What your 15 dollars a month pays for...

[borgarr]

Michael Phelps doesn't come to my local swimming pool and scream that letting scrubs experience swimming devalues his accomplishments. Probably because he HAS actual accomplishments and isn't a fat nerd hanging his self-esteem on video game bullshit.

Please don't compare this raid shit to athletics or anything else society actually cares about. If any prominent athlete expressed the sort of shrill, fearful, petty exclusionism that defines the hardcore MMO community, they would instantly become a complete laughingstock.

God can you imagine if Tiger Woods showed up for an interview and started talking about how suburban golf courses should be shut down, only real pros should be allowed to see a course, and everyone else should go fuck themselves and play mini-golf? He'd be reviled as an asshole.

Yet this is somehow standard procedure for you guys.

I bet you he would if his sponsors turned around and said "sorry we are paying you the same as that fat guy over there that can't swim" he would soon scream and shout about it not that i care since i don't raid;P

[zoomgpally]

I am sure Blizzard is happier with the 15 dollars of the guy who plays casually for 1 hr every other day than the self-proclaimed hardcore who plays 6 hrs a day and constantly tells them how much they suck and how lazy they are.

Nah..at the end of the day, they like both..because BOTH PAY!

And even if both shut up and play, they will like the player playing less as he is putting less load on the servers.

[Saxtorph]

LOL. This is awesome.

I'll never understand why the high end tier think they're special, or why people put them on pedestals.

There is absolutely NOTHING special about ANYONE that plays WoW that would make me want to watch a Twitch feed or whatever, or...whatever. They're coordinated button pushers, yet brainless fools in the gaming community put these special snowflakes on pedestals as if they actually contributed something to society.

"OH OH but they give to charity on their Twitch feeds, and YouTube channels!"

Yeah but they have taken more out of the economy by living off welfare because they don't have a job due to their 80 hour a week WoW habit.

No one does, but they think we should.

[Pull My Finger]

I still hear this from time-to-time. "I pay the same 15 dollars a month that geared raiders pay. I should be able to get the same epics they do even though I'm a casual player who can only play for 10 minutes a day."

I honestly doubt you do. In fact, I think you're straight up lying.

[MathAddict]

I agree with the notion that $15 a month buys access and equal opportunity that every player has.

I also think though that Blizzard needs casual styled gear progression for non raiders. I personally thought timeless gear seemed like a great way to offer that to a more casual crowd. It takes all kinds of people to prop up an MMO and everyone should have some sort of time sink from heroic raiding to dungeon grinding casual players.

However, raid gear should stay the highest ilvl and only be obtainable from raids.

[Chisato]

I don't understand the sense of entitlement that some MMORPG players have, especially when you compare their whining/arguments against other games.

"I paid $60 for Call of Duty just like the other guys but I'm not at the top of the rankings! NO FAIR! WAAAHHHH!"

"I paid $60 for Final Fantasy XXI but I messed up and didn't complete a quest for a rare item in time. Now I can't get the item. NO FAIR! WAAAHHHH!!"

Paying for a game gives you access to the content in the game but doesn't earn the rewards for you, doesn't play the game for you, doesn't put your name at the top of a chart of the best players. TBH this is the type of inane shit that happens when you reward everyone with a trophy, even those who don't deserve one. Now everyone expects a trophy or a gold star for doing absolutely fuck all.

[Slacker]

Michael Phelps doesn't come to my local swimming pool and scream that letting scrubs experience swimming devalues his accomplishments. Probably because he HAS actual accomplishments and isn't a fat nerd hanging his self-esteem on video game bullshit.

Equivalent to top tier wow raider having issues when casual players make a group of 5 and go in Ragefire Chasm.

Raids are the ultimate endgame in WoW, like Olympics are for Phelps. I don't see recreational athletes there.

[Pann]

I don't understand the sense of entitlement that some MMORPG players have, especially when you compare their whining/arguments against other games.

"I paid $60 for Call of Duty just like the other guys but I'm not at the top of the rankings! NO FAIR! WAAAHHHH!"

"I paid $60 for Final Fantasy XXI but I messed up and didn't complete a quest for a rare item in time. Now I can't get the item. NO FAIR! WAAAHHHH!!"

Paying for a game gives you access to the content in the game but doesn't earn the rewards for you, doesn't play the game for you, doesn't put your name at the top of a chart of the best players. TBH this is the type of inane shit that happens when you reward everyone with a trophy, even those who don't deserve one. Now everyone expects a trophy or a gold star for doing absolutely fuck all.

I don't suppose it has occurred to you that the people who come with these ridiculous straw-man arguments about casuals/scrubs/noobs are the actual entitled ones? Without the money coming from there people you have no content to stroke your fragile egos. Not only do you expect them to pay for the content you enjoy you also look down on them for not devoting themselves to it.

Funny you should mention getting a gold star for doing fuck all because in the big wide world that is exactly what people think you are doing with WOW.

[ablib]

No one does, but they think we should.

People do, unfortunately. There are a group of troubled individuals out there who think Swifty is a god, or Athene, or members of Blood Legion, etc...but probably couldn't tell you one basic thing about their government. Like who Eric Holder is (if you're in the USA).

[Pull My Finger]

Equivalent to top tier wow raider having issues when casual players make a group of 5 and go in Ragefire Chasm.

Raids are the ultimate endgame in WoW, like Olympics are for Phelps. I don't see recreational athletes there.

This is so nonsensical, it almost makes a sound.

[Djuntas]

We'll inn MOP its been exclusively to kill time, and try have fun inn the game. The fun has ended fast and I was unable to kill time aswell every time I subbed (but last time really - thinking about re-sub soon again), so yea...

[StinkyPete]

Raids are the ultimate endgame in WoW, like Olympics are for Phelps. I don't see recreational athletes there.

What the hell do you think they do with those Olympic swimming pools the rest of the time? Surround them with armed guards to keep scrubs from making use of the "content" and devaluing the Olympics? No, they open them up to people of other skill levels. They even have other less important competitions in them sometimes that aren't the Olympics at all, and some of those competitions even award their own medals!

You really think any Olympic athlete gives a shit? They'd be laughed out of their sport if they did.

God even competetive FPS players don't give a shit that scrubs get to play on the same maps. For some reason this bullshit mental illness that keeps people from being able to understand the concept of "multiple difficulty levels" only seems to manifest in the moribund, backwards, obsolete, slowly dying hardcore MMO community.

[Zoldor]

I bet you he would if his sponsors turned around and said "sorry we are paying you the same as that fat guy over there that can't swim" he would soon scream and shout about it not that i care since i don't raid;P

Not the same, LFR people don't get the same thing Heroic raiders do. That comparison is wrong.

[Zoldor]

Raids are the ultimate endgame in WoW, like Olympics are for Phelps. I don't see recreational athletes there.

Raids/pvp are the organized sports of WoW. Just like any other sport there is your local Sunday league (LFR) and your professional/Olympic league (Mythic/Heroic). You were close, but not completely right.

The term raid is like the term Soccer/futbol. I play soccer in my free time, Messi plays soccer professionally. We both play the exact same game, just mine is easier and against a weaker opponent. Messi gets paid and plays a far greater opponent.

Me playing on the weekends and winning my weekend leauge doesn't depreciate Messi's Ballon D'or, UCL Title, or La Liga Titles. I don't feel entitled to what Messi has, but because soccer exists I feel like I should be able to at least play it at my own level and earn my own meaningless awards.

[Amerissis]

I should be able to get the same epics they do even though I'm a casual player who can only play for 10 minutes a day."

I've heard this too, but only from the mouth of so-called hardcores who want to belittle 'casuals' and make any argument ridiculous. No casual ever asked for 'the same epics' or 'play 10 minutes a day'.

My take is, flamebait. Also, I pay for access to my account. That's all. Doesn't mean I don't want ways to improve my character besides endgame raiding.

[Deleted]

they should change payment method to pas as you go - pay as you progress
if you stuck on LFR or Flex fee should be lower comparing to mythic raiders

[Deleted]

What? You pay less for being unskilled?

not unskilled just can't dedicate 8 hours a day to be competitive

[DeltrusDisc]

Agreed with the OP. Whenever people have said this it has driven me nuts.

I'm one of those people now who can't play that much, but you know what? I'm not bitching, because the people that can play more have earned it. I'm earning other things by working more now. :P

[NecroVane]

I still hear this from time-to-time. "I pay the same 15 dollars a month that geared raiders pay. I should be able to get the same epics they do even though I'm a casual player who can only play for 10 minutes a day."

I have always been of the opinion that my 15 dollars was for access to the online world and nothing else. I don't have to raid. I don't have to pvp, or quest or level or even fish if I don't want to. I'm not entitled to anything in the game that I haven't earned through the established methods. If I had my way, you'd only be able to get pve epics and higher from actual raiding (which isn't LFR) and some professions. Dungeons, including heroics? Blues.

That's my take.

Pretty much the same thing i, and most reasonable people, have been saying since wrath started handing out epics like candy on Halloween. But people are spoiled little s*its and want everything handed to them, which has led to the game becoming so easy and convenient that most people burn out on the content in a month or so and complain there's nothing left. Stuff like LFR, that gives the illusion of success without any of the effort, absolutely destroys a game like this, and it's borne of the idea that paying your entry fee entitles you to success. Last time i checked, buying halo didn't entitle you to see the game's ending on legendary difficulty, so why would it be any different in an mmo.

[Zoldor]

I've heard this too, but only from the mouth of so-called hardcores who want to belittle 'casuals' and make any argument ridiculous. No casual ever asked for 'the same epics' or 'play 10 minutes a day'.

I am starting to believe this is the truth behind all of this and most of these ideas about entitlement come from it being a huge buzzword on TV and used by people to manipulate outcomes. In the WoW sense its people who hate LFR trying to convince others that LFR is bad and create an outcry to remove LFR. I never see LFR people making these complaints. Link me the posts where its happened.