Kajieme Powell Shooting

[Deleted]

Obviously I'm not defending the guy.

But he was pretty much WALKING at best. He didn't have his knife in any position to stab, he just had it to his side. And he was meters away from the police. I get being on the safe side, I really do. But if some guy can accelerate from a standing position cover 3+ meter in distance, raise his knife to a stabbing position and actually stab someone, all before a cop can fire a gun that is allready aimed (5+ times if needed) then there's something wrong with our cops.

Point is, why would you walk towards the police with a knife at all? Maybe he couldn't get to them before they shot if he started running, maybe he could. Personally, I'm glad that we never had to find out. You DON'T move towards police with a knife drawn. You don't even need to raise your arm up like that, you can stab someone by running into them. Even if you've already been shot, if the momentum carries you - and your knife - forwards into the officer, they could die. I just think it's risky to start playing a game of "how little damage can we do to this armed person and still disable them"

There are almost always better ways you can handle a situation, but if you say "oh well they should have used a taser" then okay, let's run with that. Best case, the taser works and the guy is stunned. Worst case it doesn't take and you now only have one officer pointing a weapon. Which reduces your chance to hit the guy by a half. And even if you hit him, reduces your chance to disable him by MORE than half (one bullet in a non vital area may not stop you, where two might). Why are we trying to see how far we can go to protect this guy when lives of police officers are at risk? Even WORST case is when the officer lowers his weapon to get out his taser the guy charges, now you only have one officer shooting, and you don't even get the chance to attempt the taser. I just don't think we should be rolling the dice with the lives of police officers in a situation where the guy could have stopped the entire situation by dropping the knife and laying on the ground. He made a choice not to, and put the police in a position where they had to make a judgement call. It's always going to be easier to hit the guy while he's walking rather than sprinting at you, so I don't fault them at all for fireing when they had no idea what he was going to do next. All they knew is 1) There is a guy with a knife 2) he isn't cooperating with the police 3) he is advancing on the police. They don't know if or when he's going to start running, if he intends to kill them, hell, if he changed his mind and ran towards the civilians, what would they do then. At that point the option of shooting him is gone because you can't risk hitting the other people. What do they do then?

He put them in a position where they had to very quickly assess the situation and act. They may not have acted in the absolute perfect way, but they don't have full information, and they are only human. You can't fault them for responding in the way they are trained to respond, and for placing the lives of themselves, and the other innocents in the area, higher than that of an uncooperative man with a knife advancing on them.

[siafu]

this is called suicide by cop. they could have tazed him but then again they could have missed too. and then the closest cop would be knifed and probably killed. this is their lifes on the line, u dont play games u shoot to kill.

[Deleted]

Point is, why would you walk towards the police with a knife at all?

Perhaps he was mentally unstable and in need of serious help?

[Deleted]

Perhaps he was mentally unstable and in need of serious help?

Don't get me wrong, I have unlimited sympathy for people with mental health problems and I absolutley think that we need to funnel entire orders of magnitude more money into their care, support and treatment than we are at the moment. But at this point, that doesn't help. When you are stood there with a knife, and two police officers roll up with imperfect information, they have to respond to the situation as it is presented to them. They don't know whether he has a history of violence caused by the mental illness, or whether he is just confused and wandering around in a daze. Mental health care needs to be aimed at not letting people with mental health issues get into this exact situation. Once they are already in this situation (that is, brandishing a knife at police officers), there isn't a lot we can do unfortunately.

[Ghostpanther]

The police in this particular case were, I'm sure, called in by people stating that there's a crazed, knife-wielding man on the street. It should be stated.

However, there's an utter contrast to police stopping "open carry" -people, basically people walking around, on the street, with assault rifles. There's a ton of videos on Youtube showing the cops being very polite and never threatening the people, who are walking around with firearms, with their own guns.

A lot of people have been talking about how fast a man with a knife could run to you, even if you're already pointing your weapon at him. However, how fast could a man raise the assault rifle he's carrying and shoot you, especially when you don't have your gun drawn? I'd say the latter happens in a fraction of the time of the former. Still, cops don't seem to be afraid to confront these assault rifle -brandishing people on the street with basically open arms.

Could there be some reason behind all of this?

If the cops ordered a person who was open carrying a weapon and acting threatening also, to put it down and they refused. They would be shot too. This guy was not just carrying his knife, but was acting in a threatening way and did so when the police showed up and they ordered him to put the knife down and he refused. And if the cops are not afraid to approach a person exercising their right to open carry, it is because they understand just open carrying a weapon out in public is not a violation of the law in many states.

[TZucchini]

Gasp. I thought a gun used in self defense rarely happens and you are more likely to be shot fir just having a gun? Or does all that change when you have a badge?

Of course that changes when you have a badge. I may not be a very strong supporter of Second Amendment rights, but I'm a very strong advocate of the police.

[Deleted]

"shoot me, Shoot me now mother fucker!" disobeys orders to drop knife from both the police and people at the scene, Continues towards the officers who drop hit with several shots in quick succession a quick pause and then two further shots. Overkill ? Perhaps. Justified ?

A quick Screen grab and a simple line to show the approximate hight of the officer, and the approximate distance that Kajieme Powell in relation to the hight of the officer (copy paste rotate 90 degrees) was from the officer shows that there is less than two body lengths distance between the two. I have no doubt that the officer was in danger of being attacked and defended himself accordingly.

[poser765]

Perhaps he was mentally unstable and in need of serious help?

Oh no doubt...but when someone who needs serious help is threatening my life...my life comes first.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Perhaps he was mentally unstable and in need of serious help?

How does that change the fact that he put up a threat to the cops and after repeatedly telling the man to back off and put down his weapon?
Cops have every right to defend themselves from any threat- regardless of mental stability of the person attacking them... They maybe shot 2 rounds each before he "rolled" towards them- they couldn't know that he was dead or otherwise so they kept firing until he was still, dead still.

[shadowmouse]

One possible problem may be this rule. There are reasons to understand it, but there are a number of variables beyond simple distance.

[Tinch]

Snip.

You can play these 'what if' games all day long. The police should act on what is happening, not what they think might happen, that just gives them free reign to justify pretty much any shooting.

The facts are the guy was clearly distressed, he was walking and he had his hands down by his side. The officer could have just backed away and used his car as a buffer between himself and the guy.

Of course I respect that it is obviously a highly pressurised situation and its easily said in hindsight, but that's why they're trained to handle these situations professionally. The fact that he was so quick to unload on the guy is seriously worrying.

[Deleted]

One possible problem may be this rule. There are reasons to understand it, but there are a number of variables beyond simple distance.

he was well within the so called 21 foot rule distance, I would hazard a guess that he was 9 to 12 foot away from the officer at best.

[Ghostpanther]

Of course that changes when you have a badge. I may not be a very strong supporter of Second Amendment rights, but I'm a very strong advocate of the police.

Well, the law in many states disagrees with you. A intruder breaks into a home, the home owner has the right in Ohio to use deadly force to eliminate them because they are justified to feel their life is in danger. Why? Because they may not know how well armed the intruder is or if they only want to take some possessions and leave them alone. And they do not have the time to ask them.:P

And thankfully many states have a stand your ground law, which under the same scenario as this case of the thread, a private citizen would have a right to shoot to kill a person who is moving toward them with a knife and threatening them.

[Milch]

You can clearly hear him yelling "SHOOT ME, SHOOT ME NOW!" He was not going to stop, they recorded before the police arrived because they knew he was not in the right mind. If someone comes up on the lawn of a registered carry citizen and threatened like that, you must be out of your mind if you would go against the property owner to protect themselves. I hope cops do wear chest cameras and start posting all the shit they have to go through. The show Cops just makes it feel like a televised drama!

[Deleted]

The facts are the guy was clearly distressed, he was walking and he had his hands down by his side. The officer could have just backed away and used his car as a buffer between himself and the guy.

really, you think that the officer had chance to place the car between him and the attacker ? had the officer back away then it is entierly possible that he could have been charged and killed long before getting the car between them.

Take a look at Mythbusters Gun V Knife (40 seconds in)


At 20 ft he was able to reach and therefore attack him, The attacker in this case was a LOT closer than 20ft.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Why do people think it's okay for Bull riders and Matadors (in Spain etc) to get trampled when they're asking/playing with trouble but as soon as some moron (sorry) acts up against the police instead of doing as they (the police officers) instruct and ends up getting shot or man-handled?

Who's to blame? The cops doing their jobs or the civilians ignoring orders from the cops? (goes for nearly every case in the last couple years...)

[Ghostpanther]

he was well within the so called 21 foot rule distance, I would hazard a guess that he was 9 to 12 foot away from the officer at best.

According to the video, he was less than 10 feet from the one officer when he was shot. They gave the guy plenty of chances to stop and drop his knife.

[dd614]

Guy wielding long knife advances on armed cops who tell him repeatedly to put the weapon down. Suicide by cop fits. Next? Officers should get a medal for defending the community from a dangerous criminal.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Well, the law in many states disagrees with you. A intruder breaks into a home, the home owner has the right in Ohio to use deadly force to eliminate them because they are justified to feel their life is in danger. Why? Because they may not know how well armed the intruder is or if they only want to take some possessions and leave them alone. And they do not have the time to ask them.:P

And thankfully many states have a stand your ground law, which under the same scenario as this case of the thread, a private citizen would have a right to shoot to kill a person who is moving toward them with a knife and threatening them.

Someone's breaking into your house, there's no lights on- you yell at them to get down on the floor and stay still. They turn around facing you, you have 0.1 seconds to judge the situation; what do you do?

[Deleted]

According to the video, he was less than 10 feet from the one officer when he was shot. They gave the guy plenty of chances to stop and drop his knife.

indeed, I think he left the officer no other choice than to drop him.