Gamergate - OP updated 27 October

[Wilian]

I know one time was because of his comments towards Ian Miles Cheong, reprehensible, maybe snide, but the guy did have some previous beliefs that paint him in a poor light and can't be buried.

Ian Miles Cheong is quite self-hating nazi. I had the "pleasure" of reading through his beautiful world views on other forum before he made the 180 and became SJW. It's quite hard to find as despicable human being as he is.

[Durandro]

Considering it's been somewhat slow, have a new article from William Usher detailing
the inaccuracies with the Wikipedia article: http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/201...-of-gamergate/

Yep. This whole situation made me realise how awful Wikipedia really is. It can't be trusted when it won't even give sources or citations. Hense its on my boycott list along with all the other terrible SJW e-rags.

Also, Will Wheaton is on Jesse Cox's latest video in a Multiplayer Dragon Age game. Urgh. Why, Jesse? Wheaton isn't just an SJW, he's a nasty mouthed one who's openly attacked people for no reason at all. Just when I thought we could forgive him for Wesley Crusher. What an ass.

[OrcsRLame]

Yep. This whole situation made me realise how awful Wikipedia really is. It can't be trusted when it won't even give sources or citations. Hense its on my boycott list along with all the other terrible SJW e-rags.

Also, Will Wheaton is on Jesse Cox's latest video in a Multiplayer Dragon Age game. Urgh. Why, Jesse? Wheaton isn't just an SJW, he's a nasty mouthed one who's openly attacked people for no reason at all. Just when I thought we could forgive him for Wesley Crusher. What an ass.

I can guarantee, the reason Jesse is associating with Wil Wheaton is because he does not care about, or look into Gamergate. And that's not a bad thing. Jesse is just a guy that wants to have fun and play video games. He goes through life with an almost child-like innocence and it's what's so endearing about him. I don't want to speak for Jesse, but I really don't believe he's the kind of person that would disassociate with someone for their political views or for bad things they've said in the past.

One time, I was having a philosophical discussion with my brother, and he told me something that I think will stick with me for the rest of my life. Not everyone is meant to be a warrior. Some people just aren't capable of being fighters and they won't take up arms in defense of themselves or those they love. That doesn't mean these people aren't worth protecting, rather, those that are comfortable with fighting have a responsibility to protect the non-combatants.

That doesn't just apply to real war, it applies to all sorts of conflicts. Jesse is not going to be on the front lines of Gamergate giving people the business, it's just not in his nature. When people are fighting to get rid of corruption in games and games journalism, in part, they're fighting for people like Jesse, whether they realize it or not. I'd be heartbroken if the ugliest parts of this controversy started appearing on Jesse's youtube channel, so please, be nice to the Cox, even if you don't like some of the people he hangs out with.

[Durandro]

I can guarantee, the reason Jesse is associating with Wil Wheaton is because he does not care about, or look into Gamergate.

He did briefly. But I think the backlash made him rethink it, and now he's doing the "both sides are assholes" approach and trying to avoid it.

Oh, and I don't blame Jesse. I blame Wil Wheaton.

[Yriel]

He did briefly. But I think the backlash made him rethink it, and now he's doing the "both sides are assholes" approach and trying to avoid it.

Oh, and I don't blame Jesse. I blame Wil Wheaton.

And that is really sad because Wil Wheaton is actually a really cool guy. I read his blog for quite some time and really like his tabletop videos. He is as nerdy as you can get. I really don't understand the fervor that many of those SJW have, in the end we are talking about twitter and video games. All those "should be put in concentration camps" and "i will singlehandedly kill any..." tweets, come on. It's women in videogames. I really can't imagine a less relevant topic in todays world to get so angry about. You can talk about that, you can be in favor or against the "progressive" agenda but all those threats and despicable comparisons... I never understand how that can tick people off that much.

Oh and i think Wil and Jesse are friends, Jesse was on Tabletop twice and Jesse is doing his own series on Geek and Sundry so there is that.

[jvbastel]

Will's tabletop videos are awesome and I watch them often when I'm looking for a new game to play with friends.
That said, I haven't really seen his comments on GG. I also don't let anyone's opinion on the issue affect how I feel about the person in general.
I would count myself as pro-GG but I'm not going dismiss the fact that there has indeed been some vile stuff that spawned from certain supporters of the cause, which makes it hard for well-known people to actually support it, even though they might agree that games journalism is in a godawful state right now (which a lot of anti-gg people have actually stated already).

[Gruffertus]

The discussion of the quality of these creators content comes in after the initial response to your question of "These women have received have received appalling abuse, what is going on?", they fed the trolls; end of story.

That isn't so, though - Anita's original crime was just to set up a Kickstarter to talk about the representation of women in video games - when it became clear that there was an enormous audience, when the Kickstarter made $158,000 off a plan for $6,000, that's when the abuse appeared, before she'd recorded a second of video for the project.

[KrazyK923]

That isn't so, though - Anita's original crime was just to set up a Kickstarter to talk about the representation of women in video games - when it became clear that there was an enormous audience, when the Kickstarter made $158,000 off a plan for $6,000, that's when the abuse appeared, before she'd recorded a second of video for the project.

Uhhh no, not at all.

It had nothing to do with the fact that she wanted to talk about representation in video games. Its that she's a goddamn con artist using faulty logic, having basically taken over 150k and had zero actual quality upgrade to her videos, and straight up stealing clips from other YTers. Oh and she hasn't released even half of the videos she's promised, all this time later. Of course, she's also on tape having said she doesn't like Video Games despite repeatedly claiming she does in her Kickstarter video.

But now go ahead and show one random person on Twitter calling her cunt before she released a video after collecting all her money and pretending it represents all gamers everywhere. Its something your side is really, really good at doing.

Or, you know, people just saw her previous work and already knew what the actual project is going to be.

But I guess critical analysis isn't allowed of people that you agree with. Then that's just sexist. Because...she's a woman. Right? Isn't that how it works? Because, you know, that totally isn't a completely sexist viewpoint that y'all are totally ignorant of yet pushing all the time.

Anita Sarkeesian is disliked because she's a con artist, not because she's a woman. Just like Phil Fish isn't disliked because he's a man, its because he's a pretentious asshole who thinks he's hot shit because he made one successful game.

[Durandro]

I never understand how that can tick people off that much.

Me neither. And the annoying thing is, I kind of liked him before he got out the stupid bat and started running his mouth on twitter. He's clearly coming from a position of ignorance, but its still uncalled for to be so offensive and rude or making massive generalising sweeping statements.

- - - Updated - - -

Anita Sarkeesian is disliked because she's a con artist, not because she's a woman. Just like Phil Fish isn't disliked because he's a man, its because he's a pretentious asshole who thinks he's hot shit because he made one successful game.

Its not even that she's a con artist. I disliked her even before that. Its her attitude, her aggressive statements, her dismissive stance towards comment or criticism, her victimhood complex and the fact she's often extremely sexist (to both sexes!). Being a con artist on top of it all was just icing on the cake.

[Gruffertus]

Well, I'll leave this (clearly time-travelling) link here then, and just suggest the above (KrazyK's post) as an example of what I was talking about regarding stepping over the line to excusing abuse.

[erthwjim]

And that is really sad because Wil Wheaton is actually a really cool guy. I read his blog for quite some time and really like his tabletop videos. He is as nerdy as you can get. I really don't understand the fervor that many of those SJW have, in the end we are talking about twitter and video games. All those "should be put in concentration camps" and "i will singlehandedly kill any..." tweets, come on. It's women in videogames. I really can't imagine a less relevant topic in todays world to get so angry about. You can talk about that, you can be in favor or against the "progressive" agenda but all those threats and despicable comparisons... I never understand how that can tick people off that much.

Oh and i think Wil and Jesse are friends, Jesse was on Tabletop twice and Jesse is doing his own series on Geek and Sundry so there is that.

No he's a dick. I've been to the Emerald City con and his want to stay away from people is not just because he's afraid of getting sick, but because he's an elitist dick.

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Well, I'll leave this (clearly time-travelling) link here then, and just suggest the above (KrazyK's post) as an example of what I was talking about regarding stepping over the line to excusing abuse.

I think it's because of the coverage she got from the gaming media before she had even made the videos, as can be seen in that rockpapershotgun article. That wasn't the first article. They already touted it as something great without having even seen it.

[Gruffertus]

But that article isn't saying "this is something great" - the closest it gets is

The project looks and sounds very interesting and relevant to me. It will look and sound uninteresting or be perceived as irrelevant to others. People who are interested can respond by donating money, or simply waiting until the videos are completed before viewing them. People who are not, you would imagine, could click away and get on with their day. Most of course will. But quite the most extraordinary reaction has occurred from many who did not.

And, again, the entire videogame publishing industry could be having parades for her every day - that isn't an excuse for what happened.

[Yriel]

And, again, the entire videogame publishing industry could be having parades for her every day - that isn't an excuse for what happened.

What actually happened that is so terrible? Outside of the twitter- and emailsphere?
All internet "personalities" get harassment mails/tweets. Totalbiscuit gets a lot, i bet Pewdiepie gets a ton. And she's got some, too. But nothing actually happend. Bush at least had a shoe thrown at him but not even that happened to Sarkeesian.
But she can lead a comfortable life by only releasing a video every three months, gets invited to tv shows, gives lectures at universities and so on.

So what is soooo horrible that not even parades for her every day could make up for it?

[Durandro]

So what is soooo horrible that not even parades for her every day could make up for it?

I so wish people could see through her and realise just how awful a person she is.

Ironically the same people who defend Anita are criticial or even offensive towards Christina Hoff Sommers - a person who undoubtable gets a lot of hate mail and yet doesn't seem phased by it. How very different.

[Wilian]

I so wish people could see through her and realise just how awful a person she is.

Ironically the same people who defend Anita are criticial or even offensive towards Christina Hoff Sommers - a person who undoubtable gets a lot of hate mail and yet doesn't seem phased by it. How very different.

And whom has actually progressed the real feminist cause during time when there was actual real legal disparities in the society.

[Yarathir]

So true. It's sickening how corrupt a culture with so much influence is.

- - - Updated - - -

1. We don't care about ZQ, the quality of her game, her gender, her looks, her musical preferences, her ex writing a blog (and why the hell would we?). We care because she utilized journalist friends to get enough positive coverage for her game to get greenlit on Steam (a pretty huge deal in the indie gaming business).
2. Corruption and collusion such as this has been running rampant in the game industry for a long time now, and it has been about time someone did something about it. Vis-à-vis Gamergate was started.

To add to the second point: Zoe Quinn just so happens to be the one case where it was widely uncovered. We had suspicions, but never proof. With Zoe Quinn, we had it. Then, admittedly, there were groups, whether they were trolls or misogynists, talking about Zoe Quinn because she was a woman. A possibility, since Zoe Quinn has been proven to love self-victimising, that the trolls focusing on her sex were of her own making/directed by her, but there's no proof for that, so I won't assume. It won't change much for us anyway.



Some of us (who they will probably label misogynist nonetheless) did address Zoe Quinn's personal actions, and I was one of them, but we didn't hunt her beyond that. She cheated on her boyfriend, and by her own admission, was quite abusive to him. If it was any other person that did that to their boyfriend or girlfriend, I'd have mentioned my disapproval as well. Anyone who wouldn't simply because it is a female doing it is ten times as sexist as those they're labeling sexist for actually doing so.



Either way, that blew over rather quickly, aside from the occasional troll bringing it up now and then. More so, anti-GGers were the ones who brought it up the most. Whereas, for example the thread here, was focusing on Gamergate and the discussion on ethics, and at times the journalists themselves, anti-GGers came in repeating the same bullshit every few pages: "I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S ABOUT ETHICS. YOU'RE SIMPLY TRYING TO DESTROY A POOR INNOCENT WOMAN.", and that then prompted a discussion, and many pro-GGers trying to detach themselves from the trolls (and possibly actual misogynists) that had actually harassed before. In typical hypocritical and plain disingenuous fashion, those anti-GGers would then look at the conversation they themselves stirred up, which they knew would make a lot of GGers want to defend and explain themselves, and go "SEE? IT'S ABOUT THE HARASSMENT OF ZOE QUINN AFTER ALL. I'M RIGHT AFTER ALL."



So let me summarise that: Anti-GGers came into the thread (multiple times, with a few pages of space and silence in between), said they didn't buy into the fact that GG was about ethics in journalism, and not about Zoe Quinn any more, and pushed GGers (knowingly) into a position where they would want to defend themselves from such smears, and then they used the fact that GGers wanted to defend themselves from being called Zoe Quinn's harassers and misogynists to claim "SEE? You're talking about her again! You're actually misogynists!".




Aside from that, Zoe Quinn (as well as Anita, Wu, and so on) waited for the right time, time and time again, when discussion awakened as a result of their own smearing campaigns died down, to make more (blatantly troll-like) inflammatory and taunting claims. Zoe Quinn, for instance, started talking about how she killed gaming, and showed pictures of that "killed gamers" merchandise bullshit that popped up. Anita Sarkeesian started smearing more, and used school shootings as her own personal tool to attack gaming, making claims like that toxic masculinity is the source of stuff like that, and that gaming contributed to it. Wu was.. well, being Wu.



And so on. Time and time again, they waited for the discussion to die down, and then tweeted something inflammatory, reprehensible, or a mix between those, knowing full well that it would irritate people (and rightfully so. It would annoy anyone it was aimed at, and that's not because it came from women, but because it was plain, blatant taunting that they did), and then, when their taunts ended up working, twisted the context and pointed to the responses, and went: "SEE? PROOF THAT THEY'RE HARASSING ME!"


And you all fell for it. The Media I can understand, because they all have ties, so they're saving their own skin by pushing a fake narrative. The public, however, was duped and sprang to the defenses of the poor damsels, as predicted, and it has slowly eaten at my faith in humanity.

[Yriel]

So true. It's sickening how corrupt a culture with so much influence is.

This one, too :

[Jofe]

That isn't so, though - Anita's original crime was just to set up a Kickstarter to talk about the representation of women in video games - when it became clear that there was an enormous audience, when the Kickstarter made $158,000 off a plan for $6,000, that's when the abuse appeared, before she'd recorded a second of video for the project.

In reality there wasn't a big audience for her project. From what I remember her Kickstarter was on the way to failure, even with the help of the usual sites trying to bring people to it, and then the "harassment" appeared. It was reported everywhere and the campaign exploded with people who didn't give a crap about the project but wanted to "teach a lesson to those trolls". Before that, just like with Zoe Quinn and Brianna Who, barely anyone knew who the fuck was Anita Sarkesean.

[hrugner]

That isn't so, though - Anita's original crime was just to set up a Kickstarter to talk about the representation of women in video games - when it became clear that there was an enormous audience, when the Kickstarter made $158,000 off a plan for $6,000, that's when the abuse appeared, before she'd recorded a second of video for the project.

Yes, people didn't like what she was doing right out the gate. Trying to stifle criticism of her trope hunting expeditions seems to be the main culprit there, our good friend Kuchera did a lovely job of framing her work as unassailably brilliant and did any future work she will do a disservice by not giving her the opportunity to start off weak and improve.

However, as regards the small overlap of her work and Gamergate, I've seen nothing come from her that didn't seem designed to boost the signal of trolls.

[nextormento]

That isn't so, though - Anita's original crime was just to set up a Kickstarter to talk about the representation of women in video games - when it became clear that there was an enormous audience, when the Kickstarter made $158,000 off a plan for $6,000, that's when the abuse appeared, before she'd recorded a second of video for the project.

In reality there wasn't a big audience for her project. From what I remember her Kickstarter was on the way to failure, even with the help of the usual sites trying to bring people to it, and then the "harassment" appeared. It was reported everywhere and the campaign exploded with people who didn't give a crap about the project but wanted to "teach a lesson to those trolls". Before that, just like with Zoe Quinn and Brianna Who, barely anyone knew who the fuck was Anita Sarkesean.

It was funded by day 2.

She was pretty popular already, and on the receiving end of all sorts of abuse: this video by The Amazing Atheist was uploaded a year prior to Tropes vs. Women in Video Games. I knew of her projects well prior to that, though, as they were laughing stock in SA. Now, I'm no fan of Kincaid, but I don't think that video is particularly abusive (not by Kincaid's standards anyway); however, the internet is all shades of stupid, so the abuse grew exponentially along with her popularity going through the roof.

Where she wasn't popular was among the gaming scene. The project had next to 0 appeal from within: it's a shitstorm that was brought in because gaming was an apparently easy target.