hate having to choose between rune of power and mirror image

[dreaderus]

Not sure why Mirror image is now a talent? Was always base line? leave it there?

I enjoy using ROP and also like my images, and now I have to choose. kind of blows

[The One Percent]

Times change.

[dreaderus]

Why not keep the original MI as baseline and simply put the benefit of the new one for a talent?

I don't see why we have to lose an ability here. (all mages with an iconic ability that has no reason to be "pruned")

[LocNess]

Why not keep the original MI as baseline and simply put the benefit of the new one for a talent?

I don't see why we have to lose an ability here. (all mages with an iconic ability that has no reason to be "pruned")

Blizzard is trying to remove on some of the cooldown bloat. Mirror Image, while iconic, was honestly a really bad CD for anything but survivability. I will not miss its old state at all. With this, they can kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of our button bloat a little, and add an option to our 90 talent tier which was in bad need of reconstruction prior to WoD.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Blizzard is trying to remove on some of the cooldown bloat. Mirror Image, while iconic, was honestly a really bad CD for anything but survivability. I will not miss its old state at all. With this, they can kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of our button bloat a little, and add an option to our 90 talent tier which was in bad need of reconstruction prior to WoD.

1. What's wrong with having a survivability CD? Also it has plenty more uses outside of just survivability. Kiting, PvP tactics, and various Solo-play scenarios, come to mind.

2. You believe we have button bloat? How so? I truly don't know of any Mages that are under that impression (you'd be the first).

3. How is taking away a baseline ability (that we've had since WoTLK) and re-purposing it into a lvl 90 talent choice, adding an option? Addition by Subtraction? The part that seems to be in bad need of reconstruction is the removal of Rune of Power, not taking away our baseline Mirror Image ability, only to make us have to re-talent back into it (and subsequently lose out on gaining either Rune of Power or Incanter's Flow) if we merely want to keep Mirror Image as a part of our normal game-play.

We literally lose a baseline ability (with multiple uses aside from just survivability) and a talent choice because of mirror image now being that choice.

[dreaderus]

yes Theworkingtitle has summarized this well.

[Mastamage]

1. What's wrong with having a survivability CD? Also it has plenty more uses outside of just survivability. Kiting, PvP tactics, and various Solo-play scenarios, come to mind.

That all falls into survivability.

2. You believe we have button bloat? How so? I truly don't know of any Mages that are under that impression (you'd be the first).

He's not the first, nor the last. Mages had spells which were never used. Bloat.

3. How is taking away a baseline ability (that we've had since WoTLK) and re-purposing it into a lvl 90 talent choice, adding an option? Addition by Subtraction? The part that seems to be in bad need of reconstruction is the removal of Rune of Power, not taking away our baseline Mirror Image ability, only to make us have to re-talent back into it (and subsequently lose out on gaining either Rune of Power or Incanter's Flow) if we merely want to keep Mirror Image as a part of our normal game-play.

You can talent into MI if you have an encounter which requires bursty damage. You can use RoP if you have an encounter that requires moderate movement and consistent damage. MI in its current form is utterly useless. From a PVE standpoint, it does shit damage for the cost of a GCD and 3min CD. When one of your 3min CDs is advised to be used before the pull because its benefit is garbage, then it's useless for us.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

You're upset that Mirror Image is being turned into a significant burst CD?

[Nelaphim-EX]

I think the upset nature is that they are taking something that we have had for years and re-purposing it as something 'new'. So instead of gaining a new talent, we lose an ability for a talent.

I can recall Mirror Image saving my life in several encounters raiding over the years (progression, not just farm), and was a crutch ability for many soloing strategies.

Sure, we can still get Mirror Image, and it is a DPS cooldown now, but we have to lose something for it. It should have been left as is currently on live and the level 90 Talent made into one that modifies it to turn it from a survival cooldown to a DPS cooldown.

As far as 'bloat', I had no problem with Mirror Image being on my bars. As a PvE'er/Raider, CoC, Frost Nova, and our various AoE Spells were much more 'bloaty'.

[dreaderus]

how about pvp? know how many times I use it and they go wail on the images? I even have it speced so it looks like they are my arcane blasts via glyphs.

just dumb, if u have to eat a talent slot for it so be it, but make it improve the existing MI rather then kill it

[Polarthief]

I think the upset nature is that they are taking something that we have had for years and re-purposing it as something 'new'. So instead of gaining a new talent, we lose an ability for a talent.

I can recall Mirror Image saving my life in several encounters raiding over the years (progression, not just farm), and was a crutch ability for many soloing strategies.

Sure, we can still get Mirror Image, and it is a DPS cooldown now, but we have to lose something for it. It should have been left as is currently on live and the level 90 Talent made into one that modifies it to turn it from a survival cooldown to a DPS cooldown.

As far as 'bloat', I had no problem with Mirror Image being on my bars. As a PvE'er/Raider, CoC, Frost Nova, and our various AoE Spells were much more 'bloaty'.

Alter Time says hi, though it hasn't been here for years and been infinitely more useful (as a defensive cooldown), and now is being turned into a shitty talent that you won't pick outside of specific situations, purely because it's on the same tier as Ice Barrier.

[TheWorkingTitle]

That all falls into survivability.

Kiting and the majority of Solo-play comes down to survivability, yes. PvP tactics on the other hand could be confusion/mis-direction, extra spell push-back, being able to force your enemy's target focus to drop (similar to Night Elf's Shadowmeld ability), and it has even been used as a Stealth reveal-er (similar to Hunter pet's being able to draw Stealthers out).

He's not the first, nor the last. Mages had spells which were never used. Bloat.

Never used by you =/= everyone. I used Mirror Image plenty - that's what this discussion is about, yes?

I'll have to start a poll to see if even MMO-C Mage visitors believe we had a bloat. I'd be astonished to see it be a majority. You're the second I've come across while both playing in-game and posting here.

You can talent into MI if you have an encounter which requires bursty damage. You can use RoP if you have an encounter that requires moderate movement and consistent damage. MI in its current form is utterly useless. From a PVE standpoint, it does shit damage for the cost of a GCD and 3min CD. When one of your 3min CDs is advised to be used before the pull because its benefit is garbage, then it's useless for us.

Like I said, if we merely want to keep Mirror Image as part of our normal game-play; we have to re-talent into Mirror Image now and subsequently lose out on having either Incanter's Flow or Rune of Power. That is not better game-play, depth, or an improvement in any way.

[Polarthief]

I'll have to start a poll to see if even MMO-C Mage visitors believe we had a bloat. I'd be astonished to see it be a majority. You're the second I've come across while both playing in-game and posting here.

I didn't really feel a bloat outside of having Fire Blast, really, and maybe mana gem because it was a weird concept (though I'd have preferred a mana well for our raid as raid utility!); at the very least it should have been made Arcane only.

We lost quite a lot of helpful spells among specs, and even had some good ones nerfed. DF and Combustion are now practically useless.

Like I said, if we merely want to keep Mirror Image as part of our normal game-play; we have to re-talent into Mirror Image now and subsequently lose out on having either Incanter's Flow or Rune of Power. That is not better game-play, depth, or an improvement in any way.

To be fair, MI wasn't a big part of your toolkit in PvE. The only situations I really remember it helping is Chimaeron, if you had aggro, or if your tank died and you wanted to try and invis to avoid repair bills (lol). PvP-wise, yes, I definitely see the helpful usage there, but you obviously aren't going to take Rune in PvP (unless you're really retarded), and IF is kinda... eh. The burst and helpful additional benefits of MI will prove much more useful.

While I agree it's not better gameplay or an improvement, it's not that big a deal. People should be more upset we still have Rune of Power holding back an otherwise okay tier of talents because they have to balance the other two around the assumption that Rune is best when standing still (which is a horrible concept btw).

[dreaderus]

hey guys this thread back on track, yeah just would love it to be simply an improvement to the existing without removing.

don't see this as a bloat thing, not necessary to remove from all 3 mage spec toolkit unless u want the dps cooldown talent.

Polar: yes agreed after playing at 90 for the past day or so I switched from ROP to invocation and regardless of which one min/maxes better the gameplay is much more fun so far with invocation.

[ihateyouall]

While I'm disappointed in losing Mirror Image as a baseline spell, I'm looking forward to seeing just how powerful the new version is. I haven't been keeping up with all the details, will it still pull mobs off of the mage though? Did they un-nerf the HP of the images that they did in MoP? Or is it being relegated to solely a DPS cooldown?

And, while certainly an outlier, Mirror Image has saved a wipe a time or two. I remember one instance when a Baleroc fight was going belly up right at the end. Mirror images drew his attention after the tank died, buying just that little bit of extra time needed to eke out a kill. I was the only one left standing at the end.

Eh, it still just feels a bit "meh" to remove skills and turn them into talents. Though at the same time, it's nice to get Ice Barrier in any spec, but as a fire mage, it felt bad to lose Living Bomb just to have it become a talent. And then there was when they nerfed invisibility a bit so they can go ahead and make the greater invisibility talent. Made the cooldown longer, and it just feels more easily broken. Don't remember having nearly as many problems getting invisibility to "stick" with something attacking me, when nowadays it's likely to break immediately if something is already up in my face (and there are no dots on me, so it ain't that.)

[foxHeart]

Sorry, it's what happens when devs CBA to come up with anything new or interesting. Repurpose an old ability by taking it away then making it a talent choice. Or just do something incredibly lazy like giving feral Moonfire. We've got a game to ship, people!

[zephid]

He's not the first, nor the last. Mages had spells which were never used. Bloat.

So remove those spells then. There was no need for Blizz to remove MI.

[Deleted]

You lost something and got it as Talent? So?
Shadowstep, Cheat Death, Bladestorm for example

[TheWorkingTitle]

You lost something and got it as Talent? So?
Shadowstep, Cheat Death, Bladestorm for example

They're all devolving game-play changes, not progressive. It shouldn't happen regardless of class. Instead of coming up with new, interesting choices, they do this. That's pretty bad design if you ask me.

[LocNess]

They're all devolving game-play changes, not progressive. It shouldn't happen regardless of class. Instead of coming up with new, interesting choices, they do this. That's pretty bad design if you ask me.

This gives them more room for changes. Instead of 5 expansions later, having 200 different spells to try and play around with, they can streamline the specs to give more room for this and not have it go overboard. It would have to happen eventually.