Blizzard games are too good.

[Jester Joe]

Similar can be said of Activision, EA, and BioWare.

And I wouldn't disagree with it, except on Activision's part, just because I hate Call of Duty :P

[taliey]

Some people go out of their way to complain about anything.

Notice the graph has to how many complainers (jackassery, actually) populate certain types of games - only popular ones. I wonder why.

Some people ride along popular games just to complain about it.

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Considering I have a PS3 gathering dust and 200+ games on my steam account going untouched while I race to finish all my CMs/PGs/etc before WoD, I have to agree.

Stupid Blizzard. I wish I was one of those people who rage about how shit the game is on the forums 24/7, that way I could just quit and get on with my life!

And by life I mean other video games.



Well. It's nowhere near as bad as the official D3 forum when that game launched.

Most toxic community I've ever seen. Like, Youtube comments level bad.

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I attribute it to this:


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLawOfFanJackassery

I just want to say, this an amazingly accurate depiction of the community at large.

Add a forum and a negative bias, and you have this fandom.

[sarecho]

Some people go out of their way to complain about anything.

Notice the graph has to how many complainers (jackassery, actually) populate certain types of games - only popular ones. I wonder why.

Some people ride along popular games just to complain about it.

that's stupid, popular games get more publicity, have larger fanbases and by default, more vocal people on forums

[Tucci]

the FIRST thing i remember about wow + forums is people hating on it hardcore as fuck and this was before launch. people have ALWAYS hated on wow, originally it was because it was a pussy version of EQ. wow ALMOST gained acceptance in wotlk but they fucked that up with the mindlessness which fed into early cata and since then, 5k people PER DAY have been lost.

blizz has always been hated on though

Internet and gamer culture, in my opinion, has bred bolder, more ridiculous players and people in general. For example any article or video you see that includes a black person, there's always some upvoted racial slur. Most likely from mentally undeveloped teenagers. But it's everywhere. It was never like that before or nowhere near as bad and it keeps getting worse. Back in the day people were pretty helpful and social, going so far as to whisper compliments in BG's, dungeons, w/e. Even logging servers sometimes. Now if they do that, it's only to talk shit to you.

[taliey]

that's stupid, popular games get more publicity, have larger fanbases and by default, more vocal people on forums

Didn't occur to me! Derp!

I guess complainers follow popularity? (not sure if it changes anything)

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that's stupid, popular games get more publicity, have larger fanbases and by default, more vocal people on forums

Still though, could the argument be made that people who complain are less intelligent? Or at least extremely prone to streaks of stupidity?

[Notshauna]

I don't agree that Blizzard's games are good, they're polished and competent but, they aren't anything special anymore and haven't been for over half a decade. It's the same thing with most AAA titles, they are so full of stuff and so polished that their complete unoriginality and mediocrity isn't criticized.

[sarecho]

Internet and gamer culture, in my opinion, has bred bolder, more ridiculous players and people in general. For example any article or video you see that includes a black person, there's always some upvoted racial slur. Most likely from mentally undeveloped teenagers. But it's everywhere. It was never like that before or nowhere near as bad and it keeps getting worse. Back in the day people were pretty helpful and social, going so far as to whisper compliments in BG's, dungeons, w/e. Even logging servers sometimes. Now if they do that, it's only to talk shit to you.

back in the day people were fucking terrible and had to rely on others. today they don't. they don't have to put up with some shitty player's shittiness to get ahead in any way. they step on those people like a stepping stone, you know, the way it was already done in every competitive sport 50 years ago.

the problem is lazy people want to be part of everything and you can't let them be part of something and make it matter. for somethign to matter, people have to be excluded. blizz doesn't get that the same raid in a "harder version" isn't good enough. they've clearly chosen accessibility over anything else and it's cost them MILLIONS of dollars a month

they fucked up. they took wow, made it easier to catch up (which makes it easier to put down at the same time) and now they're reaping what they sowed.

but people are exactly the same now as they were, the only real difference is that online people feel it's their duty to comment about something they dont' know shit about. instead of idiots just shutting up because nobody will listen to them, they blog or post or comment or whatever. it all goes back to wanting to fit in. the internet is just high school.

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Didn't occur to me! Derp!

I guess complainers follow popularity? (not sure if it changes anything)

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Still though, could the argument be made that people who complain are less intelligent? Or at least extremely prone to streaks of stupidity?

yeah people who take it in the ass like champs from the people who they're giving their money to are geniuses. that makes a lot of sense. your'e probably a genius too. you seem smart. well fuck i bet blizzard would tell you that anyway (as long as you keep paying more for less)

to me, people who have valid criticisms that aren't just 'MAGES ARE OP' are smart enough to at least get that far. they probably give a fuck about the game too or they'd not waste their energy. the people who have killed the fucking genre are the meek little fuckers who take everything in stride until they disappear because their ADHD kicked in

those fuckers are why we have QUANTITY and not QUALITY right now

this is definitely NOT the golden age of MMORPGs for gamers, but it damn sure is for developers

it's a lot like the late 80s/early 90s when mario/sonic carried 2 systems while 5 other systems full of shit popped up and did nothing. it was a few years of the same old shit in a different box and then finally we got out of that rut

[taliey]

back in the day people were fucking terrible and had to rely on others. today they don't. they don't have to put up with some shitty player's shittiness to get ahead in any way. they step on those people like a stepping stone, you know, the way it was already done in every competitive sport 50 years ago.

the problem is lazy people want to be part of everything and you can't let them be part of something and make it matter. for somethign to matter, people have to be excluded. blizz doesn't get that the same raid in a "harder version" isn't good enough. they've clearly chosen accessibility over anything else and it's cost them MILLIONS of dollars a month

they fucked up. they took wow, made it easier to catch up (which makes it easier to put down at the same time) and now they're reaping what they sowed.

but people are exactly the same now as they were, the only real difference is that online people feel it's their duty to comment about something they dont' know shit about. instead of idiots just shutting up because nobody will listen to them, they blog or post or comment or whatever. it all goes back to wanting to fit in. the internet is just high school.

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yeah people who take it in the ass like champs from the people who they're giving their money to are geniuses. that makes a lot of sense. your'e probably a genius too. you seem smart. well fuck i bet blizzard would tell you that anyway (as long as you keep paying more for less)

to me, people who have valid criticisms that aren't just 'MAGES ARE OP' are smart enough to at least get that far. they probably give a fuck about the game too or they'd not waste their energy. the people who have killed the fucking genre are the meek little fuckers who take everything in stride until they disappear because their ADHD kicked in

those fuckers are why we have QUANTITY and not QUALITY right now

That's not going to go over well.

[Doctor]

but people are exactly the same now as they were, the only real difference is that online people feel it's their duty to comment about something they dont' know shit about. instead of idiots just shutting up because nobody will listen to them, they blog or post or comment or whatever.

The rest of your post was true, but this. So much this. Every tom, dick, and harry has the opportunity to have their voice heard now, and thanks to things like google and wikipedia (what to speak of related message boards where they can straight up steal ideas and points of view), everyone's a self-proclaimed expert on every single topic and hobby, and they can (and do) parrot back and forth on things they really don't know or care anything about.

[Tucci]

those fuckers are why we have QUANTITY and not QUALITY right now

Which is why I keep telling people how good I think WoD is for the game.

[nekobaka]

The rest of your post was true, but this. So much this. Every tom, dick, and harry has the opportunity to have their voice heard now, and thanks to things like google and wikipedia (what to speak of related message boards where they can straight up steal ideas and points of view), everyone's a self-proclaimed expert on every single topic and hobby, and they can (and do) parrot back and forth on things they really don't know or care anything about.

Even with all the information there are still cases where information isnt as easy to find due to information overload and lack of knowledge of said piece of information like an interview that took place four years ago might be hard to find if you dont know the exact title or passage word for word. Then there are other cases where players take a source and twist it to fit their beliefs. Just leads to an argument of semantics and goes nowhere unless the quoted calls out right from wrong.

[Tucci]

I don't agree that Blizzard's games are good, they're polished and competent but, they aren't anything special anymore and haven't been for over half a decade. It's the same thing with most AAA titles, they are so full of stuff and so polished that their complete unoriginality and mediocrity isn't criticized.

Well then what's "special" and "original"? Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo are all highly rated classics. They're the reason we have D3, SC2 and WoW. They took an original idea that made them well known and tons of money and built upon it and you get what we have today. Most other games you see in the genres are the ones that steal ideas from Blizz. Not to say they don't trade ideas back and forth, but I think it's safe to say the vast majority of unoriginality comes from copycats.

Mediocrity means a game isn't quality. All their titles have been quality. Probably the highest I've seen. Which is why millions of people have sunk thousands of hours each into them. You don't do that just because of "polish".

And again, I suggest taking a closer look at WoD. You might find the reason why I feel this is one of the most important expansions for the game ever.

[Kilperch]

Blizzard were kings of video game development in the 90s. After Warcraft III and WoW, their standards of quality have declined. That's not nostalgia talking, either. They just don't try as hard anymore. And who can blame them? No matter what, their games are purchased by the truck load. Doesn't matter if the game is good or bad. It will still break sales records because it has the Blizzard logo on it. They can't fail. So why put forth more effort?

But everyone is entitled to their opinion. Addictive games make more money than "good" games. Look at Candy Crush. It was designed to play like a slot machine and light up specific centers of the brain that also light up when you gamble.

Blizzard made StarCraft: Brood War and Diablo II: Lord of Destruction. Those were magnificent games. But then they also made World of Warcraft: Cataclysm and Diablo III. Those were travesties.

Their games are "too good"? Nah. Some are great, some aren't.

And they're not the only ones who make massively successful games that millions of people play. Look at League of Legends.

[Doctor]

Even with all the information there are still cases where information isnt as easy to find due to information overload and lack of knowledge of said piece of information like an interview that took place four years ago might be hard to find if you dont know the exact title or passage word for word. Then there are other cases where players take a source and twist it to fit their beliefs. Just leads to an argument of semantics and goes nowhere unless the quoted calls out right from wrong.

Yeah I know what you mean, it's the phenomenon of "I'll ask a question but I'm not willing to accept the answer". Like if they're in a position where they have to ask, that means they are ignorant and they need knowledge from someone who actually knows the answer. They're in a submissive position but they want to maintain an attitude of dominance. Then there's the "I won't accept any answer that isn't from the horses' mouth / the gospel", when a lot of the times there is no gospel or quote from the horse, because the question is so speculative and full of nonsense to begin with. So we get exactly what you said, an argument of semantics and interpretation that goes nowhere, but people get personally invested in those arguments. They get emotionally riled up about it, their egos are at stake, and the arguing back and forth actually becomes an addiction in and of itself. I'm just glad it's not a problem I personally have to deal with, ya know? I don't get involved and save myself a lot of headache that way, but I don't speak for everyone of course.

[HeedmySpeed]

You lost me at "Blizzard games are too good."

Nothing irks me more than someone who actually thinks all Blizzard titles are great or above average.
Hearthstone, Diablo 3, SC 2....... they lost what made them special in the transition from 2D/2.5D to 3D.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't agree that Blizzard's games are good, they're polished and competent but, they aren't anything special anymore and haven't been for over half a decade. It's the same thing with most AAA titles, they are so full of stuff and so polished that their complete unoriginality and mediocrity isn't criticized.

They're criticized all the bloody times. I'd say the community itself has gotten egotistical and complacenent.

[Tucci]

Blizzard were kings of video game development in the 90s. After Warcraft III and WoW, their standards of quality have declined. That's not nostalgia talking, either. They just don't try as hard anymore. And who can blame them? No matter what, their games are purchased by the truck load. Doesn't matter if the game is good or bad. It will still break sales records because it has the Blizzard logo on it. They can't fail. So why put forth more effort?

But everyone is entitled to their opinion. Addictive games make more money than "good" games. Look at Candy Crush. It was designed to play like a slot machine and light up specific centers of the brain that also light up when you gamble.

Blizzard made StarCraft: Brood War and Diablo II: Lord of Destruction. Those were magnificent games. But then they also made World of Warcraft: Cataclysm and Diablo III. Those were travesties.

Their games are "too good"? Nah. Some are great, some aren't.

And they're not the only ones who make massively successful games that millions of people play. Look at League of Legends.

They wouldn't have hired 100 or so people and create the biggest team ever if they weren't trying or putting forth more effort. Diablo 3 was/is a brilliant game that had/has some flaws. Those get ironed out (RMAH). For every company that would iron out those flaws months to years after release to bring you a better game, there's countless others that wouldn't.

[Dasani]

I think blizzard games USED to be good.

Warcraft Orcs and Humans was pretty revolutionary when it came out.
Diablo was definitely revolutionary when it came out. It created an entire genre really.
Starcraft was also definitely revolutonary when it came out.

All of these games were immensely popular, more or less groundbreaking in their design.

Diablo 2, also fucking amazing. It was a much meatier and better game than the original and is responsible for the bulk of the franchise's success.

Warcraft 3, once again pretty groundbreaking. It was one of if not the first game to combine RTS and RPG elements in actual gameplay. Having powerful hero units that commanded their armies of standard RTS fodder units was pretty awesome. And Warcraft 3 is responsible for the entire fucking MOBA genre. The original DOTA was made in the WOW map editor basically just rehashing shit that blizzard actually made. The idea of hero units with 3 abilities with multiple ranks and then a big, more powerful ultimate ability, that was all blizzard design. It's the same fucking design every MOBA uses now, and blizzard made that shit. DOTA just threw a bunch of heroes together, customized their powers a bit, and had them brawl it out on the map design everyone is intimately familiar with.

MOBA's were basically the heroes blizzard created thrown into a battle arena. It was all blizzard's design, they just never straight up made the arena, that's it.

Another genre created entirely inside of blizzard games are Tower Defense games. They were made back in the starcraft map editor many years before even warcraft 3. Now these weren't actually blizzard's ideas and concepts unlike the MOBA formula which ripped off everything blizzard did, but still tower defense games got their start inside Starcraft and later Warcraft 3.

There are probably more that have slipped my mind, but those are two big entire genres that wouldn't even exist without blizzard.

However Warcraft 3 was kind of the end of blizzard's epicness really. Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 were not really great games. They weren't really revolutionizing anything, they didn't change the game or mix it up or make anything really creative or interesting, they basically just tried to cash in on their already popular franchises from when they did actually create new concepts. People who played Starcraft and Diablo 2 for years and years dropped Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 pretty fast because it got old fast. Starcraft 2 is doing better than Diablo 3 and has a nice fan base behind it still, but honestly it's basically the original starcraft with better graphics is the main selling point there. Without being starcraft, the game has nothing going for it. Nothing new or innovative or interesting going on there.

WOW was also a major blow. Up until WOW was created, Warcraft had an ever growing and expanding lore, constantly evolving and getting better and advancing the story and things made sense. When WOW came out, all that changed. Suddenly everything became about appeasing the masses. It's why the Warlock class was created, because "it was cool" despite the fact it made no sense. Horde changed to go completely away from demonic things and back towards shamanism, they wouldn't allow warlocks. Ever. Not while thrall ruled, yet here they are. Alliance had no reason to ever allow warlocks in their ranks either. Hell they used to kick mages out of the kirin tor just for fiddling with necromancy, now all the sudden it's all cool for anyone to pickup fel magic and consort with demons? That's better than necromancy? According to wow logic, yes.

WOW wanted an undead faction and had to stick it with alliance or horde so they picked horde. Makes no sense for thrall and the horde to ever accept undead abominations into their ranks, especially since they are former humans and were completely consumed with the idea of ending all life on the planet and turning literally all living things into undead like them with their plague. That was like their race's driving force back in vanilla and what everything revolved around. There were numerous quests even explaining and illustrating the fact the forsaken no longer had emotions like love or remorse and all of it was replaced with hatred and anger, even a quest in vanilla with one undead wanting you to go kill their former spouse "just because" then said they didn't even feel anything when you did it. They are a completely evil group and always were, yet thrall welcomed them in with welcome arms.

With WOW, everything became about making as many players happy as possible, and lore doesn't matter anymore. They started doing massive retcons whenever they saw fit, the most famous of which was when they added the draenei race. It doesn't matter how little sense it makes or how it fucks up the story or lasting narrative, they have literally destroyed their own story that has been crafted and built up for many many years just to justify various bullshit being added into WOW. Now maybe if WOW wasn't warcraft, if it was some new IP without all this pre-established stuff, it would be ok to make up whatever you want on the way to do whatever you want to do, but to have characters do things they would never do, things completely out of characters, things to happen that would never have happened or been allowed to happen, and so on and so on... It's just too much. They had a great story until WOW, then it turned into nonsensical bullshit.

I don't think blizzard has actually released an innovative and truly amazing product since the Frozen Throne expansion for Warcraft 3. Nearly everything before it was amazing. Everything after has been rather lackluster.

And with everything at blizzard riding off WOW and having them cut corners to make more money, constantly increasing "character services" and making new exclusive content you must buy separately from the game IN ADDITION TO your monthly subscription fee, they've turned into a company that just coasts to fortune off former success but just doesn't have anything left in them to make anything new or interesting anymore. They have exhausted all of their creative talent. The games they make now are popular just because they are part of a popular franchise.

It's like call of duty. The games are garbage. They aren't new or special or interesting and they all rehash the same BS over and over and over but they keep making them anyway and people keep buying them anyway, and that is exactly what blizzard is now.

It's like they used to actually want to bring you something new and fantastic and were always striving to outdo themselves. Now it's more like "how can we milk as much money from as many people as possible?" and that is their only motivation.

There is already talk of them only have 2 raid tiers per expansion instead of 3 so they can release expansions faster... Well that's all fine and good except you have to buy every expansion, and apparently they decided the expansion prices needed to go up and now cost an additional $10 from what they used to. So combine less content per expansion along with more money per expansion, and it equals a game not worth playing anymore if that is the case.

[stomination]

The only thing that Blizz does that could be considered "money grubbing" in my opinion is the fact that the prices of mounts and services are pretty high. But they do offer these services and they're all options, not necessities. Their customer support is the best I've ever seen and they've kept the sub at 15/month for 10 years, at least in the US, as oppose to increasing with inflation.

They have the store mounts and such that price to please the shareholders. The store became a way to make up loss sub revenue and to make a profit.

[Beat5beat]

I think Tucci works for Blizzard. I've never seen him say anything actually negative about them, He regularly justifies questionable things they do and attacks anybody that voices anything negative about Blizzard.

You say the store mounts are "ok because they are optional" They aren't obtainable in game, that makes them not optional for me, at the same time while Im paying $15 a month I'm unwilling to pay them additional money when the game is supposed to be NOT pay to win. Clearly it is pay to win, but oh well.

Blizzard has gotten a lot worse in the past few years.