Gamergate - OP updated 27 October

[Pann]

Hate campaigns are fine when you sell your integrity for profit. There should be more personal attacks for that garbage. We have bank CEO's who go to jail for doing the exact same shit. Are you saying that X amount of money which isnt yours in either scenarios justifies witch hunts. But when little nobody journalists do it we should just let them do their thing because its the assumed standard?

Hate campaigns are never fine. But I can only suggest that since your are in such favour of them you stop hiding behind an anonymous persona. We have bank CEOs going to jail for cheating on their partners? Are you sure?

[prwraith]

Serious? Do you think that Sony, Microsoft, Blizzard, Activision, EA will continue to give free stuff to people that do not support them? And given that the financial success of such sites is dependant on having access to these companies' products do you really think they will do anything to jeopardise their relationship with said companies?

It strikes me that someone that does not fully understand the issues in front of them is not best person to tackle such issues.

If that's all journalism is, get free stuff give free positive reviews. It's not journalism and is inherently disingenuous to the facts.

If that's what you believe journalism should continue to be you're willingly and knowingly buying into a culture of lies. This is not ok.

Just because historically that's how something works does not mean that's how it SHOULD work.

[Remilia]

Serious? Do you think that Sony, Microsoft, Blizzard, Activision, EA will continue to give free stuff to people that do not support them? And given that the financial success of such sites is dependant on having access to these companies' products do you really think they will do anything to jeopardise their relationship with said companies?

It strikes me that someone that does not fully understand the issues in front of them is not best person to tackle such issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

[Pann]

I didn't cheat on anyone with 5 guys (or girls). I didn't try to manipulate anyone because of the mistakes I made. I didn't promise to better myself and then continued to do the same shit. I wasn't given the chance to come clean and then continued to lie for my own benefit.

We're talking about a person who quite clearly strategically used lies in order to manipulate people and benefit herself. A person like that I would never trust, and your whiteknighting is obvious.

But by your own admission you still lied and being a self confessed liar why should I believe that you've never cheated on anyone with 5 guys (or girls)? Maybe you're telling the truth and it was six guys or girls. I mean it is not like you can say otherwise it is your word against mine and you're liar.

Do you see where I am going with this?

Her cheating on her boyfriend is neither here nor there. It is none of your business! She is not running for office so let it go. You don't have to trust her but you don't have to start throwing insults her way.

[Deleted]

But by your own admission you still lied and being a self confessed liar why should I believe that you've never cheated on anyone with 5 guys (or girls)? Maybe you're telling the truth and it was six guys or girls. I mean it is not like you can say otherwise it is your word against mine and you're liar.

Do you see where I am going with this?

Her cheating on her boyfriend is neither here nor there. It is none of your business! She is not running for office so let it go. You don't have to trust her but you don't have to start throwing insults her way.

I've tried to explain several times the differences in telling little lies, especially to not hurt the feelings of others, and the shit Zoe did, if you don't understand this, or pretend to not understand it, I'm not gonna waste anymore time.

[Deleted]

Her cheating on her boyfriend is neither here nor there. It is none of your business!

It's not that she cheated, nor is it how many people she cheated with. It's who.

Just like it wouldn't matter if Obama cheated on Michelle with 10 random people, but it would matter if he was on the campaign trail and slept with 10 political journalists.

[Pann]

If that's all journalism is, get free stuff give free positive reviews. It's not journalism and is inherently disingenuous to the facts.

If that's what you believe journalism should continue to be you're willingly and knowingly buying into a culture of lies. This is not ok.

Just because historically that's how something works does not mean that's how it SHOULD work.

No that is not all journalism is I can only suggest that you open your browser to other sites such as the BBC. You will see that a journalist was brutally murdered just this week and how inconsequential your complaints about giving a game 7 out of 10 instead of a 5 are.

As I said you do not seem to understand the processes going on behind gaming journalism and until such a time as you wake up to the very obvious reality then your comments are all but useless.

[prwraith]

No that is not all journalism is I can only suggest that you open your browser to other sites such as the BBC. You will see that a journalist was brutally murdered just this week and how inconsequential your complaints about giving a game 7 out of 10 instead of a 5 are.

As I said you do not seem to understand the processes going on behind gaming journalism and until such a time as you wake up to the very obvious reality then your comments are all but useless.

I see now, you're apathetic and are preaching an apathetic view. Nothing to see here folks.

[AeneasBK]

Some points for those who don't want to watch the video:

TFYC was started by a white male businessman. Initially he didn't reveal anything about himself because he didn't want to be in the spotlight. The doxxing that occurred off the back of Zoe's tirade saw an end to his anonymity.
He would put down a bond to get the pitch made, then get his money back when the game is made (no profit to himself).
The goal was to get them a pitch made by professionals, using their idea, so they could secure funding to get the full game made after he was hearing about the way women indies and other minorities with no experience or team were treated by suits.

The link in the video info was better:

http://i.imgur.com/hP7Ncsw.jpg

[Deleted]

inconsequential your complaints about giving a game 7 out of 10 instead of a 5 are.

Videogames have been outperforming... well, everything, for years now. It's a huge industry that consumers spend a lot of money on. It's not inconsequential.

[Deleted]

It's not that she cheated, nor is it how many people she cheated with. It's who.

Just like it wouldn't matter if Obama cheated on Michelle with 10 random people, but it would matter if he was on the campaign trail and slept with 10 political journalists.

It does matter though, either way, it shows that person shouldn't be trusted.

And it's not just the cheating, it's the way she handled the situation. He found out about it, she cried and said she would better herself, and then cheated again. Then lied about it. Then when he found out and told her, she lied about it. Then when he called her out on being a liar, she lied about lying.

[Pann]

I've tried to explain several times the differences in telling little lies, especially to not hurt the feelings of others, and the shit Zoe did, if you don't understand this, or pretend to not understand it, I'm not gonna waste anymore time.

Why do you get to judge the scale of your lies? Surely that is down to group of complete strangers?

You don't know what she did other than cheat on her boyfriend which is none of yours, mine or anyone else that posts in this threads business.

[AeneasBK]

Just like it wouldn't matter if Obama cheated on Michelle with 10 random people, but it would matter if he was on the campaign trail and slept with 10 political journalists.

And in exactly the same way, the same naive people would be the ones affected, and most of the population wouldn't be believing jack shit that came out of a political journalists mouth

[Mormolyce]

P.S. Out of interest I googled this thing, apparently despite these accusations that she slept around to get good reviews, there's no evidence any such reviews exist.

Literally the only thing relevant in any of that is that she had sex with the reviewer, and that's only relevant if she did so before the review came out. And, even then, I can't even find his supposed review of the game. I've found him pointing out the game existed in a news article, but nothing close to an actual review.

So, unless someone can link me his actual review of the game (where I expect to see corruption levels of praise), what we have here is a bunch of people pretending that games media not reporting on a woman's adultery is evidence of some feminist conspiracy.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/foru...ng-controversy

also, google 'nathan grayson depression quest review.' if you find anything, congratulations, you live in an alternate dimension

https://twitter.com/Vahn16/status/501650041736396801

^ Twitter feed of the guy accused of sleeping with her and giving her a good review.

Every day, approximately 43 billion new indie games spring into existence from mysterious ethers far outside the realm of human comprehension. We approach these portals into The Beyond with great apprehension, then we scuttle away with our bounty, arms and hearts full of excitement and terror. We call this process “game development,” and it will probably bring about the end of the world. Until then, though, someone needs to curate these things, so Valve blasts new finds with its organizational death laser, Steam Greenlight. Yep, that’s exactly how it all works and this is not just me filling space because I’ve written far too many Greenlight posts at all. Anyway, standouts: powerful Twine darling Depression Quest, surrealist Thief usurper Tangiers, and sidescrolling epic Treasure Adventure World.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/depression-quest/

The "review".

Who also posted something else again. He obviously has some truth to it.

So if I say the sky is green twice it's more likely I'm telling the truth the second time?

I believe one of the five has come forth confessing he did sleep with her.

Can you point me to this?

[Deleted]

The link in the video info was better:

http://i.imgur.com/hP7Ncsw.jpg

I missed that link, cheers. Had seen it before but couldn't find it. But yeah, it's not just them going on a reddit rant with no proof of what she did; it's all still there on twitter. She instigated a twitterstorm to remove them as competition, knowing she was set to profit from it.

[AeneasBK]

Videogames have been outperforming... well, everything, for years now. It's a huge industry that consumers spend a lot of money on. It's not inconsequential.

Which kinda feeds into his point. When all the massive companies are doing the pay-for-favours stuff, why everyone is getting so 100-pages rant about this much less significant wedge of the market is kinda silly.

At least insofar as the "journalistic integrity" line goes

[Bad Ashe]

lol, the feminist in action, from 2009: http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...&defid=3754302

[Tharkkun]

Are you even serious now? You mean like cheating on her boyfriend with 5 guys, lying about it, then lying about lying about it, being given a chance to come clean and still lying about it, trying to manipulate her boyfriend, making him feel bad when she was the one doing all the wrong things. How do I know I have never done that?

Why are you defending this person you don't even know when all evidence points against her?

I don't mean to be rude by replying to Pann's post but none of that has anything to do with her job. Zero. This is why social media is bad. You don't buy a product based on who the developer screwed last week, whether they are faithful, gay or if they had 3 children out of wedlock. None of that matters. It doesn't make you a better game developer. That boyfriend is a douche and should be sued for slander but she took the wrong approach.

Btw, if you really think game reviews are biased in any way you need to get out more. Reviews by companies like pcgamer, kotaku, etc have been biased since the 90's when we purchased physical copies. You write a good review in exchange for advance copies, betas and free advertising.

There was a premiere online game review website called OGR. They shunned the major companies by accepting no free bribes. Some of the most scathing reviews came out of their website and the game publishers could no nothing about it? Guess why? They also ran a major pirated software distribution group so they had access to 0 day games and betas. Eventually they were purchased by HappyPuppy and disappeared. This was 19 years ago...

The point is the game review industry is extremely dishonest and her actions don't surprise me one bit.

[Pann]

It's not that she cheated, nor is it how many people she cheated with. It's who.

Just like it wouldn't matter if Obama cheated on Michelle with 10 random people, but it would matter if he was on the campaign trail and slept with 10 political journalists.

Why? I think it would matter if Obama cheated with ten random people the position he holds is founded on trust, whereas games developers not so much, and cheating on your wife is an untrustworthy act. Do you not think that if you see games and the political process on similar level that your priorities are a little messed up?

[Deleted]

Which kinda feeds into his point. When all the massive companies are doing the pay-for-favours stuff, why everyone is getting so 100-pages rant about this much less significant wedge of the market is kinda silly.

Because it confirms what everyone has been thinking for a while now. Yeah, everybody reads a 97/100 review and goes "pft, probably paid for" when it's EAs latest release. When it's even trickling down to the way indies (supposedly the saviours of gaming, depending who you believe) are acting, and how these so-called "professionals" at places like Kotaku are acting, it shines a light on it and really shows us that you can't trust any of them on anything anymore. They're petrified of fairly honest youtubers like TotalBiscuit (inb4 bias, I actually hate him and can dig up posts of mine if you want proof) who will actually destroy a bad game in a video, who have vastly larger audiences that are taking viewership, and money, out of their pockets, and who tell people not to trust traditional reviewers, which is why they've created this network of everyone covering one another's arses while they go on a crusade against gamers.

It needs reform, people need to be held accountable, and to the same standards that mainstream media is with regards to transparency and full disclosure. That every major gaming publication failed the journalistic standards analysis really says it all.

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whereas games developers not so much

Game reviewers, very much. Again, it's not about how many; it's who.