Official 3.0 thread.

[gamz247]

Considering I paid for that difference with my limited time - pretty important. And if you had any perspective at all you'll know that in the end time is the only important currency you pay in mmos.

Then your time must be much more valuable than mine, since I pay the same amount, yet care only a fraction of what you do regarding this change.

[Kelimbror]

it just looks like you lack perspective

Ironic coming from the person who can't understand other people's views...

[gamz247]

Ironic coming from the person who can't understand other people's views...

I understand where you're coming from, but I believe your anger is unwarranted and your comparison was invalid.

[quras]

SNIP..... How important is it really that you may only see an 8500 crit as opposed to a 10000 crit?

How important is progression in a progression based game?

Pretty damn important. I feel safe in saying, most dislike a two step back - 2 step forward progression where you didn't actually go anywhere so year old content can stick around longer.

If numbers were the problem, it would be different if BW reduced everything across the board. Player stats, mob stats etc... Everything reduced to reduce the numbers but all done equally.

That is not the case here. Players are getting nerfed so they can level up to get back where they were before the nerf and the only real reason they are doing it is because BW wants DF/DP to stay somewhat difficult at 60. They don't want 60 running 55 content like 55 runs 50 content now. To make that happen, they have to kill some tier levels. (aka - 186 being equal to 198 even though their 5 levels different)

Every player is getting nerfed just so DF/DP can be kept around. And lets say the NM content farmers were doing some high DPS. Did anyone not expect to see that happening. DPs better than the average players DPS. That type of gamer will always do better but the catch is they are so few farming NM content and doing that DPS it's an outlier in the bell curve. You can pretty much ignore those numbers and the whole would stay the same and even keel.

You don't nerf everyone just to keep some year old content relevant and then base a nerf to everyone off some NM farming players DPS.

[Kelimbror]

I understand where you're coming from, but I believe your anger is unwarranted and your comparison was invalid.

You're free to think the grass is grey without my judgment. I understand that colorblindness is real and not a choice. I'm also not angry in the slightest, which I addressed earlier saying that this effects me very little since I only preordered to level characters now. That doesn't mean I can't comment on how dumb it is to the nth degree.

Objectively speaking, what they are doing goes against the entire premise of traditional, progression oriented MMO gameplay design. In other words, it's utter shite.

[Goshko]

Then your time must be much more valuable than mine, since I pay the same amount, yet care only a fraction of what you do regarding this change.

You probably have a lot of it waste then ? The less you have of something the more valuable it becomes.

[Svifnymr]

Objectively speaking, what they are doing goes against the entire premise of traditional, progression oriented MMO gameplay design. In other words, it's utter shite.

It does feel in line with their F2P conversion of "take stuff away and let them buy them back" though...

I'm of the wait and see mindset, but I'm also not a raider so we'll see.

[Katchii]

The "squish" (aka nerf) is retarded and the reason they're doing it is completely absurd. As someone stated earlier, you don't base your DPS assumptions off of numbers being put out by the people at the tippy top of the gear scale and comparing that to the middle of the pack.... the numbers are skewed, which they're supposed to be. That's the whole fucking reason people GET new gear, is to put out better numbers.

They also all but said they're doing this to keep some current content relevant. If that's not a red flag for how little they prioritize the creation of new combat based/ group/ end game content.... I don't know what is.

[Deleted]

Bioware can't balance an MMO properly, who would have guessed.

Also have fun trying to PvP in 3.0. Making the already broken classes stronger because that's apparently how you fix the issues. Not to worry though! I'm sure they'll release more awesome gear, for a few thousand cartel coins but hey, they gotta make money somehow right?

I think it might be time to shelf this game.

[quras]

Bioware can't balance an MMO properly, who would have guessed.

Also have fun trying to PvP in 3.0. Making the already broken classes stronger because that's apparently how you fix the issues. Not to worry though! I'm sure they'll release more awesome gear, for a few thousand cartel coins but hey, they gotta make money somehow right?

I think it might be time to shelf this game.

You must not be keeping up.

PVP is getting some nice changes.

Most classes are getting more mobile. Interrupts are getting a longer CD and cleanse abilities are getting a longer CD as well so DOT classes are more viable. PVP is actually looking pretty interesting.

The big change is coming to PVE and has nothing to do with the cartel market nor bought cosmetic gear but it is a very warped way to design none the less.

It's a nerf based off NM raiders to everyone just so DF/DP can be kept as relevant content and still somewhat difficult. Year old content kept around so you get an alternate way to get comms and accomplished by nerfing everyone. You will level up to be back at 55 power so DF/DP stay relevant.

Thats the part screwed up. Not PVP. PVP is actually starting to sound more interesting.

You're a bit off base.

[Fkiolaris]

You must not be keeping up.

PVP is getting some nice changes.

Most classes are getting more mobile. Interrupts are getting a longer CD and cleanse abilities are getting a longer CD as well so DOT classes are more viable. PVP is actually looking pretty interesting.

The big change is coming to PVE and has nothing to do with the cartel market nor bought cosmetic gear but it is a very warped way to design none the less.

It's a nerf based off NM raiders to everyone just so DF/DP can be kept as relevant content and still somewhat difficult. Year old content kept around so you get an alternate way to get comms and accomplished by nerfing everyone. You will level up to be back at 55 power so DF/DP stay relevant.

Thats the part screwed up. Not PVP. PVP is actually starting to sound more interesting.

You're a bit off base.

From this answer I must assume that you play a range dps spec, because everything you described are the exact same reasons that all melee is pulling their hair right now. Add that you can cleanse CCs as well and good luck catching any range dps spec that can run and gun, get interrupted less frequently, have CCs cleansed off it, bubble-stun and so on and so forth. That is also the biggest irony with disciplines, that they were saying "bad hybrids" and all kind of bullshite as the justification for the new system and then they go full retard with the utilities for the range dps.

[quras]

From this answer I must assume that you play a range dps spec, because everything you described are the exact same reasons that all melee is pulling their hair right now. Add that you can cleanse CCs as well and good luck catching any range dps spec that can run and gun, get interrupted less frequently, have CCs cleansed off it, bubble-stun and so on and so forth.

I play both actually. Sage and vanguard.

BUT you are in luck. CC is also being curbed a bit as well. I think their goal was to keep PVP more dynamic and your personal stun removal will still work as it hasn't been mentioned as getting a longer CD.

That is also the biggest irony with disciplines, that they were saying "bad hybrids" and all kind of bullshite as the justification for the new system and then they go full retard with the utilities for the range dps.

I can't say I'm fond of the discipline stuff as I didn't care for it in WOW but I do know hybrids are a bit difficult to balance around when you have a skill tree format and changing them to allow some better balance is not so bad. Especially if a side affect of it is new gamers getting into the game feel like the role they want to play sooner. AKA - Tanks feeling like tanks at level 10 instead of 20 or higher.

Something I've also noticed is many of the utilities gamers get to choose seem to be more PVP based so you can at least customize a bit better for PVP.

I don't know that I'll like it in the end but it's it does look better for PVP than PVE.

[xuros]

How important is progression in a progression based game?

Pretty damn important. I feel safe in saying, most dislike a two step back - 2 step forward progression where you didn't actually go anywhere so year old content can stick around longer.

If numbers were the problem, it would be different if BW reduced everything across the board. Player stats, mob stats etc... Everything reduced to reduce the numbers but all done equally.

That is not the case here. Players are getting nerfed so they can level up to get back where they were before the nerf and the only real reason they are doing it is because BW wants DF/DP to stay somewhat difficult at 60. They don't want 60 running 55 content like 55 runs 50 content now. To make that happen, they have to kill some tier levels. (aka - 186 being equal to 198 even though their 5 levels different)

Every player is getting nerfed just so DF/DP can be kept around. And lets say the NM content farmers were doing some high DPS. Did anyone not expect to see that happening. DPs better than the average players DPS. That type of gamer will always do better but the catch is they are so few farming NM content and doing that DPS it's an outlier in the bell curve. You can pretty much ignore those numbers and the whole would stay the same and even keel.

You don't nerf everyone just to keep some year old content relevant and then base a nerf to everyone off some NM farming players DPS.

They said this? lol wtf. I see no reason to do this. Not doubting you, I just didnt read that and it seems like a idiot move on their part.

[gamz247]

They said this? lol wtf. I see no reason to do this. Not doubting you, I just didnt read that and it seems like a idiot move on their part.

They wanted to keep some current content relevant, so they're reducing everyone's power somewhat. OK. It's not like flight in WoD. You are guaranteed to be just as powerful as you are now, and more, eventually.

[Kelimbror]

They wanted to keep some current content relevant, so they're reducing everyone's power somewhat. OK. It's not like flight in WoD. You are guaranteed to be just as powerful as you are now, and more, eventually.

You know you've reached a low point in an MMO argument when you try to dis WoW, the objectively most well rounded game in the genre, to try and make another game look better. :-/

[gamz247]

You know you've reached a low point in an MMO argument when you try to dis WoW, the objectively most well rounded game in the genre, to try and make another game look better. :-/

Blizzard is making an incredibly poor decision that only they have the power to correct.

Bioware is making a poor decision that can be corrected by players in a matter of weeks.

[Edge-]

They wanted to keep some current content relevant, so they're reducing everyone's power somewhat. OK. It's not like flight in WoD. You are guaranteed to be just as powerful as you are now, and more, eventually.

Would the better option not be to...you know...scale players to the level of the content they're doing, at least if it's instanced? Like mentoring.

It's a system that's been around for many, many years, and has been proven successful at dramatically opening up the amount of "relevant" content for players without adversely affecting them at max level or negatively impacting their feeling of character progression.

I don't see what flight has to do with character power progression though. Like, it's not even remotely related.

[gamz247]

I don't see what flight has to do with character power progression though. Like, it's not even remotely related.

It's a comparison to another controversial expansion change. The power level nerf is temporary. The removal of flight may be permanent.

[Edge-]

It's a comparison to another controversial expansion change. The power level nerf is temporary. The removal of flight may be permanent.

That's not player power though. That doesn't make them do less damage, or regress in terms of how much damage or healing they do in any way. It doesn't impact their combat performance as players.

There's a difference, simply because it's controversial doesn't make it comparable.

The fact still remains, it's a stupid way to go about trying to expand what can be seen as "relevant" content, and that there are far better examples of how to do so through player level scaling/gear scaling presented in multiple other MMO's.

[gamz247]

That's not player power though. That doesn't make them do less damage, or regress in terms of how much damage or healing they do in any way. It doesn't impact their combat performance as players.

No, it doesn't, but it does change how the player enjoys the game. A person playing WoD may not enjoy the game as much because they won't be able to fly on Draenor. A person playing SoR may not enjoy the game as much because they're weaker than they were before. Hopefully those people will be able to enjoy it more once they get what they need to feel stronger.

The fact still remains, it's a stupid way to go about trying to expand what can be seen as "relevant" content, and that there are far better examples of how to do so through player level scaling/gear scaling presented in multiple other MMO's.

Nobody's saying that there aren't better ways to do this. All I'm saying is that it's a short-term problem.