Invert mouse?

[Nirawen]

If I'm flying something I'll always prefer inverted but for anything else non-inverted is a must.

[Johnkie]

You mean when you move the mouse up, your arrow moves down? That's sick. Non-invert.

Would make more sence that we all used Invert...
Imagine controlling a plane, thats invert i think.

For the record im non-invert

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This. I agree with this.

Always aggravated me when a group of us were playing Golden Eye when... god I'm getting old.... and someone would hand me the controller with the screwed up y-axis.

What are you talking about brawg... Was so fun to have a Invert battle in Golden Eye xD
4 guys all unable to control their character... was fun.

[Joey Ray III]

Wrong. You control your head with the mouse. You control the BODY with keyboard.


It's simple. In first person you move your head back to see up, and forth to see down.

no. like I said it's not 'move your head back to see up'. it's just 'see up'. i move my mouse where i wanna see, i'm not using it to move my head. mouse is not an extension of my head when I play. get it? ;p

so neither is 'natural'. i guess depending how you look at things, one seems logical at first and then you just get used it.

[KOMO1211]

The video you posted to prove your NATURAL argument linked forward/backward tilting of the head with up/down shifting of the view. Sounds TOTALLY LEGIT. Oh, wait...

If I look down, my face, including my eyes, is at lower level than normal. When I look up, my eyes go up in relation to their normal position. Seems like up/down change of position of the face/eyes is more NATURAL thing to link to up/down shift of perspective than forward/backward tilting.

But hey, if I tilt my head and upper body to the right really hard, I can see what's to my left. Sounds much more logical.

thank you, in FPS games especially im looking through the eyes of the character, not through the back of its head. if my eyes move up, my field of view goes up.

[Puupi]

no. like I said it's not 'move your head back to see up'. it's just 'see up'. i move my mouse where i wanna see, i'm not using it to move my head. mouse is not an extension of my head when I play. get it? ;p

Yes I get it, it's illogical and wrong way to look at the thing. But whatever works for you!

so neither is 'natural'. i guess depending how you look at things, one seems logical at first and then you just get used it.

Inverted is natural. You don't control the view, you control yourself/camera. If you want to watch a building from certain angle, you don't move the building, you move yourself to see it from different angle. That's natural.

There is a reason why inverted camera is "a thing". If it's wasn't logical and natural, it would not exist; there would be no reason for it to exist. The non-inverted camera exists because many people have difficulties in understanding basic physics.

[Joey Ray III]

Yes I get it, it's illogical and wrong way to look at the thing. But whatever works for you!


Inverted is natural. You don't control the view, you control yourself/camera. If you want to watch a building from certain angle, you don't move the building, you move yourself to see it from different angle. That's natural.

neither case is controlling the view. difference is you control what you see by moving your head, I control it directly (I skip the head movement and tell my character 'look here').

I find your way weird because IRL you don't have to move your head at all too look in different directions so all this 'move your head backwards to look up' makes no sense to me. and like I said mouse is not used just for looking around but also for turning and other things so I really don't know how you applied the laws of physic here. not saying it's wrong, it's just we use different logic.

anyway, I'm done arguing this. believe what you want mr. natural.

[Bigtimmy]

I use inverted because I grew up playing games where it was the default option. It wasn't just flight sims, though I can't remember specifically because it was a long time ago now. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, at some point the default option changed to what is now considered "normal," but I still play inverted.

There's no point arguing which way is more correct, though the head tilting back to look up is the explanation I have always used as well.

That said, there is NO reason to not have this setting in the options menu of any game. I was probably going to play Archeage with it going public, but if they can't be bothered to spend the 5 minutes to add it to their options menu, then I can wait to try the game.

[Radio]

When using controllers or piloting a vehicle with a mouse, inverted. Else normal.

[dawawe]

You use inverted and DIDN'T NOTICE?! What the hell? Third person makes no difference in this subject. It's about 3D control.


There is natural and unnatural. Inverted mouse follows the laws of physics and one could argue that is the NATURAL way to do things.

By "didnt notice" meant it was prolly inverted i would have noticed if it wasnt. i can DL it again and find out but positive it was

[May90]

Why would anyone invert mouse? I mean, you surely can write words backwards, or ride bicycle back to front, but why would you want to do that? It doesn't seem logical or intuitive.

Inverted is the "normal" and logical way. Hence it was the default setting long time ago. Somewhere during 90's or early 2000's normal became the default and kids learned the wrong and unnatural way to control their characters in games.

I don't see how it can be natural or logical. And not everything that was done in the past is the "normal way" - there was a time when displays didn't exist at all and one had to tamper with wires to get computer to calculate something, but I don't think it means we should abandon our monitors today.

You are moving the head of your character, which is inverted control in real life.

How is this inverted? When I want to look to the left, I move my mouse to the left. When I want to look to the top, why should I move my mouse to the bottom?
Your argument with "moving the head to the back" just doesn't work - I can look up without moving my head back, and so can you, just try it.

[Miyani]

All my friends are non-inverts and just think i'm odd for being inverted, however i swear it's partly genetic and ingrained since my little sister can only play games inverted too.

[May90]

If you want to watch a building from certain angle, you don't move the building, you move yourself to see it from different angle. That's natural.

And yet that's exactly what you do with inverted Y: you move the building! You move your mouse up and the building goes up.

There is a reason why inverted camera is "a thing". If it's wasn't logical and natural, it would not exist; there would be no reason for it to exist. The non-inverted camera exists because many people have difficulties in understanding basic physics.

Now you are being funny. You blame people in not understanding physics while you yourself have trouble with it. Just let's continue your logic. You say that, when a person looks up, his/her back of the head moves down, and vice verse. Guess what: when a person looks left, his/her back of the head moves right, and vice verse. That is, either you have to invert both X and Y axis, or neither. Inverting just Y while leaving X alone is the most unnatural and illogical way to do it. You are used to it from 90-s when it was popular, so it became "natural" for you - but you can't accept that other people have it "natural" the other way.

It is as if you were left-handed and called right-handed people being illogical and acting unnatural. What is natural for you is not necessarily natural for others.

Also, I don't really understand the point of this thread. If you were like, "OK guys, I like inverted Y. Do you like to invert Y or not? Please explain why, I am curious about others' habits" - that would be totally reasonable. Instead, you go, "I use inverted Y because it is natural and logical. Everyone who uses non-inverted Y doesn't understand basic physics". Really? What a great way to go, what a tolerance towards others' opinion! Why did you create this thread in the first place if you are not interested in what other people have to say and automatically dismiss their opinion as "wrong"?

[Puupi]

Why would anyone invert mouse? I mean, you surely can write words backwards, or ride bicycle back to front, but why would you want to do that? It doesn't seem logical or intuitive.

Because it is logical? You move the camera.

I don't see how it can be natural or logical.

Well, that there is the problem.

How is this inverted? When I want to look to the left, I move my mouse to the left. When I want to look to the top, why should I move my mouse to the bottom?

Press mouse1 in WoW and move your mouse left. What happens? Camera moves left -> you see more to the right.

Your argument with "moving the head to the back" just doesn't work - I can look up without moving my head back, and so can you, just try it.

How funny.

And yet that's exactly what you do with inverted Y: you move the building! You move your mouse up and the building goes up.

GG.

Now you are being funny. You blame people in not understanding physics while you yourself have trouble with it.

I said non-inverted became popular due to people not understanding physics and the logic behind the camera movement. Just above you made a good example of being one.

Just let's continue your logic. You say that, when a person looks up, his/her back of the head moves down, and vice verse. Guess what: when a person looks left, his/her back of the head moves right, and vice verse. That is, either you have to invert both X and Y axis, or neither.

No, the logic is not "where the back of your head is heading", but at what direction you are turning your head (face).

Inverting just Y while leaving X alone is the most unnatural and illogical way to do it. You are used to it from 90-s when it was popular, so it became "natural" for you - but you can't accept that other people have it "natural" the other way.

No, it's the logical and natural way regardless of whether I am accustomed to it or not.

It is as if you were left-handed and called right-handed people being illogical and acting unnatural. What is natural for you is not necessarily natural for others.

Right/left-handedness has nothing to do with this. This isn't about your natural preferences, it's about logic and understanding basic laws of physics.

Also, I don't really understand the point of this thread.

I guess you didn't read the first post?

If you were like, "OK guys, I like inverted Y. Do you like to invert Y or not? Please explain why, I am curious about others' habits" - that would be totally reasonable. Instead, you go, "I use inverted Y because it is natural and logical. Everyone who uses non-inverted Y doesn't understand basic physics".

No, I said I use inverted and asked whether others do or don't. Then people claimed inverted is "unnatural and illogical", which I proved to be false. I also never said EVERYONE who uses non-inverted doesn't understand basic physics. I said it is a big reason why people prefer non-inverted instead of inverted. Understanding it doesn't change one's preference; just acknowledging the truth.

Really? What a great way to go, what a tolerance towards others' opinion! Why did you create this thread in the first place if you are not interested in what other people have to say and automatically dismiss their opinion as "wrong"?

Read the first post before making such accusations. And I didn't automatically dismiss others as "wrong". I proved them wrong, there is a big difference.

[Dudemanguy]

I prefer inverted in flight simulators...but for first person shooters, none-inverted. I don't blame you though. I do think of it like this...inverted is more of controlling your neck, whereas none-inverted is controlling your face. :P

[Deleted]

From my own experience, it is just a question of what I am used to, both can feel just as natural as the other one depending on how long I have done it for.

I used to play as inverted as I think that was generally the default at the time but for a long time now I have played the non-inverted way. I really find no difference, whatever I am used to feels the natural way.

[XDurionX]

There is no "3D-Environment" in gaming. There´s only a 2D-Projection, which makes all you inverted guys wrong and sick. Do you really tilt your head when looking at a 2D-screen? I don´t. Feels weird. Normal is "normal" of course! Want to look left, i move my eyes left, i move my mouse left. Want to look up, i move my eyes up, i move my mouse up. Easy as that. Anything else is counterintuitive and counternatural.

[Primernova]

Pull back on the mouse, to look up.

But whatever you're used too.

Ergonomics, though.

[Adam Jensen]

There is natural and unnatural. Inverted mouse follows the laws of physics and one could argue that is the NATURAL way to do things.

No. Its your preference vs my preference and what is natural to you is unnatural to me and vice versa. You play like you're controlling a camera, I play like I'm controlling a person, thus, looking up to me means moving the mouse up.

Moving the mouse down to look up just seems weird to me because I've never grown accustomed to it. You have.

Either way I don't understand why you're bring so goddamn annoyingly condescending about it.

[Puupi]

No. Its your preference vs my preference and what is natural to you is unnatural to me and vice versa.

No, just no.

You play like you're controlling a camera, I play like I'm controlling a person, thus, looking up to me means moving the mouse up.

If you are playing from 3rd person (like you do in MMO's), how can you even argue that you are controlling a person instead of camera? Honestly? With invert mouse on, locking the camera with mouse2 and free roaming camera with mouse1 follow the exactly same sets of rules regarding the movement. Whereas non-invert mouse control moves the view with different sets of rules depending on whether you press mouse1 or mouse2. That is illogical.

Moving the mouse down to look up just seems weird to me because I've never grown accustomed to it. You have.

So? Because it's "weird" to you means it isn't logical? Driving on the left side of the road is weird to me. But it is no less logical than driving on the right side of the road. There is no natural or logic behind those options. But this is not the case with invert/non-invert mouse.

Either way I don't understand why you're bring so goddamn annoyingly condescending about it.

I'm no less condescending than you are.

[Deleted]

looking downwards = movement of the whole face downwards
looking upwards = movement of the whole face upwards

so why can't i control games that way. why should i control a imaginary force controlling my pov from outside my head?! theres no stick in the back of my head im pushing and pulling. if you want the realistic natural way like all of you are pretending we had 2 levers which we could only pull down corresponding to our muscles in our neck and throat.