What is a "toxic" and what is a "positive" player? Who gets to decide this?

[Shinrael]

Hey guys!

You see, I have a question to ask. What is a "toxic" and what is a "positive" player?

A rather simple question at first sight. But there is another question that comes along with it: Who gets to decide this? How does one decide what is toxic and what is not?

I am not here to complain about being chat restricted or not having a ribbon. I am here because I want to know if the way I am is toxic or positive. Sounds dumb, doesn't it? If you are toxic, you are toxic. That's just how it is. Right? Well I don't think so. Because I say things such as "fuck" and "god damnit" and "damn you" and "omg" and "wtf" but I never ever meant to offend someone with those words. So it is not that simple after all. So if you still don't get it, the problem lies in understanding the intentions of others.

Now... Let me get into detail. I don't really play LoL on my own. Only when my friend is up for it as well. I openly admit that in the past I was indeed toxic. I am almost 18 now and I am talking about 2 years ago. I was toxic. And by that I mean that when someone insulted me or taunted me in-game I would go all-out and flame him. I just hate it when people refuse to understand that everyone has bad days and it happens to everyone. And that there are "circumstances". Circumstances include: jungler ganks ( both your and the enemy jungler ), AFK teammates, other lanes ( both your teammates and the enemy players ) and so on. And just one small ripple in that system of circumstances can cause a big chain of events that result in your defeat. Anyway, back on topic: This kind of attitude of people - those that were ignorant towards this system of circumstances - it really annoyed me. And when some of those people flamed me for feeding/failing I really freaked out. Now, these kind of people still annoy me, but after a special training of mine ( Don't ask ) I've learned to control my anger. This was really important for me in real life, it's just a small bonus that I no longer flame in-game as well.

But I have a problem. I have already been chat-restricted 2 times. Both times were after I had just received my awesome red ribbon for being an Honorable Opponent. And both resulted in me losing the ribbon. And no, the fact I was chat-restricted isn't the problem itself. Chat restriction for 5 games? Didn't even bother me. But the fact I was chat restricted when I was trying to be as friendly as possible in-game really insulted me. Whenever a game would start, the first thing I would say is "Good Luck and Have Fun everyone!" and I would often type a smiley when I die. We always talk on Skype with my best friend when we play LoL and whenever one of us dies we laugh hard. We find it funny. And after we are done laughing, we type "damnit xD" in the chat. Or "meanie " or "you monster! D:" or "fuck this xD" or "y u do dis to me T_T". Because that's really how I feel about it. I am being completely honest. I am not pretending that it is funny, I am not trying to hide how annoyed and/or frustrated I am. I just find it funny when I juke someone around the jungle but in the end they still catch me with the help of their teammates. And most people really get it. They often reply back with a smiley. Some even go as far as saying "Sorry man :/". I have had several games where my whole team is flaming me because I failed and lost my lane hard. But since I don't take it seriously and always laugh it off, the enemy team likes me and I end up getting 5x Honorable Opponent at the end of the game instead of the 9 reports that the guy from my team wanted me to get so much. And believe it or not, I have had a few games ( be it with full premade team or just my friend ) where the enemy team surrendered even though they were winning so hard.

I was a Lee Sin top as far as I remember. And since we were 5v5 premades, I was just trolling around. I kept flashing into enemy players just to kick them back with my R then run back. "Get the fuck out of my lane xD". And the enemy team gets the message and laugh it off with us. But in that specific game, I ended up dying waaaay too much and even some of my premades ( they are classmates of mine and usually avoid playing with me because of how much I mess around xD ) started raging at me. I even "betrayed" them and started hanging out with the enemy team. We even did a 10-player train but the enemy team killed everyone from my team except for me. And I helped them do Dragon and later Baron. And they actually let me have Baron. We had so much fun that game. My premades were mad at me, but even they couldn't stop laughing I was actually playing that game to get my First Win of the Day and had to go after that so I kinda complained a few times that "I just wanted to get my first win of the day T_T" and in the end the enemy team surrendered just for me. It's a small thing but it really made me happy. A team of 5 strangers surrendered just for me. Not for someone else from my team. For me, because they liked the way I played the game. I played it for fun before everything else.

Again, sorry for going so much off-topic, but I really want you people to understand what kind of a person I am. I mean no harm to anyone. I hate insulting and being insulted. I love peace and harmony. And I am SUPER talkative in-game. And I often say things such as "god damnit! xD" and so on ( as explained above ). And a few days ago I received my third warning for the past 2 months. It's one of those notifications you get in LoL ( not in-game but in the Home Page, the Lobby or the screen you get after ending a game ). And those warnings said that I was recently reported for excessive use of offensive language and so on. I understand that a lot of people WILL and DO report me because they probably can't stand how talkative I am or because I won my lane and they were mad at me. I understand that. And I understand that the system "thinks" that I am toxic and gives me this warning. But what about the chat restrictions and removal of the ribbon? I recently read about the new punishment system and it really worries me. I am glad to hear that they have decided to use stricter methods but it still worries me because they might actually consider me toxic and ban me without giving me the chance to defend myself. How can I possibly prove that I never meant to insult anyone with "goddamnit xD"? Nobody will come and ask me "Were you flaming there in that game?". They would just ban me and be done with it. No appeals will help afterwards either.

What I read today is that they are revamping the Tribunal and their new strict methods will apply to it as well. And this worries me even more. I've imagined the following scenario a few times: I play a game, have lots of fun, etc. Someone ( be it from my or the enemy team ) is mad at me and reports me. Not because I did something wrong but just because. And the person who reads my Tribunal case is a toxic person himself and decides to click "Punish". How can anyone prevent this? How can they be sure that this isn't going to happen? And I really won't agree if someone tells me that people who use the Tribunal wouldn't do such a thing. Because I could go to the Tribunal and do it myself right away ( as long as it still functions ). I could just select "Punish" all the time without even reading the cases. I don't get anything from doing that, but I CAN do it. And there are people out there who really enjoy causing harm to others, one way or another.

As few as my skins are, every single one of them is a gift from a friend. I would feel really guilty if my account gets banned and all those skins go to waste. I would feel terrible if I lose my precious Summoner Name as well. I would feel terrible if all the effort and time I've put into my account goes to waste. But what I would hate more than anything else is being accused and punished when I am innocent ( No, I am not saying that I am, but IF I am, and still get banned, I would hate it. ). One of the things I hate most in life is injustice. I've been accused falsely so many times that it is now a taboo for me. One of the few things that still gets on my nerves nowadays. And I really wish that it doesn't happen to me again, be it in League of Legends or real life.



Woah, what a long post So, can someone tell me if I really am toxic or positive? Will you please give me insight on who decides who is toxic and who is positive? Thank you in advance!

[Revi]

TLDR please

My definition is pretty much:
Do you make others playing experience better? Positive.
Do you make others playing experience worse? Toxic.

You should be able to figure out who one of those you belong to..

As for who decides? The players do. You will never reach a consensus on what traits are toxic or not, but the majority are intelligent and adult enough to tell when certain behavior negatively influences others.
Toxic social aspects can be non-constructive feedback, unwarranted insults, threats, intentional broaching subjects that make people uncomfortable, disrupting conversation, spamming etc.
Toxic in terms of gameplay can be ninja pulling, intentionally causing other to die, ninja looting, griefing, disrupting gameplay (reseting bosses for example), and any other way to negatively and maliciously effect other players.

There's no one person/group deciding what's toxic, but as a community people will quickly discover what sorts of behavior they don't accept.

[Shinrael]

TLDR please

My definition is pretty much:
Do you make others playing experience better? Positive.
Do you make others playing experience worse? Toxic.

You should be able to figure out who one of those you belong to..

As for who decides? The players do. You will never reach a consensus on what traits are toxic or not, but the majority are intelligent and adult enough to tell when certain behavior negatively influences others.
Toxic social aspects can be non-constructive feedback, unwarranted insults, threats, intentional broaching subjects that make people uncomfortable, disrupting conversation, spamming etc.
Toxic in terms of gameplay can be ninja pulling, intentionally causing other to die, ninja looting, griefing, disrupting gameplay (reseting bosses for example), and any other way to negatively and maliciously effect other players.

There's no one person/group deciding what's toxic, but as a community people will quickly discover what sorts of behavior they don't accept.

But we are talking about communcation here. Now, I know that I am in the wrong when I block a teammate with Anivia's W and get him killed. That is obviously intentional.

But what about behaviour and communication? Those do not affect playing experience directly. If someone is annoying you, whether he is flaming you or just talking too much, you can just mute him. But how do people decide if my message "goddamnit xD" is toxic or not? :/

[Duilliath]

So far, I've seen one person get their chat restrictions lifted for it not being correct. And this person was using a ton of negative language, except only directed at themselves.

Every other single example was toxic as fuck and should've received a perma ban instead.

So, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume that these punishments were fully deserved.

Do note that fuck, goddamnit etc are not necessarily reasons to get banned.

"Damn, I fucked up" is fine.
"Damn you stupid fucker, why the hell don't you uninstall" is not fine.

Same words, different intent.

If you are really curious, simply go read through the last hundred Lyte / Wookiecookiee posts to get a better idea of what is acceptable and what is not. There examples of positive / neutral players as well.

[Shinrael]

"Damn, I fucked up" is fine.
"Damn you stupid fucker, why the hell don't you uninstall" is not fine.

Same words, different intent.

My point exactly ^^

If you are really curious, simply go read through the last hundred Lyte / Wookiecookiee posts to get a better idea of what is acceptable and what is not. There examples of positive / neutral players as well.

Could you do me a favour and link me to those posts? I am indeed curious to see, thanks in advance!

[Revi]

But we are talking about communcation here. Now, I know that I am in the wrong when I block a teammate with Anivia's W and get him killed. That is obviously intentional.

But what about behaviour and communication? Those do not affect playing experience directly. If someone is annoying you, whether he is flaming you or just talking too much, you can just mute him. But how do people decide if my message "goddamnit xD" is toxic or not? :/

Yeah, but they decide based on how they interpret it. You might not mean to offend, but for someone who only has your text to go on, it might seem that way. Text might not directly impact someone, but neither does people swearing at you IRL, that doesn't mean you're fine with it. Words can offend, and they can make people dislike you so much that they report you, so if you're going to be using coarse language make sure your message/intent is obvious.

[Shinrael]

Yeah, but they decide based on how they interpret it. You might not mean to offend, but for someone who only has your text to go on, it might seem that way. Text might not directly impact someone, but neither does people swearing at you IRL, that doesn't mean you're fine with it. Words can offend, and they can make people dislike you so much that they report you, so if you're going to be using coarse language make sure your message/intent is obvious.

I guess you are right :/

[Unholyground]

One thing I have noticed, most toxic players I have encountered are usually DPS or healers/tanks with complexes. Having done all the roles and done them well and enjoyed them I find myself helping people from danger all the time, especially on the timeless isles, tanking something someone ran into by accident or helping heal someone that was having trouble. Those are the kinds of players we need more of.

[Shinrael]

One thing I have noticed, most toxic players I have encountered are usually DPS or healers/tanks with complexes. Having done all the roles and done them well and enjoyed them I find myself helping people from danger all the time, especially on the timeless isles, tanking something someone ran into by accident or helping heal someone that was having trouble. Those are the kinds of players we need more of.

Well, I often do it myself :P

A bit off-topic, but I remember back in Cata, I was flying over Westfall on my level 60 mage, and I saw a low level player fighting against several mobs, he was just about to die, so I jumped off my mount, used Slow Fall on myself and killed the mobs while I was still falling via Scorch and Fireblast and also used some AoE when I was close to landing. The guy turned out to be a guildmate of mine. The next day I was flying over Redridge Mountains, right over that castle full of Orcs. And I saw that same guy in the same situation as last time. Saved him once again. I was like a guardian angel xD Literally descending from the sky like an angel and saving his life xD

[Duilliath]

Could you do me a favour and link me to those posts? I am indeed curious to see, thanks in advance!

http://www.reignofgaming.net/redtracker?page=2

For some reason the red tracker (including the official riot one!) is missing a crapton of his discussion. Not sure where it all went.

- - - Updated - - -

Scrounged up one of the other threads: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=49349879#post49349879

[Duronos]

So far, I've seen one person get their chat restrictions lifted for it not being correct. And this person was using a ton of negative language, except only directed at themselves.

Every other single example was toxic as fuck and should've received a perma ban instead.

So, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume that these punishments were fully deserved.

Do note that fuck, goddamnit etc are not necessarily reasons to get banned.

"Damn, I fucked up" is fine.
"Damn you stupid fucker, why the hell don't you uninstall" is not fine.

Same words, different intent.

If you are really curious, simply go read through the last hundred Lyte / Wookiecookiee posts to get a better idea of what is acceptable and what is not. There examples of positive / neutral players as well.

Had my chat restriction removed for it being incorrect.

[Jordaen]

Whenever I'm playing a game and let's say, as a support, I get caught warding and I die. If someone on my team types "wtf" I'm going to assume that they weren't really paying attention to what I was doing (as in, I may have been near them and was running to them, or I wasn't that deep in the jungle and only warding behind red etc) and simply saw that I died and decided that saying what the fuck is more constructive than saying "hey next time ping me and I'll come with." If this person that said "wtf" continues to say things like that then I'll mute, report for negative attitude and move on with my day.

If someone on my team is trying to help the enemy team because he thinks it's funny, he's trolly, or he has friends on the other team I'll report him too. We're here to win on OUR side, not to assist the enemy, especially in premades. I don't think I'd ever queue with you if you screwed around in a premade, OP. Sure, it's a game, you can play it how you want, but to some people it's beyond frustrating to be doing nearly everything that they can possibly be doing to help their team win but they simply can't because one guy decides that he wants to make it 6v4.

[prwraith]

I recognize myself as a toxic player. I have 0 patience for failure. Resultingly when I raid i call people on their shit and their bullshit excuses constantly.

Which is why I don't raid anymore, I recognize I'm not fun to raid with.

[tj119]

In low lvl BGs when a player without BoAs joins, that's toxic.

[Belize]

In low lvl BGs when a player without BoAs joins, that's toxic.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be purposefully ironic...

[Last Starfighter]

I just farted

Discuss

Infracted. Stay on topic - Axethor

[Tyrgannus]

I recognize myself as a toxic player. I have 0 patience for failure. Resultingly when I raid i call people on their shit and their bullshit excuses constantly.

Which is why I don't raid anymore, I recognize I'm not fun to raid with.

I have evolved into the "Michael Jackson eating popcorn" equivalent in pugging. I assume people will screw up and I assume people like you will yell at them. Once you expect drama, it's less infuriating and just kind of funny to watch.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I honestly don't think either exsists. Really the lable is do you have and share an opinion, do you not have or share an opinion, and finally do you just troll for a reaction. The reason your two things don't really exsist is they are very subjective. One mans bad is another hero. Someone people disagree with is who someone else agrees with. Lines to to blurred to be defined along the lines of good and bad / toxic and postive.

1. You have an opinion and share it:
Pretty much you make up your mind and let the world know. This works both ways. Those that agree with you think you are helpful and trying to build, learn, and explore along side the community. Those that disagree think you are trolling, white knight/anti-"company", or an idiot. Granted this isn't a 100% absolute since some people are reasonable (everyone believes they are, but heh you have seen the no flying thread). But with it being the internet, it being about a video game, and if you get more specific here on MMO-Champion odds of that are pretty low same with LoL. It is either black and white or bust most the time.

2. You don't have opinions or share them:
Pretty cut and dry really this is the back bone of the whole community. This is what most people are. For a lot of reasons really. First being they just don't care enough or want to invest a ton of time into it, and that is fair enough. Second is they don't want to get caught up in the mess they see all over the place. Or finally just don't know plane and simple which likely is the bingo for most people involved in this massive LoL "community"

3. Just trollin for a reaction:
This goes both ways. Most people think it is only the negitive kind that rolls. But I have seen a whole lot of people troll something to the positive end of things as well. But these people usually just toss out the opinion they feel will get the group to react the way they want them too. That is why I don't put all trolling as negtive or toxic. Any type of promotion or hype is just the spinned side of trolling and one mans troll is another mans hype and vice-versa.

[Deleted]

League of legends making people constantly fake niceness by lying in the chat and not say what you really feel must be good for ones psyche.

[Tyrgannus]

I honestly don't think either exsists. Really the lable is do you have and share an opinion, do you not have or share an opinion, and finally do you just troll for a reaction. The reason your two things don't really exsist is they are very subjective. One mans bad is another hero. Someone people disagree with is who someone else agrees with. Lines to to blurred to be defined along the lines of good and bad / toxic and postive.

1. You have an opinion and share it:
Pretty much you make up your mind and let the world know. This works both ways. Those that agree with you think you are helpful and trying to build, learn, and explore along side the community. Those that disagree think you are trolling, white knight/anti-"company", or an idiot. Granted this isn't a 100% absolute since some people are reasonable (everyone believes they are, but heh you have seen the no flying thread). But with it being the internet, it being about a video game, and if you get more specific here on MMO-Champion odds of that are pretty low same with LoL. It is either black and white or bust most the time.

2. You don't have opinions or share them:
Pretty cut and dry really this is the back bone of the whole community. This is what most people are. For a lot of reasons really. First being they just don't care enough or want to invest a ton of time into it, and that is fair enough. Second is they don't want to get caught up in the mess they see all over the place. Or finally just don't know plane and simple which likely is the bingo for most people involved in this massive LoL "community"

3. Just trollin for a reaction:
This goes both ways. Most people think it is only the negitive kind that rolls. But I have seen a whole lot of people troll something to the positive end of things as well. But these people usually just toss out the opinion they feel will get the group to react the way they want them too. That is why I don't put all trolling as negtive or toxic. Any type of promotion or hype is just the spinned side of trolling and one mans troll is another mans hype and vice-versa.

There is no good and evil. There is only power and those too weak to seek it