2 Raid Tiers per Expansion is like ...

[Haywire5714]

A story with only a beginning and an end; anyone else feel this way? It's hard for me to imagine the previous expansions without Ulduar, Firelands and ToT, which were the best raids in their respective expansions imo. I think we're going to be at the end of the expansion and it's going to feel like something was missing.

[yjmark]

A story with only a beginning and an end; anyone else feel this way? It's hard for me to imagine the previous expansions without Ulduar, Firelands and ToT, which were the best raids in their respective expansions imo. I think we're going to be at the end of the expansion and it's going to feel like something was missing.

Instead of removing the good ones, try removing the bad ones.

Ex - WotLK - Only have Ulduar and ICC. Remove Naxx 2.0 and ToC. Would that really be bad?

[SL1200]

It doesn't sound good. I wouldn't want it, and i doubt they'll ever be able to deliver it. Seems so greedy to me to only do 2 raid tiers and have a subscription. The price of playing the game never bothered me, but I think they're getting a little too greedy now.

[HoneyBiscuit]

I kind of like the idea of showing up to some new land to kill the newest big bad evil guy who's threatening the world (even if that get's a little tired) and having to stop mid way through, because some other big bad evil guy just shows up. You as a hero to your respective people put your previous goal on the back burner to lay some hurt on them.

Like if you were on your way to kill a dragon that's been terrorizing the countryside and on the way you stop in a town being attacked weekly by bandits and they ask for your help. Hell yeah, bandits are dicks, I got time before the dragon let's go mess them up.

TL;DR Yes. Stuff like that is half the reason I like playing open world RPG's. End goal is cool, but the stuff that happens in between is generally most memorable for me.

[KCguy]

Remember, we have no idea how long this expansion is going to be out for. Perhaps their next xpac will be released much faster? I know that sounds silly, but you never know.

[PuppetShowJustice]

Ex - WotLK - Only have Ulduar and ICC. Remove Naxx 2.0 and ToC. Would that really be bad?

Errrr. Naxx also shared its tier with Sarth and Malygos. That's quite a big cut to sugest.

[Gadfly]

Especially when this is the most expensive, upfront, expansion.
I feel like this is a 'get the game back on track expansion'.
Quick little U-turn from when Cata and Mop took us.
They just want to get it out there and fixed. But it should have been priced a bit less than MoP with no new class and no new race.

I really wish they would move to a better 'upgrade' model.
It would help the new people coming in.
Example:
When WoD is released it is $59 off the shelf, but that gets you everything 1-100. Don't need to mess with buying old versions..
If you have MoP it would be a $20 upgrade fee to WoD, if you only have Cata it would be a $30 upgrade fee.

If they did this model for MoP, I would have paid nearly $400 for MoP Content. (Base + Sub)
That seems pretty reasonable to me.
And if they only do 2 tiers you aren't gouged on the upfront price.
At this point it isn't what current players would pay to keep playing. They need to think about what would help bring in NEW subs.
It can't keep bleeding like this if they want to keep the subs above a critical mass.

[MrExcelion]

Totally agree. Wish they'd stick to tiers, 24 month expansion releases, with the tiers spread about 8/7/9 apart (extra month for that first tier because of the gated release/leveling time)

Those mid-tiers are a great opportunity to do something different, and yeah, I don't want to pay 50 bucks more frequently either

[Boottybounce]

2 raid tiers per expansion is like... having a sandwich with just bread on it. I would really hate to see this expansion without a tot, and would hate to see any expansion with just 3 tiers. I can already predict them excusing themselves with "oh but we have 2-3 raids for the first tier." Which has been the case for a few expansions now, getting a few raids for the first tier.

[Quass]

I'm not sure if I understand this concept of two tiers. Like, the beginning of the Expansion is the 1st tier, and the 2nd one after 6 months? If what Blizzard said is true (next expansion after 18 months), doesn't it leave us with a full year of no-content? Just asking.

[Madruga]

What this emplies to me is that the so desired "faster expansions" means actually "less content for the same price".

Meaning, they don't really deliver more content, but instead the exactly same ammount from a single expansion is split across multiple expansions, making us pay twice for the same ammount of content we have today.

Also, 3 tiers per expansion is the sweet spot for me. No more, no less.

[Sesto]

...it is like...people getting their wish for faster x-pac releases and then whining when they find out they now pay 45 Euros every 18 months instead of every 24.

When people say they want faster expansions that means they don't want to spend a fucking year in the last tier. I don't know how many times I need to repeat this. NOBODY wants less content in an expansion.

...it is like...people getting their wish for faster x-pac releases and then whining when they find out they now pay 45 Euros every 18 months instead of every 24.

In Classic it would remove AQ and Naxx. Epic places, but like 3 guilds cleared them
In TBC it means shortening TBC and removing SWP. Another nice raid, but 5 guilds cleared it
In WotLK it means removing Naxx re-hashed and ToC (plus Ruby Sanctum)...raids people QQ about (as if they all cleared Naxx 40...when we all know only 3 guilds cleared it)
In Cata we would lose DS - a raid that is voted worst by the good folks of MMO Champion
In MoP it would not mean cutting a raid but shortening SoO down to 6 months.

Humour me..I exaggerate on some because the constant whine in this forum annoys me.

Also, what? That's not how it works. We wouldn't lose DS, we would lose Firelands. How the fuck would we lose the raid with the expansion's villain in it?

We are talking about cutting the middle tier. So in WOTLK we would lose Ulduar, since it isn't relevant to the main story. This applies for the rest, too.

[Quass]

Also, 3 tiers per expansion is the sweet spot for me. No more, no less.

I wouldn't mind a 4-tier expansion, if it had enough story to tell, and places to see :P

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

If done well, it can work. But the key thing is having 2 tiers cannot let them tell the same stories they did with 3.

MoP with 2 tiers would have to have removed the entire Lei'shen and Zandalari storylines. So as not to leave them as a huge loose end.

And with the Ogres being left unresolved, along with the Arrakoa, and those giant natural/elemental things..... yeah, there should be 3 tiers.

[Gadfly]

Totally agree. Wish they'd stick to tiers, 24 month expansion releases, with the tiers spread about 7/7/9 apart

Those mid-tiers are a great opportunity to do something different, and yeah, I don't want to pay 50 bucks more frequently either

Either way, how ever they proceed they need to keep in mind the amount of tiers per raid when pricing it.
It isn't fair to say this expansion will last 18 months with only 2 tiers, and then charge the same for an expansion that lasted 24+ with 3+ Tiers.
They are moving to the CoD pricing scheme, but COD doesn't have a monthly sub.
They are trying to cherry pick the most greedy aspects of those schemes and combine them, which I think will only help thin the crowd out.

[Sesto]

Only having two raid tiers doesn't mean you get less content overall. Just less raid content. Which I'm fine with, honestly.

If you get less raid content, that means less content overall. What you said makes no sense.

[intrinsc]

If two tiers fits their storytelling then what's so wrong with it? MOP was planned with 3 tiers and the raids felt cohesive to the story because it was planned that way. Two tiers, and 4 raid instances. Could tell the story throughout those 4(or 3) as well as three tiers if it's planned and done right like before. Highmaul(beginning), Blackrock Foundry(middle), Grom raid(end). Solved.

[TheAngryGazebo]

Mid-expansion tiers have often felt like diversions anyways; Ulduar, Firelands, Throne of Thunder all felt disconnected from the main storyline of the expansion. (I know Rag was 'with' Deathwing, but it never really felt connected). So I don't feel like we're losing the 'middle' insomuch as we're losing the 4-6 month 'interlude' in the middle of the expansion's life.

I think a 2 raid tier expansion cycle could work, but they would absolutely have to be able to deliver the next expansion in a timely manner. 4 months of Tier 1 and 15 months of Tier 2 will not fly.

[Rivin]

What this emplies to me is that the so desired "faster expansions" means actually "less content for the same price".

Meaning, they don't really deliver more content, but instead the exactly same ammount from a single expansion is split across multiple expansions, making us pay twice for the same ammount of content we have today.

That really depends on how you look at it. We'd get less raid content per expansion, but more raid content overall because the between-expansion gaps would (theoretically) disappear. And we'd get a lot more content in general, just not raid content.

- - - Updated - - -

If done well, it can work. But the key thing is having 2 tiers cannot let them tell the same stories they did with 3.

MoP with 2 tiers would have to have removed the entire Lei'shen and Zandalari storylines. So as not to leave them as a huge loose end.

Or they could've had Lei Shen be the focus of Pandaria, with Throne of Thunder as the final raid, and had the Garrosh storyline be the focus of a new expansion.

[Sesto]

Or you just didn't understand it. Raid content isn't the only content that can be added...

Do you really think they are going to add patches of content to replace the raid content they are cutting? Too funny.