Why isnt Melee mobility being nerfed in WOD?

[Blithe]

Melee having as much mobility as they do now was the exact reason as to why casters gained more instants and 'cast-on-the-move' in the first place; it seems ludicrous that the already highly mobile melee (Feral, Warrior, Monk, Rogue) aren't getting any sort of reductions in this area.

[Gourmandise]

Pls don't take my Emancipate, I just got it

[Tedbuckland]

They nerfed the ability for all casters to cast and move at the same time and reduced all the instant spells, yet they have not reduced the mobilty all the melee classes have atm.

All this is going to result in is Warrior, dk and healer comp being the best for 3's as casters will get completely wrecked.

So that you'll whine more about it, QQ.

[Blithe]

Pls don't take my Emancipate, I just got it

Don't worry, it's not Retribution, Enhancement or Death Knight's that are the problem.

[Saberstrike]

Meh. The issue at large is that, by design, things should work somewhat like this: Melee do more plain dps with 100% uptime, Ranged do less damage but are safer due to positioning / being ranged / not needing to move as much to remain effective -- thus things even out when boss (or pvp target) moves out of melee range.

However, in current WoW every spec - melee, ranged and hybrid - is meant to compete for the same DPS slot. That's why such model that's -begging- to be implemented just won't work. Thus we get equal dps on both ranged and melee, leading to melee -needing- to stick to target to remain competitive.

It sucks, but it is what it is. If the game was more about PvP and small-scale 1-5 man content we'd probably see a lot more interesting things thrown our way. But as Blizzard is focusing most of their attention on high end 25 man raiding and a need to keep all DPS specs within ~5% of each other we're sadly stuck with what we have.

[Nangz]

casters on a whole haven't, mages have leaps on bounds yes, but. take spriests (admittedly the far end of things) There isn't a melee that can ride them without end. Even shamans with moving lightning bolt are easy to stick too.

Range didn't get more gap openers as much as instant nuke damage, which for the most part are both being removed in wod while melee's "counter tools" currently are mostly intact.

With damage numbers and such still in limbo its hard to say where things will fall but currently it looks like melee cleave playground.

Mobility is really a discussion of a combination of snares, movement speed buffs, gap closers and gap makers. I may touch on a few snares but for the most part I won't as snares haven't changed significantly.

Since wrath, ele shamans have gained casting while moving with a cd on top of their filler being usable while moving, warlocks a casting while moving passive, mages a casting while moving active, and hunters have been enabled to cast while moving without penalty completely on top of mobility/control through new disengage talents. Not to mention things like balance druids getting mobility through displacer beast and their charge.

You mentioned shadow priests, yet shadow priests have gained feather and body and soul which act as VERY significant mobility. A fairly spammable 60% movespeed buff


Meanwhile what have melee gotten?
DKs have had some interesting adjustments. Death's advance was introduced but is a tradeoff against non personal mobility talents. Double death grip added and removed in wod. Mass death grip added. Biggest change has probably been chain's of ice being nerfed significantly from wrath.

Ferals haven't really changed much, they gained stampeding roar, also shared by balance druids.

Rogues had shadowstep made classwide and other mobility options added. Not very significant since it really only made combat and mutilate more on a mobility level of sub.

Monks are new and touted as a mobile melee spec, i'm going to ignore that one.

Rets had their mobility kept about the same, they lost their baseline option through long arm of the law and gained talented options.

Enhance had their sprint decoupled from spirit wolves.

Warriors actually had the biggest changes, losing mobility since wrath. Lost intervene, gained talents to improve charge somewhat mitigating this.

So the ones with significant mobility increases are really only DK's ability to move an enemy, all rogue specs put on an equal footing for gap closers. All others have been minor. Compare this to the significant increases that ranged have had in the department of doing dps on the move...its not even close. Being completely honest? Melee are supposed to win this arm's race or at least show an advantage. Its possible to do damage to melee if they are on top of you, its not possible to do damage to a ranged if you are kited perfectly. This is basic ranged/melee mechanics.

[cityguy193]

Lets make the attack range of all melee 40 yards and they cannot move while attacking.

Lets then make the distance of all spells for priests/locks/hunters/mages,etc. 5 yards, and they can move while casting indefinitely.

Is that tradeoff worth it?

[spinner981]

Imagine a game in which casters and melee had the same mobility (like Mists of Pandaria.) What reason is there to ever play a melee when a ranged can do the same job, but doesn't have to be right next to their target, making both PvE and PvP much easier for them? Why would anyone take a melee in a group when they're an obvious liability?

Ranged have range, but can only use a few weak attacks while moving. Melee can attack while moving, but are limited to a few weak attacks if they get stuck outside of melee range.

Pretty much this. Let's just hope the amount of movement casters are forced to endure is about equal to the amount of time melee are forced to be out of range.

Lets make the attack range of all melee 40 yards and they cannot move while attacking.

Lets then make the distance of all spells for priests/locks/hunters/mages,etc. 5 yards, and they can move while casting indefinitely.

Is that tradeoff worth it?

To be fair, things like cast times, auto attacks and limited ability usage (via things like cooldowns and resource costs) play a major factor and the two roles can't be switched around that easily.

[Vathius]

Let me tell you a story

Burning Crusade - Illidan was all demonic - Locks like a bit of the old demonic stuff - ----> Locks Owned

Wrath of Lich King - Arthas was a DK ----> DKs owned

Cataclysm - Deathwing was everything, Druids are everything, -----> Feral Owned

Mists of Pandaria - Monks nuff said - -----> Monks Owned

Warlords of Draenor - Grom/Garrosh are warriors Warriors are melee, -----> Melee will own ( in particular warriors will )

Thus all is balanced in the circle of life, ( raises Simba )

[sugarfree]

Are some of the people replying here ven witnessed beta? You don't have to play it, justnlook at feedback from pvp players or watch videos. All is the same, melee has TOO much mobility even the developers acknowledged it.

Your argument that casters have 40 yards, woopedoo, as if melee doesn't have gap closers powerful enough to negate those gap openers. Have you all seen how warriors, dks and ferals get in top of their targets? And all casters are practically immobile now, with them dealing damage, they have to stand still, there's no point for gap closers to even exist since turreting is the new gap closer for melee.

This is just ignorance or "don't nerf me bro" moment for melee players. The adjustments would likely come in 6.1, so you guys have a patch to faceroll everything.

[Deleted]

because Blizzard is incompetent.

I wouldn't recommend playing casters until the second season

prepare to get raped by charge, charge, heroic leap, reflect, interupt, random 40 yard stun and co

[Deleted]

Maybe because casters have 40 yards range and melee don't?

Yea right its not like warriors don't have 100 different charges,spell reflects and gap-closers.Lets not talk about ferals and rogues.

The only decent whining from melee can only come from some DK specs and retpaladins.Others are just deluding themselves or suck too bad to catch a range class

[Deleted]

OP has the mark of a moron.

Keep it civil please.

[Deleted]

Are some of the people replying here ven witnessed beta? You don't have to play it, justnlook at feedback from pvp players or watch videos. All is the same, melee has TOO much mobility even the developers acknowledged it.

Your argument that casters have 40 yards, woopedoo, as if melee doesn't have gap closers powerful enough to negate those gap openers. Have you all seen how warriors, dks and ferals get in top of their targets? And all casters are practically immobile now, with them dealing damage, they have to stand still, there's no point for gap closers to even exist since turreting is the new gap closer for melee.

This is just ignorance or "don't nerf me bro" moment for melee players. The adjustments would likely come in 6.1, so you guys have a patch to faceroll everything.

I agree with this man.

But well its the usual WoW pvp community, the typical "others are bad I'm just too good....and just let me farm some gear before I get nerfet mokay plz blizzard?"

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Melee having as much mobility as they do now was the exact reason as to why casters gained more instants and 'cast-on-the-move' in the first place; it seems ludicrous that the already highly mobile melee (Feral, Warrior, Monk, Rogue) aren't getting any sort of reductions in this area.

Gz on mod you manipulative shaman

[Deleted]

They nerfed the ability for all casters to cast and move at the same time and reduced all the instant spells, yet they have not reduced the mobilty all the melee classes have atm.

All this is going to result in is Warrior, dk and healer comp being the best for 3's as casters will get completely wrecked.

Because roots and slows don't impact ranged.

[Mukor]

Casters are mad cause they'll actually have to try and win. And now be an actual option instead of dominant factor in rbgs and arena.

[wholol]

To be fair, it all started when arena became the center of PvP, quite a while ago I know.

Back then extreme mobility wasn't common at all because most casters ( if not all ) didn't not have as many tools to escape , and had to hard cast most of the time, which was fine in most cases but things started going downhill when one of the ranged dps classes had more mobility and gap openers than any other class, mages.

Don't get me wrong I'm not insinuating that mages should be nerfed or anything, I'm just implying where the problem started.

When most melees had a hard time sitting on mages, melee classes started receiving ways to stick to the target, which back when the arms race started the mage archetype was the main idea behind " caster " and melee mobility was starting to build itself around that.

As seasons past and new abilities unfolded melees had gained almost 100% uptime which was never the case before that, and as such other classes that had difficulties creating distance and controlling like mages could started gaining things in order to survive, all part of the arms race I suppose, as more and more abilities became instants , new gap openers for some classes, invisibilities, porting , knockbacks , freedoms , instant spells etc. started showing up and that also did a number on the melee classes that did not have as much mobility as other archetype melee classes.

Which in turn gave rise to more mobility buffs and other ways to avoid getting away from the target, whether it's flat movement speed increase, immunity to slows/ roots or flat gapclosers like leaps and extra charges etc.

The whole system should've been fixed when blizzard thought of fixing instant spells and casters in general, but it does not seem like that is the case, sure they nerfed some melee mobility that is for sure, no more double charges, or double grips , no leap etc. but that is not the main issue really, it's the additive utility that melee classes have gotten to avoid being controlled in some way that causes this whole hype.

Let me explain, with CC's being merged into much smaller DR groups, classes that still retain tremendous CC breaking abilities and immunity, or being semi immune from slows and roots from some abilities are the direct problem to what we're experiencing as "melees have too much mobility " , if you counter X gap closer with Y gap opener, and the numbers of such are equal, it all comes down to which one outplays the other one into using that ability first, but if u can ignore that by simply using ur gap closer first and then regardless of the target using a gap opener , still be able to fully ignore whatever that target does simply because you can run up to them while u are immune to snares, run at super sonic speed, being immune to CC or other types of immunities, which many classes received when the arms race was at it's peak around cata/ mop, that is the main issue here.

Too many CC breakers and slow/root immune effects added with extra speed boosts to almost negate distance entirely, that is what needs to be fixed mainly for melees, not their damage or their so called gap closers.

[Baracuda]

Warrior mobility has been nerfed probably most of all. WW monks, feral druids and rogues are the ones with OP mobility. I wonder why since armor hasn't mattered in years and will matter even less in WoD...

Yea right its not like warriors don't have 100 different charges,spell reflects and gap-closers.Lets not talk about ferals and rogues.

The only decent whining from melee can only come from some DK specs and retpaladins.Others are just deluding themselves or suck too bad to catch a range class

The subject is WoD, genius.

[Mormolyce]

Melee rarely need to stop to cast, but have to remain in melee range of the target (ideally behind).

Ranged can stand anywhere, but need to stop to cast.

It's not perfect but that's how it works.