Glaring issues with latest tuning patch for elemental.

[desert-wind]

ES hits harder than LB with 0 stacks of fulm. Means fulmination is a pointless mechanic.

LB crits hit harder than LVB > moronic and has been 'fixed' previously.

LVB hits like a wet noodle for such a primary nuke, unnecessary now that Mastery is not a duplicating mechanic.

Searing totem is now our highest priority ability is again core to the class (ffs).

The buffed shock talent means that a non crit ES hits harder than a LvB, making the rotation during ascendance LVB LVB SHOCK LVB LVB SHOCK etc.

Seriously... I had little to no hope before this, but this just puts up such glaring warning signals that the devs actually have NO clue what they're doing...

it was pointed out that ES hits harder than LB and celestalon's response was that 'buffing fusion and es at the same time might have gone too high'... NO 132% on an instant is just straight up harder than 88% on a cast... essentially removing our only mechanic we had to actually pay attention too...

fkn moron -.-

[Muffinator]

Damage pass hasn't happened, calm down.

[Deleted]

Damage pass hasn't happened, calm down.

I hope you are highly cynical or that you lived under a rock the past 3 months - cause we only had damage passes in that time. The recent one buffed Earth Shock with 0 Fulmination stacks above LB damage, another buff to Searing Totem and another nerf to Lava Burst.

Now if you were serious, then god may help you in..

[Razhiel]

Now if you were serious, then god may help you in..

o.O'


Anyway, what he probably meant is that the damage tuning is not over, not that it hasn't happened at all.

And he'd be right, the tuning is NOT over. That stuff takes a while.

[Deleted]

I think the damage pass was to remove a bit of RNG DPS from the class and adding a bit more mobile DPS by shifting damage from LVB to our other spells and totems. I don't mind too much as long as the consistent DPS is at least average.

[Deleted]

I think the damage pass was to remove a bit of RNG DPS from the class and adding a bit more mobile DPS by shifting damage from LVB to our other spells and totems. I don't mind too much as long as the consistent DPS is at least average.

Yes, switching more dps to searing totem and molten earth.. thats what the community wants. Oh, wait..

[Emophia]

I think the damage pass was to remove a bit of RNG DPS from the class and adding a bit more mobile DPS by shifting damage from LVB to our other spells and totems. I don't mind too much as long as the consistent DPS is at least average.

Lavaburst is like ele's signature spell, why would you not want it to hit significantly harder than your other spells?

[Deleted]

Lavaburst is like ele's signature spell, why would you not want it to hit significantly harder than your other spells?

I rolled Ele for lava burst back in Wrath, its my favorite ability in the game but unfortunately, I don't have beta so this is simply my assumption. I still don't care about a single spell too much but I do care about performance. As long as lava burst isn't a wet noodle which I don't know if it is after this change, then I'm fine with the numbers being tweaked if its compensated elsewhere which this update seems to give us.

I'd rather have more mobile DPS with our instants and totems being stronger with single-target kept the same than being reliant of whether or not lava surge procs to do better mobile DPS. I don't know the damage parses but if ES is critting harder than LVB then it's pretty silly.

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Lavaburst is like ele's signature spell, why would you not want it to hit significantly harder than your other spells?

I didn't say anything about the community and who are you to decide what the "community of ele shamans" wants anyway?

[Deleted]

Rational thinking. Why the fuck would you want a major part of your damage to be out of your control and passive? Guess what, you won't have an explanation for this, unless you want to make a fool out of yourself.

[shamantime]

I like Molten Earth but, I think it would be much more suitable as a non-mastery passive. Searing Totem needs to die already, enough with the forcing of DPS totems down our throat, it is widely known that many Shaman do not like it. When WoD was announced, if anything, this was the expansion that I was hoping Shaman would get some serious changes or revamp, I guess not.

[Xorn]

Rational thinking. Why the fuck would you want a major part of your damage to be out of your control and passive? Guess what, you won't have an explanation for this, unless you want to make a fool out of yourself.

Another way to think about it would be that a large part of your damage now continues while moving. The reallocation of damage from LB/LvB into ES/FS/ST/Mastery means that Ele as a whole will be hurt a lot less by movement.

[EruptorNZ]

Rational thinking. Why the fuck would you want a major part of your damage to be out of your control and passive? Guess what, you won't have an explanation for this, unless you want to make a fool out of yourself.

The current mastery actually contributes more passive damage then Molten Earth, and even then it was a rng based mastery - you had a chance for it to occur, Molten Earth does constant damage. The new mastery is better, those who are still complaining about it need to realise this point and start complaining about the other more important issues.

Definitely agree with Furah on the tuning issues, and everytime they nerf Elemental it's

Reminder: It's very hard for you to have much perspective about how under/overpowered your spec is on Beta. Buffs/Nerfs are good, not bad.

Like I've been doing raid testing as Elemental in the level 100 pvp gear and Elemental has been disgusting in both single target and aoe. Either Skada/Warcraft logs is broken and we're not seeing the proper results, or Blizzard are not seeing the proper results - which I can only see as the case, as people are just rocking up to testing in their SoO gear with the amplification/multi strike trinket/gems galore.

The biggest problem in terms of single target for me is how weak lava burst feels (and it keeps getting nerfs )- its meant to be the signature spell. I remember all throughout MoP at the start of the fight when you opened with Ascendance you were at the top of the meters - not at the bottom as it currently is on beta.

Also I love how Storm Elemental Totem has still not been buffed - unless I'm missing something.

[Deleted]

Rational thinking. Why the fuck would you want a major part of your damage to be out of your control and passive? Guess what, you won't have an explanation for this, unless you want to make a fool out of yourself.

Rogues

Warriors

Hunters

Monks

Autoattack = 15-50% of their damage.

Blizzard stated they wanted passive damage of elemental to max be 30%.

[Rezhka]

ES hits harder than LB with 0 stacks of fulm. Means fulmination is a pointless mechanic.

LB crits hit harder than LVB > moronic and has been 'fixed' previously.

LVB hits like a wet noodle for such a primary nuke, unnecessary now that Mastery is not a duplicating mechanic.

Searing totem is now our highest priority ability is again core to the class (ffs).

The buffed shock talent means that a non crit ES hits harder than a LvB, making the rotation during ascendance LVB LVB SHOCK LVB LVB SHOCK etc.

Seriously... I had little to no hope before this, but this just puts up such glaring warning signals that the devs actually have NO clue what they're doing...

it was pointed out that ES hits harder than LB and celestalon's response was that 'buffing fusion and es at the same time might have gone too high'... NO 132% on an instant is just straight up harder than 88% on a cast... essentially removing our only mechanic we had to actually pay attention too...

fkn moron -.-

I guess Shocks damage would be nerfed to the ground again later. Its pretty ridiculous to see our Shock damage is higher than LvB, it almost feels that LvB has become another filler spell with Lightning Bolt as the lesser filler. But if they keep it at this later on live, i assume they're trying to solve two problems with one solution (by buffing Shocks this high). First, to lessen our mobile damage problem by giving a meaningful damage from our Shocks. Second, to make Elemental Fusion competitive with the other two talents. And probably even make EoTE useful in some way, seeing how Frost Shock is also affected by it.

I just tried it myself on Stormwind dummy. Tho i can't tell what dps am i doing (since recount doesn't work on beta, at least on me), on gameplay wise i find it really interesting to have "another level" of shock management to my basic rotation. Its really fun to keep eye on UE + EF buffed Flame Shock up. Also to keep your eyes on LS stack so your Fulmination always on highest stack, while not wasting EF buff stacks by dumping it with Frost Shock. Give a bit flavour to our basic rotation. And it also makes EF and EoTE have nice synergy imo.

[Deleted]

Rogues

Warriors

Hunters

Monks

Autoattack = 15-50% of their damage.

Blizzard stated they wanted passive damage of elemental to max be 30%.

Not even going to reply to such bullshit. Keep it to yourself, please. We're talking about casters.

The current mastery actually contributes more passive damage then Molten Earth, and even then it was a rng based mastery - you had a chance for it to occur, Molten Earth does constant damage. The new mastery is better, those who are still complaining about it need to realise this point and start complaining about the other more important issues.

This was true before they started to tune even more damage to Searing Totem and Molten Earth. Before the last two build they were already at 35%.

Another way to think about it would be that a large part of your damage now continues while moving. The reallocation of damage from LB/LvB into ES/FS/ST/Mastery means that Ele as a whole will be hurt a lot less by movement.

Is this fun and engaging game play? Not in my opinion, tbh.

[desert-wind]

The current mastery actually contributes more passive damage then Molten Earth, and even then it was a rng based mastery - you had a chance for it to occur, Molten Earth does constant damage. The new mastery is better, those who are still complaining about it need to realise this point and start complaining about the other more important issues.

That's actually incorrect, our current mastery does more damage if you play correctly, less damage if you play poorly. It is active because you activate it by casting your abilities, it is RNG dependent, i.e. out of your control (until 100%) but it is not passive by any means, because if you do nothing, it does nothing.

This new mastery is ESSENTIALLY passive, i.e. you can't do nothing, but you don't have to play well or really be active to get 100% benefit. The worst shaman in the world that is not unconcious will get the same damage from the mastery on ST as the best.

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Rogues

Warriors

Hunters

Monks

Autoattack = 15-50% of their damage.

Blizzard stated they wanted passive damage of elemental to max be 30%.

Whilst this damage is passive, with the exception of hunters which blizz have told us are special snowflakes, the skill in getting that damage is from acheiving 100% uptime on the boss, this is not an issue for molten earth.

[Deleted]

That's actually incorrect, our current mastery does more damage if you play correctly, less damage if you play poorly. It is active because you activate it by casting your abilities, it is RNG dependent, i.e. out of your control (until 100%) but it is not passive by any means, because if you do nothing, it does nothing.

This new mastery is ESSENTIALLY passive, i.e. you can't do nothing, but you don't have to play well or really be active to get 100% benefit. The worst shaman in the world that is not unconcious will get the same damage from the mastery on ST as the best.

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Whilst this damage is passive, with the exception of hunters which blizz have told us are special snowflakes, the skill in getting that damage is from acheiving 100% uptime on the boss, this is not an issue for molten earth.

I wasn't going to join in on this thread but I did just have a bit of a giggle at this. You are literally saying:

Elemental Overload is not passive because you have to use an ability to activate it, and if you do nothing, it does nothing.
But Molten Earth is passive despite the fact that you have to use an ability to activate it, and if you do nothing, it does nothing.

Pulling the whole "BUT IT LASTS 6 SECONDS" thing is silly. Instead of our abilities replicating themselves, they now add what is essentially a 6 second DoT that requires refreshing by actively using your abilities.

[noralya]

Whilst this damage is passive, with the exception of hunters which blizz have told us are special snowflakes, the skill in getting that damage is from acheiving 100% uptime on the boss, this is not an issue for molten earth.

Plus, it's not like almost every rogue in existence has been crying out for a reduction of passive damage for the last few expansions, so it's not exactly like it's a wanted feature.

[Deleted]

Is this fun and engaging game play? Not in my opinion, tbh.

Whether Molten Earth does 2%, 20% or 90% of our damage is not going to change how the rotation works, ergo, how fun or engaging the gameplay is. So what does that have to do with anything?

And by extension to everybody else - what does it even matter how much of your damage is passive if the gameplay is enjoyable? If 40% of my damage is passive and the other 60% is based on my actions as a human being, then that 60% of my damage will be better than the 60% of someone who isn't as good as I am, and that's how you distinguish good from bad. That 60% could be any figure and it wouldn't even matter.

I understand the argument of it being underwhelming, but if the gameplay doesn't change then I don't see how it matters what portion of the damage is passive for casters. (I can understand it for melee and hunters, after thinking about it, since they work very differently to casters)

[Deleted]

Whether Molten Earth does 2%, 20% or 90% of our damage is not going to change how the rotation works, ergo, how fun or engaging the gameplay is. So what does that have to do with anything?

And by extension to everybody else - what does it even matter how much of your damage is passive if the gameplay is enjoyable? If 40% of my damage is passive and the other 60% is based on my actions as a human being, then that 60% of my damage will be better than the 60% of someone who isn't as good as I am, and that's how you distinguish good from bad. That 60% could be any figure and it wouldn't even matter.

I understand the argument of it being underwhelming, but if the gameplay doesn't change then I don't see how it matters what portion of the damage is passive for casters. (I can understand it for melee and hunters, after thinking about it, since they work very differently to casters)

The point is that Molten Earth is purely passive, whereas Overload needed action taken before it proc'd. I dont know if you follow Shaman posts at all, or do you just like if people repeat themselves over and over again?