughts? ...

Most likely they don't care because they are done with progress. They are just farming stuff for T18. Maybe in T18 when the race is on they will go to BM.

[Deleted]

Most likely they don't care because they are done with progress. They are just farming stuff for T18. Maybe in T18 when the race is on they will go to BM.

wow this is so wrong

[IKnowMyClass]

Leggings of Broken Magic HC (180 crit + 130 Multi) VS Corrosion-Proof Legguards HC (185 haste + 165 versatility) + SOCKET?

[Leaky]

Anyone have the trinket comparisons still? Mainly wondering about how SoW and the new Alch trinket stack up for SV/BM (including 670 versions). IIRC the old rankings ignored the 670

[Deleted]

They're probably gonna be updated soon..

[Effinhunter]

Anyone have the trinket comparisons still? Mainly wondering about how SoW and the new Alch trinket stack up for SV/BM (including 670 versions). IIRC the old rankings ignored the 670

I try to keep them up to date on EJ. Here's the BM one:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...4#entry2277729

The alchemy trinkets are referenced by name (e.g. stone_of_fire for Stone of Fire) so look for the specific alchemy one you are interested in.

The SV one I have is older. I need to run that one after I get done with the MM comprehensive sim I have running at home. If people have spare cycles (takes ~3h on a decent comp), let me know and I'll try to walk you through the individual trinket or other gear slot sims.

[Samfisher]

I try to keep them up to date on EJ. Here's the BM one:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...4#entry2277729

The alchemy trinkets are referenced by name (e.g. stone_of_fire for Stone of Fire) so look for the specific alchemy one you are interested in.

The SV one I have is older. I need to run that one after I get done with the MM comprehensive sim I have running at home. If people have spare cycles (takes ~3h on a decent comp), let me know and I'll try to walk you through the individual trinket or other gear slot sims.

I got about 6 hours to spare so hit me up with something that takes roughly as long. When I did MM all gear ST, took about 6 hours as well. You know where to find me

[Sazda]

@Effin:

Would you follow your list, or do you rate on-use trinkets slightly higher than the sims show you - like BHotM? Here are my current choices for trinkets:

M SoD
M CMA
H BHotM
H HBT
H MDT

I have been running with H MDT + H BHotM for BM, while swapping the H MDT to H HBT for MM. I am surprised your M SoD and H HBT are ranked so high. Would you suggest i swap to those two, or would you use the H BHotM over the M SoD for the on-use effect? Or something different? Do you make it dependent on the next encounter?

[Effinhunter]

@Effin:

Would you follow your list, or do you rate on-use trinkets slightly higher than the sims show you - like BHotM? Here are my current choices for trinkets:

M SoD
M CMA
H BHotM
H HBT
H MDT

I have been running with H MDT + H BHotM for BM, while swapping the H MDT to H HBT for MM. I am surprised your M SoD and H HBT are ranked so high. Would you suggest i swap to those two, or would you use the H BHotM over the M SoD for the on-use effect? Or something different? Do you make it dependent on the next encounter?

I'm not running the sims in a way that would show the extra benefits of on-use (a generic sim just can't do this), but there are a lot of fights that would prefer them in BRF. Adds come out at a specific time, and this is when your trinkets are almost always optimal.

So, on fights like Thogar, like we mentioned earlier (and I've shown how you can create your own custom sim to help showcase an on-use, e.g. by modifying your action list to only use the trinket if there are >5 active enemies, for instance), you have a definite argument for an on-use increasing its effectiveness. Kromog grasps too. Iron Maidens? Because the adds are there most of the time and trinkets seem to line up as-is, the list is relatively close to in game weighting, imo. BTW, BHotM is BiS just about everywhere, so the on-use is coming out top of the list regardless (as it should).

Edit: @Sam, thanks for running the MM trinket sims! Much appreciated!

[IKnowMyClass]

Leggings of Broken Magic HC (180 crit + 130 Multi) VS Corrosion-Proof Legguards HC (185 haste + 165 versatility) + SOCKET?

[Rugtoad]

Leggings of Broken Magic HC (180 crit + 130 Multi) VS Corrosion-Proof Legguards HC (185 haste + 165 versatility) + SOCKET?

Dude, seriously? There are stat weights in the guide. It takes about 3 minutes to navigate over to the guide, get the weights, then calculate which is better. Even if people were willing to answer your stupid questions like this, you didn't give us enough information to do so.

[Effinhunter]

Leggings of Broken Magic HC (180 crit + 130 Multi) VS Corrosion-Proof Legguards HC (185 haste + 165 versatility) + SOCKET?

For BM, more stats via socket are always better, pretty much regardless of what they are. But I'll show you how you can check this for yourself with Simcraft.

First, the answer for my gear, which breaks my 4pc, but should give you an idea of the socket difference.


Simcraft Settings (change the armory to your own)

Spoiler: 

#plug in your own armory info
armory=us,area+52,effinhunter
name="leggings_of_broken_magic"

#change legs to whatever you want to test
legs=leggings_of_broken_magic,id=113839,bonus_id=566

copy="corrosion_proof_legguards"


#change legs to whatever you want to test
legs=corrosion-proof_legguards,id=113875,bonus_id=564/566,gems=50mastery

BTW, you can also check the gear slot comparison on EJ. Here's the leggings one:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...4#entry2277726

[natelikewhoa]

Someone had whispered me about this the other day.

What I had heard is that they had found MM to be fantastic on progression aspects of almost all of current Mythic content. The 35% execute, especially, is something that helps out immensely on many of the hardest phases of Mythic BRF bosses, especially Blast Furnace and Blackhand for the single target duties that are most important. I haven't heard about what is intriguing to them about SV (and honestly, this is all second hand information anyway), but here's what I personally like about SV.

If you want AoE, SV is very consistent AoE damage and very predictable playstyle, which can help you focus on progression mechanics while still getting good dps. BM has a slightly higher topend in ST and the executes which also help out with progression bosses.

MM is definitely something I hope to play around again with soon, especially since we still have 9 bosses to kill in Mythic. Until recently (yesterday), I was still stuck with a 670 bow off Brackenspore, only 2 piece tier, and CMA instead of anything really useful for my 2nd trinket slot. I think I have the gear now to mess around with all three specs, and I think MM is not being given the opportunity on progression that it really should be getting. Sniper training and the CS buffs are very, very strong for one to two target focusing.



The thread was always a watering hole for hunters. At first it was a FAQ thread and a continuation of the FAQ thread that had started in SoO. It was changed to "theorycrafting" by Azor, then Universal Guide, and various other changes. At its best, the thread has been a great place for general hunter discussion. I can't think of any legitimate reason for Yooi or anyone else to claim that "theorycrafting" has ever been the staple of the kinds of shenanigans that have gone on in this thread.

I'm playing almost exclusively MM now because our progression is 7/10 and we're working on fights where I feel it's most needed.

The tipping point for me was Thogar.

Pretty numbers aren't good numbers. Dracodraco nailed it.

Having an MM hunter save stampede/CDs/second pot for the third man-at-arms/firemender during the second split phase means you can commit far less people to that side, and leave the majority of your raid to clean the AoE adds, making at least one of the two priorities near-dead if not dead before the split even recedes.

The argument about primal elementalists is a silly one for me, because no one is considering the -other- targets in the fight, nor are they reflecting on the fact that Azor's raid missed a 1-phase kill on many of them, making BM certainly more likely to win because of the lifetime of the mob being extended artificially, thus denying the MM curve of +80% vs. -35%.

Here's a better evaluation from the kill parse:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...NPC%24true%240

notice even with less active time (71 vs. 85) Dyr is actually edging out Azor on priority targets.

Different specs have different strengths.

Notice that Dyr crushes on Bellows, whereas he's obviously going to lose on the adds that can be cleaved moreso later in the fight.

The biggest elephant in the room here is that as Effin said, none of this exists in a vacuum. Yes, BM will parse higher on almost every fight simply due to the fact that there is more -potential- to hit the jackpot RNG-wise and cash in.

Yes, it will win on cleave and has that usefulness.

However, with the amount of classes who have received major AoE buffs/spec tuning in WoD, people are really forgetting the usefulness of having priority DPS components to their raid comp. We don't all need to jump on the BM hype train because we can get pretty numbers and still do "acceptable" priority/on-demand dps.

We encountered this on thogar progress. From one raid night to the next I swapped from BM to MM so I could crush priority targets, and it made the second split phase noticeably easier. Not to mention, I can guarantee that output and replicate it. Can't say the same for BM (at least not at the level where it would beat the MM output on-demand in a priority scenario).

To me, it's just doing what I've done with hunter since I started playing this game -- do utility, do priority, and do it well, while still putting out considerable overall DPS.

No one is saying you're wrong for playing BM, nor is it "bad" or "scumbag."

It's simply a mention that there are viable uses and even advantageous ones on many of these fights to run a MM hunter.

Side note: Not even gonna go into the scaling benefit of azor getting 10% more uptime on his weapon enchant during a super long fight...

[Deleted]

Crit is better even with the Trigger, not sure what you're trying to get at.

[Tehterokkar]

Mind linking your log? It's not recorded publicly (all I can find of you is a kill as surv). 20+17+17+16M dmg to pack beasts is 70M dmg done to them, and they have 1.2M hp each - that means that 4 players literally killed 58 beasts among them. This is how our log looks from last week:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nmfwBDdvxXhJAP93#fight=5&type=damage-done&target=81

everyone's throwing AOE on them, and no one's reaching such insane numbers as you are quoting (bar the elemental shaman, who is literally in the top 5 highest parsing ele shamans overall in the instance, as of writing this) , so it'd seem to me as either the entirety of your raid is slacking, or you're getting to "whore" on the beasts. BM's burst is not really big on the adds, they need to stay alive for a relatively long time for BM to become "king". The reason BM aoe is so good is because it's almost of no cost to your singletarget damage.

Our Mythic logs are kept Private for the most part. Here's pic of Beast damage: http://gyazo.com/65722e2e2c4c1fc3f4d0bf9fbcc76bb0
Total # of Beasts killed in the log is 114, our kill is also over 10 mins.

[natelikewhoa]

Crit is better even with the Trigger, not sure what you're trying to get at.

yea i put it as an aside because I'm still fine tuning gear

the most impactful thing gear or rng wise was the fact that two of the elementalist didnt die in one phase from my perspective

[Deleted]

yea i put it as an aside because I'm still fine tuning gear

the most impactful thing gear or rng wise was the fact that two of the elementalist didnt die in one phase from my perspective

Killing any but the first in one go was not even attempted.

[natelikewhoa]

Killing any but the first in one go was not even attempted.

Since I'm not talking to you, but instead Azortharion as you're just being his mouthpiece right now while he's banned, I'll direct the following to him:

Az, I'm not insinuating anywhere you guys "failed" a dps check. I'm pointing out that if the reality is that the elementalists phases aren't completed each time in 1 go, there will be an influence on the MM hunter's damage curve for a priority target, which will be a much different story when other high-health priority adds are examined, like Bellows.

[Elysia]

Since this point of contention has come up again in the last few pages, we'd like to make a post to clarify the site's views on this thread. The idea that only mythic and min/maxing theorycrafting can be discussed in this thread is not acceptable. While we understand the guide is written with this type of progression in mind, that does not mean that it is okay to chase anybody out of the thread who wishes to discuss general hunter mechanics/numbers/whatever.

On the flipside, we do want to note that anybody coming into the thread with counterpoints to already established theory does need to have some actual evidence to back their arguments up. Claiming that something works for you that goes against the current proven methods and therefore those methods are wrong with nothing to show how/why is not helpful.

Arguing over the purpose of this thread is not only pointless, but also unnecessary and has occurred way too often in the last few weeks. Going forward, discussions in this thread need to be inclusive of anybody looking for information regarding hunters. Attacking other users because they have questions that go against the grain of mythic theorycrafting will not be tolerated.

Arguments and discussions are great. Being rude and outright mean to each other is not.