Garrosh 25HC - skipping ToeS intermission

[Tomsweeden]

When my guild had its original raiders in for garrosh for mount farming, we eventually got to a point of pushing him during his whirling or just before. Though only downside for us was he would hit 1hp before he was lifted into the air, so we'd have a lot of wasted DPS for those who didn't hold procs and wait for lust

[Trubo]

You shouldn't need BL to skip it with current ilevels.

If you're running the bare minimum tanks and healers, I agree.

My guild still runs 4 healers and 3 tanks. I wish one of the healers and tanks would just go damage for the rest of the expansion like I have since we regularly get the boss to 11%-14% without Hero/Lust as is.

[Dracodraco]

If you're running the bare minimum tanks and healers, I agree.

My guild still runs 4 healers and 3 tanks. I wish one of the healers and tanks would just go damage for the rest of the expansion like I have since we regularly get the boss to 11%-14% without Hero/Lust as is.

It's hardly the "Bare minimum", though. There really wasn't ever a reason to go 3 tanks in the first place, most guilds just did it because it seemed like it was the right thing to do and didn't want the burst of damage during empowered whirls in P3. Completly objectively, though, there's no reason to have a third tank rather than, say, a warrior who can banner+rally the explosion hit in P3 to mitigate the dmg instead of trying to lower it with 2x tanks. Personally wish we'd gone with just the one tank for progress, would have made DPS check a bit easier.

[Trubo]

It's hardly the "Bare minimum", though. There really wasn't ever a reason to go 3 tanks in the first place, most guilds just did it because it seemed like it was the right thing to do and didn't want the burst of damage during empowered whirls in P3. Completly objectively, though, there's no reason to have a third tank rather than, say, a warrior who can banner+rally the explosion hit in P3 to mitigate the dmg instead of trying to lower it with 2x tanks. Personally wish we'd gone with just the one tank for progress, would have made DPS check a bit easier.

This assuming you get the second vision or no? If no then I agree, if yes well I'll just defer to the person who is more experienced as a raider than myself.

[Dracodraco]

This assuming you get the second vision or no? If no then I agree, if yes well I'll just defer to the person who is more experienced as a raider than myself.

The second vision doesn't really change the need for 2 or 3 tanks - a third tank won't help a lot in catching the adds. So hardly matters =P. On progress we'd usually get 2x empowered whirls in P3 (occasionally skipping it), which ment heavy explosions during the second whirl due to tank-stacks. That's what I'm referring to.

[brunnor]

We skip with 2-3 buyers, 2 tank, 3 heal, no lust/storm/banners in late p2. Always lust at p3 start, don't really need to as we've forgotten to use it before and still been fine.

[Trubo]

The second vision doesn't really change the need for 2 or 3 tanks - a third tank won't help a lot in catching the adds. So hardly matters =P. On progress we'd usually get 2x empowered whirls in P3 (occasionally skipping it), which ment heavy explosions during the second whirl due to tank-stacks. That's what I'm referring to.

I'd disagree but I'm speaking from my guild's experience of always getting one Empowered Whirling in phase 2.5 before we push, forcing our monk tank to start kiting. If we used Hero or ran with one less tank/heal we'd probably be able to push without even getting second vision, making phase 3 much easier on us. However, they don't want to do this as why fix what isn't broken.

[Dracodraco]

I'd disagree but I'm speaking from my guild's experience of always getting one Empowered Whirling in phase 2.5 before we push, forcing our monk tank to start kiting. If we used Hero or ran with one less tank/heal we'd probably be able to push without even getting second vision, making phase 3 much easier on us. However, they don't want to do this as why fix what isn't broken.

What's the issue with that, though. After the second intermission, you never need more than a single tank - the monk kiter is picking up all adds, and the solo tank resets his stacks during every whirling. As said, the only thing you concievably "gain" from 2x tanks is that you get to have 3-4 stacks of the debuff rolling on each tank to spread the damage/vengeance to two targets, rather than one tank going to 11-12 then resetting.

[Kitmajere]

Also, 3 healers is hardly the bare minimum. 2 would be a comfortable amount to run at current gear/health levels, especially if they're the better specs (resto shaman/disc for example) with a decent cd order, and the fight has been solo healed by a resto shaman. I'm pretty sure our third healer just dpses half of the fight anyways, and sometimes does the iron star in p4.

[Trubo]

What's the issue with that, though. After the second intermission, you never need more than a single tank - the monk kiter is picking up all adds, and the solo tank resets his stacks during every whirling. As said, the only thing you concievably "gain" from 2x tanks is that you get to have 3-4 stacks of the debuff rolling on each tank to spread the damage/vengeance to two targets, rather than one tank going to 11-12 then resetting.

How much damage does that explosion do at those high a stacks? Seems like we're burning everything we have to survive the one empowered whirling we get in phase 3 and even that gets dicey as is though that's probably people standing on top of one another and eating multiple add spawn explosions.

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Also, 3 healers is hardly the bare minimum. 2 would be a comfortable amount to run at current gear/health levels, especially if they're the better specs (resto shaman/disc for example) with a decent cd order, and the fight has been solo healed by a resto shaman. I'm pretty sure our third healer just dpses half of the fight anyways, and sometimes does the iron star in p4.

For 25 man?

[Dracodraco]

How much damage does that explosion do at those high a stacks? Seems like we're burning everything we have to survive the one empowered whirling we get in phase 3 and even that gets dicey as is though that's probably people standing on top of one another and eating multiple add spawn explosions.

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For 25 man?

During the first whirl, it's really not a lot. Maybe a 150K hit or so raidwide (which is diminished by all the CD's you've got up).
And yea, 2 healers is pretty comfortable, although risky if you don't have a good amount of CDs.

[Deleted]

If someone don't believe that it's possible, this is our kill.
Tags : 3 healers, BL in 2. phase, skipped 2. intermission, 3. phase with only one Empowered Whirl

[PessimiStick]

When we aren't playing like retards, we skip the 2nd intermission and then bloodlust in P3. Single tank, 3 healers. We have more problems with people not fucking up interrupts in Jade Temple than anything else (we seem to have new people/groups every week and takes an attempt or two to iron out).

Honestly I wouldn't use BL to force the skip. If you get it with raw damage -- great. If not, just AFK terrace and then kill him after. I don't think it really matters much in the end.

Edit: Last week, f.ex.: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done
We also don't kite the adds. If you kite the adds it's even easier since you will have higher DPS on Garrosh.

[Dkdots]

My guild pushes him each week with a dps carry not using BL in p2. We run with 2 disc healers, a shaman healer, a warrior tank who solo tanks the entire fight other than our BRM kiting adds, and 18 guild dps. It's not very difficult to do if you're all 585+. We never tried to use blood lust on phase 2, It seems like a big waste to me if most of bloodlust is in p2 and not p3.

[Deleted]

Did someone managed to DPS P2 before 2. intermission without BL ?

We had to start holding back DPS because for some reason if we skipped the 2nd transition altogether people would go full derp on axe placement and CD usage(even though we'd planned for it...). Generally carrying a lot of trials and friend ranks due to end of expansion AFK's didn't help either, but we're on vacation until 6.0 drops now so it doesn't really matter for us anymore.

[Dracodraco]

If someone don't believe that it's possible, this is our kill.
Tags : 3 healers, BL in 2. phase, skipped 2. intermission, 3. phase with only one Empowered Whirl

Nice necro to advertise your guild's kill. Sorry to burst your bubble, but of course people believe it's possible - the topic's almost a month old and tons and tons and TONS of guilds are doing it. Skipping intermission is more standard now than not. /rant off.

And pessimistick, if you have issues with intermission 1 interrupts, I suggest just zerging jade temple instead of all of the "organised confusion" with setting up five groups - with that, I mean:
8 Dps goes left
8 Dps goes right
2 tanks + 3 dps (the "slowest" buildup DPS, AKA feral druids/boomkins without cds put here) goes middle.

Zerg outside with 2x AOE interrupts while middle widdles their adds down, roar to get the entire raid inside, 16x dps drops whatever aoe they have while running through the middle adds that will be on 20-40% hp and they just instantly die, everyone's inside and stacks up in the middle of their assigned group (this ensures that if everyone's stacked tightly, everyone gets the buff if one "lands" on someone) and 2x aoe interrupts and done. This way all you have to assign is 2x aoe interrupts outside and inside for each side, and as long as there's a buff inside on each side, 100% of the raid will get it.
Downside to the tactic is that it's slightly less dps-efficient, but we've made the check since 571 avg ilvl, so in 585+ it should hardly be an issue.

[Deleted]

Well since we kill boss we do it by skipping entire second transmition.We do not meet any problems with phase 3 isually before second Emp WW he is in ph4 and we have prepared all our CDs to unleash there
P.S. we use only pots in p2 and have our BL for p3

[Deleted]

We've been skipping that for almost 4 months now, with 3 buyers in on every garrosh kill.

Just use bl/cds/pots/banners right after the first mc. You should be able to push it, even with 3 buyers it's barely tight for us atm.

[Dracodraco]

We've been skipping that for almost 4 months now, with 3 buyers in on every garrosh kill.

Just use bl/cds/pots/banners right after the first mc. You should be able to push it, even with 3 buyers it's barely tight for us atm.

So far, killing it in 3 different settings (main guild/pug/weekend guild) we've found that it's best to save lust till after the second MC's if you use it in P2 - reason being trinket ICDS will come off cooldown second time at that point.

[PessimiStick]

And pessimistick, if you have issues with intermission 1 interrupts, I suggest just zerging jade temple instead of all of the "organised confusion" with setting up five groups

We tend to do things the "right" way even if we don't need to. We only started burning Nazgrim through D Stance and single-tanking Garrosh a few weeks ago, even though we could have before. The idea is to keep people paying attention for progression and not get into bad habits. The real issue is just that we never have the same people week to week so someone is always doing something new and it takes an attempt or so to get the timing down (Cap. totems, f.ex.).

The real issue, IMO, is just that this tier is so incredibly old for the people that have been doing it since the start that they space out and do dumb shit sometimes.