[WoD] Kirin tor and blood elves

[Wyrt]

And what's the reaction concerning Maladaar by his piers? For a people dedicated to run from demons, only one guy noticing it is a bit too low. Especially when an Exarch is also a fel user.

When you fight Othaar he's a mage. He doesn't use fel magic until after he transforms.

Besides, it was the Auchenai that were in Socrethar's Rise before, you know, Maladaar's people.

[Deleted]

When you fight Othaar he's a mage. He doesn't use fel magic until after he transforms.

Which is exactly my point, they aren't the best in detecting fel users. And Othaar talks about the sacraments he did before. A Succubus in the middle of the city and only Maladaar detects it is very bad.

Besides, it was the Auchenai that were in Socrethar's Rise before, you know, Maladaar's people.

And they changed to people with better knowledge of fel magic and their users, the Kirin Tor.

[Wyrt]

Which is exactly my point, they aren't the best in detecting fel users. And Othaar talks about the sacraments he did before. A Succubus in the middle of the city and only Maladaar detects it is very bad.

And yet Othaar wasn't using fel magic. Neither was Nyami.

Maladaar was able to find the succubus very quickly.

I'm pretty sure agents of the legion are smart enough not to use fel magic openly.

And they changed to people with better knowledge of fel magic and their users, the Kirin Tor.

If they had to change it because reasons they should have at least changed it to night elves instead of once again shoving more humans into the story.

[Deleted]

And yet Othaar wasn't using fel magic. Neither was Nyami.

Maladaar was able to find the succubus very quickly.

I'm pretty sure agents of the legion are smart enough not to use fel magic openly.

Again, for a people running for 25 thousand years from the Legion, such infiltrations are bad. Auchidoun is worse, they are practicing fel magic right in the next room to the entrance and the Auchenai are just standing there. Are all part of Sargerai? Doesn't this really say much of the Draenei, that after all those years, they are really as different as their Eredar brothers?

If they had to change it because reasons they should have at least changed it to night elves instead of once again shoving more humans into the story.

Organizations, not races. The Night Elves also don't have magic specialists that deal with demon infiltration for centuries. Only the Kirin Tor and Silvermoon do.

[Wyrt]

Again, for a people running for 25 thousand years from the Legion, such infiltrations are bad. Auchidoun is worse, they are practicing fel magic right in the next room to the entrance and the Auchenai are just standing there. Are all part of Sargerai? Doesn't this really say much of the Draenei, that after all those years, they are really as different as their Eredar brothers?

Did you do Auchindoun dungeon on beta? All the Sargerei are using shadow, arcane, and holy magic. None of them are using fel.

Organizations, not races. The Night Elves also don't have magic specialists that deal with demon infiltration for centuries. Only the Kirin Tor and Silvermoon do.

So, you're telling me that the 2 races that hate demons the most are not prepared to combat demons?

[Koryn123]

The Night Elves are prepared to fight demon armies, but the Draenei are not so much.

The Night Elves are less about detecting individual agents (like the Council of Tirisfal and Silvermoon before them), because they can't without Arcane magic, and more about defending Azeroth in the event of an invasion (which happened in WC3).

The Draenei have never fought the Legion army-to-army. Minor skirmishes to hold back scouting forces that were sent to find them, while the main population prepares their escape to a new world. The Legion destroys the worlds they inhabit anyway, though.

[Wyrt]

Right, I get it, humans are the best at everything.

I'm really just sick of it.

[Rhlor]

Khadgar and Modera still work alongside the Horde too.

[Kallisto]

I'll take option B, thanks; but even then, i'm not very happy about it. If Blizzard keeps stubbornly pursuing Option A (as they have been doing to a serious degree since MoP, and continue to do in WoD), then i'll probably not stick around much longer. Shocking as it is for some people to grasp, there are those who actually like and enjoy the faction conflict in WoW; just as plenty of people like and enjoy X war with the Legion/Scourge/Old Gods/etc. Like it or lump it, the Faction War has historically been a large part of the WoW franchise; and frequently appealed to in order to sell the game. Whether it's in trailers or at Blizzcons, that has been the case.

We have gone from a time in which the Alliance/Horde conflict prevailed, with vague efforts of coming together to fight the Scourge/Legion/etc on the side; to an expansion like WoD, which is essentially the first expansion we see this turned on its head. An unashamed effort to unite the Alliance/Horde (to the point where they're the same faction in all but name) to fight the Legion/Iron Horde/etc; with the faction conflict on the side. I'm not a fan; just as i'm sure plenty of people have long not been fans of the alternative. It all comes down to the kind of game you want; and I don't want a WoW in which the Alliance/Horde are 'Super Friends', however much people might pointlessly protest in saying that their neutrality is not enthusiastic or friendly, when it's clear as we've seen in WoD that in many cases it either is (Blood Elves/Draenei, etc), or will be in the future (if Blizzard keeps going down this path).

While anyone with a brain would go for Option A.

Having a faction war right now if I may would be having two small kids fighting each other over the most miniscule of things. Both being watched by a bigger bully, both kids know about the bully and together could defeat him. But they are so tied up with their irrelevant feud they never stop. Then one day one will win over and while celebrating the bully finally walks over and defeats the winner with little effort because the kid is already tired and weary from the constant fighting.

In short when you have the burning legion breathing down your throats you stop what every nonsensical fighting you are doing and go after the legion together.

[Talen]

While anyone with a brain would go for Option A.

Blizzard hasn't developed the background for Option A.

As it is...many players DO want conflict and the gameplay and story opportunities that come with it. Where MoP and Cata failed is that Blizzard tried to deliver - but did so so in manner where it didn't. It didn't give players faction conflict because it spun off the faction conflict into an NPC faction and hoped noone would notice the switcheroo. The end result was unsatisfying for both factions and the resulting "BFFs who don't mind killing each other" storylines end up - at best - doing little but destroy the story and break immersion. And that's in addition to not developing other characters - in this case, Horde players are deprived of the opportunity to see their NPCs step up and act. It is utterly ludicrous that any Horde character - hero or not - would ever answer a call for help from one of the Kirin Tor.

In short - if you are going to have a two faction system where each faction fights the other, players want to see that in game. They want to take part. And trying to pretend we are best buds while at the same time we try to kill each other is not a good way to do things. That simply creates a hugely uninteresting and bland mess.

As for this conflict - yes. It's the Legion. And I don't really care.

Why? Because it isn't our Legion. They aren't threatening our friends. They aren't invading our homes. They aren't warring against our nations. Unless they come through the Portal after us, what happens on Draenor has no effect our Azeroth. And maybe they will...but that doesn't make me care about them NOW.

EJL

[Deleted]

Aw FFS. Are we sure that these are supposed to be Blood Elves and not High Elves? Maybe it's a bug in their eye color.

Arthas murder Sylvanas people (all High Elfs) at W3 ..right? So for me it makes sens, there is no High Elf left.. Am I wrong???

[Myzou]

Here's the thing.

Jaina's WoD voice audio clearly states that the Council of Six nor her approve of us working with the Horde. Yet they are doing the exact same thing right here. What gives?

It's Khadgar. He's undermining Jaina's authority and making the other members of the Kirin'tor disregard her orders as well.

Chances are Modera only did it because he told her to. In fact, one of the messages linked on the first page a bit down shows that she was indeed told to do this stuff by Khadgar.

Arthas murder Sylvanas people (all High Elfs) at W3 ..right? So for me it makes sens, there is no High Elf left.. Am I wrong???

Yes, you are wrong. The High Elves still exist. Most of them are part of the Silver Covenant, run by Vereesa. They joined the Alliance alongside the Kirin'tor in 5.1.

[Combatbutler]

It's Khadgar. He's undermining Jaina's authority and making the other members of the Kirin'tor disregard her orders as well.

Chances are Modera only did it because he told her to. In fact, one of the messages linked on the first page a bit down shows that she was indeed told to do this stuff by Khadgar.

Modera wasn't happy about the purge either though, Jaina is not regarded that well by the general Kirin tor population ever since she started dating a blue dragon many among the general populance started to outright distrust her.

[Koryn123]

Yes, you are wrong. The High Elves still exist. Most of them are part of the Silver Covenant, run by Vereesa. They joined the Alliance alongside the Kirin'tor in 5.1.

There are also elves living in Quel'Danil Lodge in the Hinterlands, some Elves in the Sons of Lothar (Allerian Stronghold, but have probably returned to Azeroth by now), plain old High Elf civilian pilgrims that are seen at the Sunwell, and Elves living at Quel'Lithien Lodge (they're Wretched now, though).

The Silver Covenant is just the most influential (more due to their ties to the Kirin Tor than anything else. They themselves aren't Kirin Tor, and hold no political sway over anything in the city) high elf organization today.

[Deleted]

Arthas murder Sylvanas people (all High Elfs) at W3 ..right? So for me it makes sens, there is no High Elf left.. Am I wrong???

If Arthas really did this, there would had been no blood elves as well. Blood elves themselves come from the high elf survivors of Arthas' invasion. Now there are blood elves in Horde and high elves in Alliance in places mentioned above.

[Northem]

Khadgar and Modera still work alongside the Horde too.

Typical ... more neutral scum ... the easy way for everything...

For me, that the "Horde vs Alliance" conflict is the core of the Warcraft universe, the neutrality is a shit.

Glory to the Alliance? nooo
For the Horde? slightly
For Neutrality? yeah!

- - - Updated - - -

In short - if you are going to have a two faction system where each faction fights the other, players want to see that in game. They want to take part. And trying to pretend we are best buds while at the same time we try to kill each other is not a good way to do things. That simply creates a hugely uninteresting and bland mess.

Excellent summary!

You guys do not want conflict between the Horde and Alliance? Okay, then eliminate all the PVP content completely.

I am personally in favor of PVP (though as being a pure arcane mage I can not practice it) and therefore I support profoundly the conflict "Horde vs Alliance."

Indeed, if there were no "Horde vs Alliance" conflict, the Warcraft universe would not exist.

Arthas murder Sylvanas people (all High Elfs) at W3 ..right? So for me it makes sens, there is no High Elf left.. Am I wrong???

Hmm I don't know how to explain it but ... you better not walk around the remotest forests of Greenwood, you could have ... unexpected encounters ...

It's Khadgar. He's undermining Jaina's authority and making the other members of the Kirin'tor disregard her orders as well.

Chances are Modera only did it because he told her to. In fact, one of the messages linked on the first page a bit down shows that she was indeed told to do this stuff by Khadgar.

Exactly, and according to common sense and logic (something that Blizzard seems to lack regarding to the storytelling), both Khadgar as Modera should be immediately expelled from the Kirin Tor, and, due to being convicted of treason to the Alliance, their only destiny is death.

Death to the traitors of the Alliance! Off with their heads!