Melee vs caster I. WoD

[Deleted]

So I read that on the beta due to the cast on the move nerfs, casters are having a hard time in pvp. Ive pretty much always played a melee in wow, I'm really not ranged minded. Saying tgat I was toying with swapping to a caster in WoD. Just for something different, I figure once I get a handle on being ranged and in the mindset it will be more comfortable.
I'm just wondering if this is still holding true or just a bit of a knee jerk that ranged will adjust to?

Any thoughts?

[cptaylor38]

So I read that on the beta due to the cast on the move nerfs, casters are having a hard time in pvp. Ive pretty much always played a melee in wow, I'm really not ranged minded. Saying tgat I was toying with swapping to a caster in WoD. Just for something different, I figure once I get a handle on being ranged and in the mindset it will be more comfortable.
I'm just wondering if this is still holding true or just a bit of a knee jerk that ranged will adjust to?

Any thoughts?

No clue in the beta but I'm more concerned about pve balance. Challenge Modes and Timeless Isle are way too unforgiving for melee. I'd like it to be balanced mechanics in pve next go around. As far as pvp goes I don't know if it really matters anyway. Class balance fluctuates so much that there is always a "flavor of the month" class and of course every individual plays differently. There will always be one player who seemingly excels beyond the imaginable for their abilities. I was hoping for an hp squish in general because I lost desire to do pvp in Mists since the damage and health extremes just make it kind of unenjoyable for me. Everything feels like I'm hitting a with a wet noodle, and it's nice to live longer in some situations but in general it just isn't the kind I prefer. I guess I miss the good ole fashioned lucky one shot chances that made you feel like a real bad ass even if you were stomped 90% of the time. Now I see a 35k crit as melee or a 100k spell as a caster and think I won the lottery. Meanwhile their health went down 2%. lol

Honestly, I think it really helps to learn the pve aspect of a class before attempting to pvp anyway. Kind of develops your skills before you just jump in and expect to be able to know what you're doing or how to put out the best damage or burst or anything. Depends on the caster too.

I don't know. Just try out different classes to be honest. Wait for the 6.0 ptr to come up and just try them all out at max level before you decide to level one and mess around on it.

The other day I did a few battlegrounds on my mage as arcane for the first time in forever and absolutely loved it even though my gear is crap. I've never been a big fan of fear spamming on my lock but it can be pretty nice to play sometimes, especially as demo because the burst can get pretty crazy.

Umm.. Ele shaman is fun sometimes. What else? Shadow priest.. I've never been particularly good at shadow priests but if nothing else it's fun psychic scream spamming in a large crowd in a battleground if only to annoy people. LOL. I've found my boomkin gets targeted immediately and dies in like 2 hits, and the damage isn't that great but I feel like that's one of those classes that requires too much skill for someone like me.

On a sidenote, just to continue ranting.

I miss the old feral spec so much. Hate the new Guardian/Feral. But I guess the overpoweredness had to be fixed at some point.

[Keyboard Champion]

If you want to play ranged in pvp do it on a mage or hunter. Hunters I can assure you they didn't get any nerfs to mobility with the exception of MM but MM sucks ass on the beta and no one is playing it.

Being a ranged class without reliable cc and gap makers, means you're melee fodder. This is why I'll never play lock, spriest, elem shaman or boomkin in pvp, because you're nothing but a fucking punching bag for melee, and this may be fine in arena when you have a healer, but in bgs, wpvp and duels it's just pathetic.

[Deleted]

Casting on the move was only introduced in Cataclysm if memory serves, so I don't think it's going to be a problem for anyone who was around before then. Never liked the change to allow casting while moving, took away the whole interaction between a melee & ranged class in pvp. Of course, it's only going to work if melee loses some gap-closers as well.

[Wow]

There are some issues on beta but its not anywhere near what the hyperbole that read on the beta forums. Most melee have wrath lvl of toolkit and casters had to cast then too and it was fine. The thing that's throwing things off is they still haven't done any tuning so you have things like chaos bolt that hits for 35k and obliterates and mortal strikes that crit for 70-100k depending on cds or not. When you have things like that its going to make things seem a lot more unbalanced. So what you get is someone that can barely do anything to someone and the other is destroying them.

Not saying there are no issues but a lot of it really is l2p. Most of melee's ways to stops casts is very similar to what it was in wrath some is even less depending how they spec. Some of the issues are some melee have to much mobility however on that same token some range still have too much roots, slows, escapes etc the issue is all of them need to come down at the same time but odds of that happening is low.

[Shisui-kun]

Most melee have more then wrath toolkits while casters have less then wrath toolkits.. Melee clearly have around Cata toolkits.

Worst off is elemental which had a 9 second earthbind totem, thunderstorm, fire nova stun instead of capacipator and astral shift. You can't tell me that a 30 second earthbind, capacipator and being worse off with glyphs since MoP has done anything good for them. Shadowpriest also had better cc and damage reduction during wrath then during WoD.

It's going to be fun kiting with anything other then survival or frosties :<

[Keyboard Champion]

It's going to be fun kiting with anything other then survival or frosties :<

Hunters still have Master's Call, Disengage webs, scatter+trap (non surv) and 4 sec cd on Concussive Shot. In 1v1 vs. melee, being Surv is just overkill and unnecesary.

I will play Surv, though, because BM makes me a sad panda when I have a rogue/warrior on me and I'm screaming "where the fuck is that spider?" or in temple of Kotmogu where it's a really stupid idea to be a hunter in mid where there is nowhere to kite melee, instead of being up on the edges where you can run from melee and you can even snipe the orb carriers without getting piled on instantly. And if you are up on the ledge and a rogue pops on you and your pet is in the mid, as BM's pet should,...man...that's just sad.

MM is currently fucked as it's a lot less mobile than BM and Surv.

[Ettan]

Hunters still have Master's Call, Disengage webs, scatter+trap (non surv) and 4 sec cd on Concussive Shot. In 1v1 vs. melee, being Surv is just overkill and unnecesary.

I will play Surv, though, because BM makes me a sad panda when I have a rogue/warrior on me and I'm screaming "where the fuck is that spider?" or in temple of Kotmogu where it's a really stupid idea to be a hunter in mid where there is nowhere to kite melee, instead of being up on the edges where you can run from melee and you can even snipe the orb carriers without getting piled on instantly. And if you are up on the ledge and a rogue pops on you and your pet is in the mid, as BM's pet should,...man...that's just sad.

MM is currently fucked as it's a lot less mobile than BM and Surv.

Scatter is gone sadly.

[Keyboard Champion]

Scatter is gone sadly.

Ah yeah, doesn't matter, scatter was mainly for making the player stand still for trap but since now traps activate instantly there is no need for scatter.

[zenga]

Casting on the move was only introduced in Cataclysm if memory serves, so I don't think it's going to be a problem for anyone who was around before then. Never liked the change to allow casting while moving, took away the whole interaction between a melee & ranged class in pvp. Of course, it's only going to work if melee loses some gap-closers as well.

Not being able to (or limited) cast while moving is allright, I believe it's even good design. However the current state of mobility is beyond retarded. Priest healers have 100% uptime on feathers, paladins have short sprints, druids have displacer beast and travel form, monks ... well monks have multiple helicopters they can use in arena. So far the healers. Melee dps ... rogues have burst of speed, monks have multiple helicopters, warriors have leap and charge, ferals, ... etc etc. It happens when you try to get off a cast, that your target disappears behind the box at the other side of the map to line of sight you, only to come back 1 second later and cc you. Currently you have to land a big cc off a smaller one (e.g. hexing out of a shockwave), which is perceived as too much cc, and they got rid of a lot of cc with WoD. But mobility is more or less untouched. And that is the reason why the game feels as stupid right now. The never ending mobility vs slow arms race.

[Wow]

Most melee have more then wrath toolkits while casters have less then wrath toolkits.. Melee clearly have around Cata toolkits.

You know most melee didn't really gain much in cata right? (other than ret which didn't have much to start with) And casters actually got a lot in cata. Anyway let me just compare a few for you since I already said mobility was an issue lets talk about ways to stop casts since that seems to be a big topic on beta.

Ways to stop casts
Wrath dk
Deathgrip
Strangulate
mind freeze
ghoul stun

Wod
Deathgrip
Strangulate/Asphyxiate
mind freeze
ghoul stun

Wrath warrior
Charge stun
Intercept stun
pummel
spell reflect

Wod
Charge stun (if spec'd)
Stormbolt/shockwave
pummel
spell reflect

Wrath rogue
Gouge
Garrote
cheap shot
kidney shot
kick

Wod
Gouge
Garrote
cheap shot
kidney shot
kick

You could put cloak and ams on on the dk and rogue but they also had both of those in wrath on the same cd as now if you want to. And wrath all the kicks were 10sec cd's and 15sec now.

Yes there are casters that are bad and there are also melee that are bad and that's something that will never change in wow things always shift around. My point in this is if you're complaining about melee having so many ways to stop casts you must be new to wow. This really is a case of cata and mop spoiling casters, yes dmg tuning needs to happen and mobility needs works but the problems on beta aren't as big as what many are claiming.

[Raldazzar]

I think conc shot is gone too iirc? but its baked into several things now.

I personally do not enjoy my hunter on the beta. it just doesn't feel right.

[Shisui-kun]

New to WoW? Playing since the second week. You also seem to be forgetting capclosers and countertalenting being a thing. Kicks were taken off the gcd, gapclosers became a lot more potent and with that damage also became way more potent for melee. Also every healer getting magic dispels compared to pre-cata has something to do with this.

Intercept required berserker stance (iirc pummel also), spell reflect defensive stance, thus a loss of rage. Things like safeguard and burst of speed pretty much negate roots or slows, which neither had back in wrath. Sublety wasn't even a good spec in wrath, so they didn't use shadowstep most of the time. Ret still has double freedoms with a little bit more cc and enhancement did get some new tools to close the gaps also. They nerfed these things a little in WoD, but it's nowhere near Wotlk levels at all. Ferals are a little bit the odd one out but too strong for the new meta regardless.

Compare that to casters that have way less toolkits then before and it becomes a problem. Fakecasting you say? Have fun facetanking 24/7 since your gapclosers are near worthless. The cc is fine, the fact that melee can negate every control a caster has is more of an issue. You can't compete with a melee face to face as an caster and neither should you be able to.

Unless you have started in Cata yourself, it would be a pretty big oversight to not consider all other changes (e.g. magic dispels) that changes a lot, especially for casters that are reliant on magic debuffs.

[Wow]

So it looks like you replied but didn't actually read anything lol. I said mobility is an issue and that's what 90% of your post is about....

Also the dispel changes of mop buffed casters not the other way around...

[PickleballAce]

You should just learn to embrace your shiny new melee buttplug.

[slime]

This is all a lie. I know that Blizz will fuck melee again. They just will - they always fuck melee. Enjoy Beta... it will be the only time melee is OP (at least some melee).

[Shisui-kun]

This is all a lie. I know that Blizz will fuck melee again. They just will - they always fuck melee. Enjoy Beta... it will be the only time melee is OP (at least some melee).

Melee has always be strong in the first 2 seasons.. casters dominate mostly in the last seasons due to scaling.

[Deleted]

Think I'm going to go with hunter.

[Shisui-kun]

So it looks like you replied but didn't actually read anything lol. I said mobility is an issue and that's what 90% of your post is about....

Also the dispel changes of mop buffed casters not the other way around...

How did it buff casters when we had alot of thrash debuffs to cover for it? Also, shaman and druid didn't have any magic dispels at all! And it seems you didn't read MY first post at all. We are talking about toolkits, not about cc only.

[Dakara]

When there were very little instant cast spells, PvP was World of Meleecraft. Now that everyone has instant spells, dots and CC, it's world of Castercontrolcraft

Here's hoping the strike a balance.