EMfH human racial

[nerv234]

Hi, do you want the human racial Every Man for Himself(pvp trinket) to be removed/changed? So be less OP?
Vote, and leave comment.

[Darsithis]

I don't see it as nearly that OP or Alliance would be winning every battleground. I admit, when I PvP on Alliance I do run Human but all you really get out of it is a second PvP power trinket for what? 6% more PvP power?

[Hottage]

I actually find EmfH as a bigger advantage in PvE than PvP. =/

[nerv234]

Why u edit answers?

[Kaleredar]

If you want it, roll a human.

[Logiks]

If you want it, roll a human.

I think the problem people see with EMFH is that racials which give significant combat advantages can and do cause players who would rather play other races for aesthetic reasons to rethink their decision on a purely competive basis.

Saying that a player striving to maximize effectiveness isn't inclined (at least to some degree) to select the race which offers the most competitive advantage is as much hogwash as when Holinka said the weekly 200 conquest exclusive to Ash'ran would not incentivize playing in Ash'ran every week to remain competitive. The min/max-ing mentality of the more competitive players will more often than not lead them to choosing race based on numbers, not aesthetics (which seems contrary to what Blizzard says is their intention for racial selection).

Personally I think that while racials like EMFH, Berserking, and Beastslaying (to name a few) might be a little over the top, having distinct racial differences is a better role-playing design than not. I just wish Blizz would do a little better job of spreading out/pruning the strong racials where needed. *high hopes for WoD*

[Kaleredar]

I think the problem people see with EMFH is that racials which give significant combat advantages can and do cause players who would rather play other races for aesthetic reasons to rethink their decision on a purely competive basis.

Saying that a player striving to maximize effectiveness isn't inclined (at least to some degree) to select the race which offers the most competitive advantage is as much hogwash as when Holinka said the weekly 200 conquest exclusive to Ash'ran would not incentivize playing in Ash'ran every week to remain competitive. The min/max-ing mentality of the more competitive players will more often than not lead them to choosing race based on numbers, not aesthetics (which seems contrary to what Blizzard says is their intention for racial selection).

Personally I think that while racials like EMFH, Berserking, and Beastslaying (to name a few) might be a little over the top, having distinct racial differences is a better role-playing design than not. I just wish Blizz would do a little better job of spreading out/pruning the strong racials where needed. *high hopes for WoD*

Except any degree of slight advantage would drive min/maxing players to one choice or the other, no matter how slight. That's why they're min/maxers.

And the top PvP ladders aren't "100% human" or somesuch anyway.

[WillFeral]

That's why certain comps only play alliance because the racial allows them to use a 2nd dps trinket, regardless of what bullshit Blizzard tries to keep spewing the racial is in fact overpowered because it put's an inbalance on the pvp landscape. If Blizzard would learn to get out of the way of itself then maybe they could actually start to bring some balance to the game. sadly that wont happen anytime soon.™

[Teddybearavenger]

Yes it's overpowered on PVP. It's always been. If anything they should get a cool new racial and EMFH become baseline for every class and eliminate the trinket. balance trinkets in pvp from there to not get op

[Raiju]

I don't see it as nearly that OP or Alliance would be winning every battleground. I admit, when I PvP on Alliance I do run Human but all you really get out of it is a second PvP power trinket for what? 6% more PvP power?

And yet it does cause that effect in arenas, at least in EU. Despite historically eu having a horde domination for pvp ever since TBC, EMFH single handedly changed that.

The top pvp ladders are what.. 36%+ human? despite them being below 20% overall representation, and the humans just get more represented the higher up the ladder you go.

[Crawclaw]

If you want it, roll a human.

This is the problem. Let's say I want to PVP Alliance side, and my favorite Alliance race is Draenei. I'm forced to roll human to reach maximum potential, even though I think humans are the most boring race ever. There's a problem with that.

[Raiju]

This is the problem. Let's say I want to PVP Alliance side, and my favorite Alliance race is Draenei. I'm forced to roll human to reach maximum potential, even though I think humans are the most boring race ever. There's a problem with that.

And if you want to play shaman / druid you can go home.

[Deleted]

If it would be Your decision would you remove/change human OP pvp trinket racial?

Yeah, if there were an overpowered human trinket racial I would remove it instantly.
Now considering the human racial is effectively a main stat proc, no, I think it can stay.
(To all the morons that think it's a second cc break trinket:
*nonhuman: on-use trinket + cc-breaker trinket + whatever damage increasing racial
*human: on-use trinket + proc trinket + EMFH to break CC
Do you see the difference now? Hint: it's not the amount of fucking cc-breaks, r3tards)

What's funny is that in certain pve content it could be regarded as OP, but not in pvp. If I fell for a troll, gj, you really sounded like you were mentally handicapped and ignorant as all fuck.

/edit: The closest thing to a second pvp trinket is WotF (Horde), and maaaaaaybe Shadowmeld (Alliance) which doesn't even count towards Diminishing Returns.

Infracted.

[Meiffert]

Well, obviously humans don't get more cc breaks (unlike undeads which are never complained about?) and the 1900 crit rating is about the same dps increase as the ~1500 average primary stat. For some classes one of them might be slightly stronger/weaker, but it's close enough either way.

The real gain of EMfH is the extra 2k pvp power you gain from the "dps trinket" over the "pvp trinket". If this is too much for a racial, then the amount of pvp power on cc-break trinkets can be increased to a point where the difference is a good number for a racial.

I wouldn't be for a removal of EMfH myself, I think it's one of the more interesting racial abilities.



I'm also really surprised how big a deal EMfH seems to be on the forums all the time when we have orcs who have had really strong on-use dps increase racial (you can use it to snapshot dots) on top of extra expertise on top of stronger pets (hello unholy DK with an axe) and trolls who are even more ridiculous than orcs because of berserking for several expansion.
I mean, Paragon had 9 trolls in their progress group (and a paladin who can't be troll) and almost all top guilds including Method moved to horde because of this and yet the only racial that makes everyone so angry is EMfH. I could understand it back when ridiculous raid drop trinkets were dominating in arenas, but nowadays it's really not warranted.

[Raiju]

I mean, Paragon had 9 trolls in their progress group (and a paladin who can't be troll) and almost all top guilds including Method moved to horde because of this and yet the only racial that makes everyone so angry is EMfH. I could understand it back when ridiculous raid drop trinkets were dominating in arenas, but nowadays it's really not warranted.

The orc/troll racials were never a huge deal until ToT came out and trolls beast hunting suddenly became relevant for near half the bosses, and the ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS trinkets made CD stacking so strong. They are also getting nerfed so that alliance will have marginally stronger PvE racials which (most) people don't really mind.

The issue is EMFH since it's inception has been causing the exact same shift for PvP'ers, and ISN'T getting changed while the horde PvE racials are.

[melodramocracy]

Racials should have no direct combat advantage to begin with.

[Graeham]

It's pretty overpowered and gives a ridiculously huge advantage when compared to what other racial abilities bring to the table. Personally I'd prefer it if racial abilities were adjusted to be completely cosmetic or removed entirely.

[NuLogic]

Don't really pvp but is an extra pvp trinket that much better than orc, troll, undead racial?

[Perkunas]

The orc/troll racials were never a huge deal until ToT came out and trolls beast hunting suddenly became relevant for near half the bosses, and the ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS trinkets made CD stacking so strong. They are also getting nerfed so that alliance will have marginally stronger PvE racials which (most) people don't really mind.

The issue is EMFH since it's inception has been causing the exact same shift for PvP'ers, and ISN'T getting changed while the horde PvE racials are.

When Alliance start winning 60% of all BG's except for 2 which the vast majority of the opposing faction blacklist anyway they can go ahead and make the trinket baseline like in Star Wars. Until then stop complaining. Most of the people complaining are typically North American Horde players angry because some Human Ret Pally blew all his cooldowns and ruined his wrecking ball achievement in WSG.

[Meiffert]

The orc/troll racials were never a huge deal until ToT came out and trolls beast hunting suddenly became relevant for near half the bosses, and the ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS trinkets made CD stacking so strong. They are also getting nerfed so that alliance will have marginally stronger PvE racials which (most) people don't really mind.

The thing is, beast hunting looks strong, but I'd say it didn't play such a huge role on most fights, because with the exception of Thok the beast fights weren't really hard dps checks.
The real problem is the CD stacking as you mentioned. As far as I could find, there is more than 100k difference between the highest rankng trolls and highest ranking non-trolls on a single target fight and it's a lot worse on cleave fights such as Fallen Protectors.
You say it only became a problem recently, but it has been one since I remember. Method changed to horde even before MoP.

The issue is EMFH since it's inception has been causing the exact same shift for PvP'ers, and ISN'T getting changed while the horde PvE racials are.

I can understand that, but why should the solution be removing an interesting racial? Just make better PvP trinkets that have the EMfH effect and are only as much weaker compared to "DPS trinket" as is the appropriate strength of a racial ability.