Muslims fare better in America than in Europe

[GennGreymane]

http://www.economist.com/news/united...cyetintegrated

America’s Muslims differ from Europe’s in both quantity and origin. The census does not ask about faith, but estimates put the number of Muslims in the country at around 1% of the population, compared with 4.5% in Britain and 5% in Germany. Moreover, American Islam is not dominated by a single sect or ethnicity. When the Pew Research Centre last tried to count, in 2011, it found Muslims from 77 countries in America. Most western European countries, by contrast, have one or two dominant groups—Algerians in France, Moroccans and Turks in Holland. This matters because the jumble of groups in America makes it harder for Muslim immigrants and their descendants to lead a life apart. Different traditions get squashed together. When building mosques, says Chris McCoy, a Kentucky native who is a prolific architect of Islamic buildings, “the question is usually not whether we should have an Indian- or a Saudi-style dome but, can we afford a dome?” Mixing breeds tolerance: Pew found that most American Muslims think that their faith is open to multiple interpretations, making them the Episcopalians of the Islamic world.

America’s Muslims are better off than their European co-religionists. They are almost as likely as other Americans to report a household income of $100,000 or more. The same cannot be said of the Pakistanis who came to work in the now-defunct textile mills of northern England or the Turks who became guest workers in West Germany. Many American Muslims arrived in the 1970s to complete their higher education and ended up staying. Muzammil Siddiqi, chairman of the Fiqh Council of North America, which issues fatwas, or religious opinions, to guide the behaviour of the country’s Muslims, is typical: he was born in India and holds a Harvard PhD in comparative religion.

Integration in the U.S based on this article is drastically different for the U.S and Europe for many reasons. While Muslims are the focus here, there is much to be said about other groups as well. Discuss!

[Hardkorr]

Does the article take into consideration those in prison who convert to Islam? I hear it is a pretty popular religion there.

[Independent voter]

Palestinians, Turks, Jordanians, Iraqis, Pakistanis, Iranians, etc who come to the US embrace education. We have subcultures who avoid education, you know who you are, but they're not Muslim. And education usually leads to better paying jobs. There's a lot of Muslims in business, healthcare, education etc.

[Bladeface]

Does the article take into consideration those in prison who convert to Islam? I hear it is a pretty popular religion there.

there are actually 2 types of muslims... the actual islamic ones, and the ones who believe white people are demons created by a black scientist to keep minorities down. this is an actual thing for some reason, it is called the "nation of islam", and this is what most of the prison converts are.

[Independent voter]

I don't think Muslims consider the Nation of Islam Muslims. I know of at least one faction of Nation of Islam who separated from the main group and became actual practicing Muslims.

[Hardkorr]

there are actually 2 types of muslims... the actual islamic ones, and the ones who believe white people are demons created by a black scientist to keep minorities down. this is an actual thing for some reason, it is called the "nation of islam", and this is what most of the prison converts are.

Even the "actual Islamic ones" have many different sects, though. It is like saying Mormons aren't Christian because they are not actually Protestant. Sure it is very different, but they should still be considered Muslims. But if you disagree, then that's aight. It is somewhat unclear.

[GennGreymane]

Stay on topic and focus on the immigration stuff

[chrisberb]

Stay on topic and focus on the immigration stuff

What do you want people to discuss? You provided what seems to be a pretty solid account of the affairs of Muslim immigrants in different countries, and simply said "Discuss!"

[Hooked]

I disagree emphatically. I think Muslims are much better off in Europe than the USA.

[Sledfang]

I do get the sense that Muslims may be integrating into America better than in Europe. I only know one of one Muslim immigrant in my community and he is well integrated and even has US flags waving around his property. He also runs a business and works hard. I think its when you get a bunch of them clumped together on welfare that problems arise.

[Independent voter]

I disagree emphatically. I think Muslims are much better off in Europe than the USA.

I think there is less racism against Muslims in the US. Hear me out! It's not perfect in the US and God knows we have our problems with racism but your average Muslims is pretty far down on the list of people to be racist against.

[klogaroth]

The point about people who moved to Europe post war to work in industry is one of the driving factors behind the wealth difference.

The reasons for moving and the jobs available were very different in different western countries.

The mixing of cultures thing is much the same. There was no real need for mass immigration in the US post-WW2 as far as I'm aware. Europe had very significant immigration and that was usually part of a recruitment drive in specific nations. As the article mentions a lot of Turks went to Germany and a lot of Pakistanis went to England.

As is usually the case in war a lot of those that died were from lower income backgrounds, so after the war when those workers jobs needed to be filled people were recruited to.......fill those kinds of jobs. As you would expect.

Migrants to the US on the other hand were not (afaik) part of a mass recruitment drive, and as such came from a variety of places. People moving there probably wouldn't have been moving to fill jobs in industry, didn't arrive in such a pronounced wave, and would have had to get through standard US immigration procedure. Given the requirements of getting a work visa in the US it's pretty obvious that anyone moving to the US is likely to be wealthier than someone who has moved somewhere to work in industry.

[Wells]

I do get the sense that Muslims may be integrating into America better than in Europe. I only know one of one Muslim immigrant in my community and he is well integrated and even has US flags waving around his property. He also runs a business and works hard. I think its when you get a bunch of them clumped together on welfare that problems arise.

The success of integration is at least as much on the nation they're integrating in to as it is on the immigrant.

[Hardkorr]

Stay on topic and focus on the immigration stuff

Sorry about that derailment, brosef. OT: I think the reason why Muslim immigrants fare better in the US is because they get Amercanized or ostracized. In Europe, there is virtually no need for that much conformity and that's why they don't have it as good. They do not conform.

[DEATHETERNAL]

I would imagine that better integration in America than in Europe plays a role in that. We aren't as multicultural here, so people would be a lot more likely to actually get with the program I'd think.

[Sledfang]

I think the reason why Muslim immigrants fare better in the US is because they get Amercanized or ostracized. In Europe, there is virtually no need for that much conformity and that's why they don't have it as good. They do not conform.

I agree. As long as their not clumped up too densely in a city, they know that they will not get far without integrating. I might not agree with the word ostricize, but its not far off. For example, a Muslim that runs their own business knows that if they have some foreign flag showing, their simply not going to get as much business.

[Hooked]

At this point in history I find it difficult to empathize with muslims.

[Wells]

At this point in history I find it difficult to empathize with muslims.

I doubt you even know any.

[armax]

is weird how people are afraid of muslims yet the Cristian religion is the one responsible for the most evil deeds in human history


[Infracted]

[Hooked]

Our Palestinian "friends" after 9/11.


[Infracted]