PTR Impressions - Elemental

[Sodia]

1) Obviously, LvB is a casted spell. I don't see why that'd be surprising. The whole tier sucks for movement (lol AS).
2) 20% baseline, 30% upon Eleblast:Multistrike


/edit:
Damage with my gear (540 gear minus everything that has big procs => 430 lvl) against lvl 80 dummies:
Fulm15: 390k (28k per charge)
LvB: 325k
EleBlast: 180k
Molten Earth: 180k per hit
LBolt: 150k
Earth Shock: 115k
Searing: 25k per hit
FlameShock: 20k per tick
(Legendary Cloak: 700 per tick, not 700k)

ES+0 > LB
Unleash Flame seems worth casting over LB for both FS and LvB
Molten Earth does huge amounts of damage. Good for movement and against lockdowns, bad for burst

After Mythic testing i'm realy dissipointed in ELE. Loong casting time for LvB weach do low Damage now .EQ is ok if not the problem that there is no bloody fight where the ads ar in one spot all the time , CL ...... LOL...... Lets say it we have nothing NOTHING to compare with other clases, Single below average ,Multi not even a fraction whot it was in MOP CL nerfed to the ground EQ ok but only if your lucky and Liquid Magma is buged, Ascendance ... I dont know whot they did to it but its not woth to use it DPS gos down insted of goin up . Ele is one big dissipointment right now no more no les .

[mrpoundsign]

There is no reason to bring us over mages even when ignoring numbers.

Reason 1: You're a better player than a random mage.
Reason 2: Grace of Air. Mastery and haste are not provided by mages.

[Hoptam]

Reason 1: You're a better player than a random mage.
Reason 2: Grace of Air. Mastery and haste are not provided by mages.

posts like this make me smile. Thanks

[paror]

Reason 1: You're a better player than a random mage.
Reason 2: Grace of Air. Mastery and haste are not provided by mages.

Amplify magic is.
Int.buff
Free food/water
Timewarp has been given ages ago....

//
Logged in PTR, casted some spells for 30 mins on dummies. Nope just nope. Decided to watch some ele movies. But damn they really did a number on ele. They totally have broken everything I ever liked about being elemental.
Good thing I switched mains a long time ago.

Good example is how there's no spell who can be cast under like 15 seconds anymore(it feels that way)
"there will be less movement" hahaha I just watched a mythic encounter. The only thing the raid does is moving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJYiIcvIqY

Anyway I am not even going to level my shaman up anymore when WoD hits. I use to keep playing my shaman as alt for that late patch every expansion that sorta made ele playable again.In WoD I am just leaving him at 90.

[Deleted]

Amplify magic is.
Int.buff
Free food/water
Timewarp has been given ages ago....

//
Logged in PTR, casted some spells for 30 mins on dummies. Nope just nope. Decided to watch some ele movies. But damn they really did a number on ele. They totally have broken everything I ever liked about being elemental.
Good thing I switched mains a long time ago.

Good example is how there's no spell who can be cast under like 15 seconds anymore(it feels that way)
"there will be less movement" hahaha I just watched a mythic encounter. The only thing the raid does is moving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJYiIcvIqY

Anyway I am not even going to level my shaman up anymore when WoD hits. I use to keep playing my shaman as alt for that late patch every expansion that sorta made ele playable again.In WoD I am just leaving him at 90.

He's in the top 3 dps pretty consistently. I can't tell if it's fun to play, because I haven't signed up for beta, but numberwise the video suggests ele is more than fine.

- - - Updated - - -

btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFIBCICUPOo
just because they DID run around all the time... you know?

[paror]

He's in the top 3 dps pretty consistently. I can't tell if it's fun to play, because I haven't signed up for beta, but numberwise the video suggests ele is more than fine.

- - - Updated - - -

btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFIBCICUPOo
just because they DID run around all the time... you know?

Not about numbers or damage done.is about what i liked about the class
Big lavaburst numbers. Cl niche. Etc
In wod. Es is hard hitter . Searing buffed wich is the definition of bloat.
Running whiLe casting gone. Clunky talent synergy.(echo ) Totems for the past 4 years are shit.
Instant hex removed. Eq back in. Only ever liked the channeling version of it.

[mrpoundsign]

Amplify magic is.
Int.buff
Free food/water

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you meant "why you take a shaman, always, instead of a mage." Sorry, your little dream of always being more OP than some other random class you pull out of your butt isn't going to happen.

I forgot you could only take one or the other. (note: sarcasm.)

[Deleted]

He's in the top 3 dps pretty consistently. I can't tell if it's fun to play, because I haven't signed up for beta, but numberwise the video suggests ele is more than fine.

- - - Updated - - -

btw: youtube . com/watch?v=hFIBCICUPOo
just because they DID run around all the time... you know?

Well, I enjoyed the encounter... even with that movement.

encounter-wise: Let's see how "final" tactics will look like. This was a random raid without TS with lots of unneeded movement.
playstile-wise it was exactly what Blizz said: You have to care about your movement and related skills (SWG). And it is adding another part in your skill inventory. That's totally fine for me even LB on the run was fun.
Number-wise: I think the raid was not a good example for that.

In general I really enjoyed the fight even I remembered very late that you could stand between to moving belts. And... it was a random raid, no TS... Look here for better positioning from a guild raid: youtube . com/watch?v=hFIBCICUPOo

[paror]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you meant "why you take a shaman, always, instead of a mage." Sorry, your little dream of always being more OP than some other random class you pull out of your butt isn't going to happen.

I forgot you could only take one or the other. (note: sarcasm.)

You point out in 1. "random mage"

I point out he brings stuff to the raid aswell. Mage actually brings a raid utility next xpac. Shaman does not.
I am not refering to being op anywhere in my post, I am not talking numbers. I purely talked about mechanics wich I diddnt like.

[binkenstein]

FYI, the ES0>LB thing was "fixed" with the reduction to ES in the last patch. It still applies if you're using Fusion though, but it'll be better to stick with the current ES use rules anyway.

[Lavindar]

FYI, the ES0>LB thing was "fixed" with the reduction to ES in the last patch. It still applies if you're using Fusion though, but it'll be better to stick with the current ES use rules anyway.

Well, It would made sense that if you take Fusion that Earth Shock would increase in priority, buffing the shocks is the reason of the talent existing in the first place.

[Zxzas]

New earthquake is actually pretty freaking OP when you use it with EotE. I have like 200% mastery on my retail character copy and 40% haste, cast times are about 1.47 which I can deal with, mastery does about 4k damage per strike on the target which is good I think? I still feel like Ele sham stat weights are going to be mastery = haste

[Northy]

Our damage is crap and melee stomp us into the dirt.

[Deleted]

Our damage is crap and melee stomp us into the dirt.

I don't think anyone seriously considers playing elemental in the first few patches of any expansion in pvp anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

FYI, the ES0>LB thing was "fixed" with the reduction to ES in the last patch. It still applies if you're using Fusion though, but it'll be better to stick with the current ES use rules anyway.

Why would you not shock on cooldown if it's higher DPCT and thus higher DPS? Obviously making sure you don't mess up your FS uptime/cooldown. Is there anything that encourages stacking LS higher?

The way I see it, it's like this:
Shock >>> LB = you shock on cooldown
Shock < LB = you wait until Shock+LS stacks is higher DPCT than LB. After that point you're kinda free to shock at will. There's an incentive to stack to max stacks, because you will still not waste LS charges, but use them with less shocks (which individually are lower DPCT than LB)
Shock + max LS < LB. Unlikely.

[desert-wind]

I don't think anyone seriously considers playing elemental in the first few patches of any expansion in pvp anymore.

- - - Updated - - -



Why would you not shock on cooldown if it's higher DPCT and thus higher DPS? Obviously making sure you don't mess up your FS uptime/cooldown. Is there anything that encourages stacking LS higher?

The way I see it, it's like this:
Shock >>> LB = you shock on cooldown
Shock < LB = you wait until Shock+LS stacks is higher DPCT than LB. After that point you're kinda free to shock at will. There's an incentive to stack to max stacks, because you will still not waste LS charges, but use them with less shocks (which individually are lower DPCT than LB)
Shock + max LS < LB. Unlikely.

As per this, the correct rotation for the pull (i believe) is precast UE, fire ele, pot and precast eb / lb then flameshock lust, lvb, ascendance,lvb, es, 2 or 3 lvb depending haste, es ,2 or 3 lvb, es, 2 or 3 lvb, es, 2 or 3 lvb, fs, normal rotation, using es whenever 2 stacks and won't hurt ur 2 stack fs reapp. It's really silly and basically removes fulm as a mechanic, which i personally find silly. Not to mention mastery numbers are looking even higher than expected, which makes me so mad...

- - - Updated - - -

Reason 1: You're a better player than a random mage.
Reason 2: Grace of Air. Mastery and haste are not provided by mages.

I can outdps and out mechanic my shaman which has been my main for years on a frost mage that i've played for a few weeks? So it wouldn't be a random mage, it's someone playing another class because frost is simple and has excellent tools for dealing with mechanics and a better healing cd.

Haste is provided by all rogues, all dps shamans all dps dks, and shadow priests, I feel like bringing a buff is not something that warrants a raid spot in 20 man environment.

Moonkins, blood dks, all paladins, and all shamans provide mastery, again, not likely you will not have it before even considering bringing an ele shaman.

[Algoma0]

Doesnt the T17 2 and/or 4 piece profit off of 12+ Fulm charges?
That would make most of the discussion obsolete because youd want to cast ES with 12+ Charges all the time. (I guess even with Fusion?)

edit: http://wod.wowhead.com/itemset=1241

[WarBringerPT]

As per this, the correct rotation for the pull (i believe) is precast UE, fire ele, pot and precast eb / lb then flameshock lust, lvb, ascendance,lvb, es, 2 or 3 lvb depending haste, es ,2 or 3 lvb, es, 2 or 3 lvb, es, 2 or 3 lvb, fs, normal rotation, using es whenever 2 stacks and won't hurt ur 2 stack fs reapp. It's really silly and basically removes fulm as a mechanic, which i personally find silly. Not to mention mastery numbers are looking even higher than expected, which makes me so mad...

- - - Updated - - -



I can outdps and out mechanic my shaman which has been my main for years on a frost mage that i've played for a few weeks? So it wouldn't be a random mage, it's someone playing another class because frost is simple and has excellent tools for dealing with mechanics and a better healing cd.

Haste is provided by all rogues, all dps shamans all dps dks, and shadow priests, I feel like bringing a buff is not something that warrants a raid spot in 20 man environment.

Moonkins, blood dks, all paladins, and all shamans provide mastery, again, not likely you will not have it before even considering bringing an ele shaman.

Don't forget, a single hunter can cover any single buff missing. So there's that.

[binkenstein]

Why would you not shock on cooldown if it's higher DPCT and thus higher DPS? Obviously making sure you don't mess up your FS uptime/cooldown. Is there anything that encourages stacking LS higher?

The way I see it, it's like this:
Shock >>> LB = you shock on cooldown
Shock < LB = you wait until Shock+LS stacks is higher DPCT than LB. After that point you're kinda free to shock at will. There's an incentive to stack to max stacks, because you will still not waste LS charges, but use them with less shocks (which individually are lower DPCT than LB)
Shock + max LS < LB. Unlikely.

Yes, but also no. You'll want as many LS charges per ES use, as 5-7 LB + ES is better than 3 LB + ES. It's the question of charge generation vs expenditure, and you won't generate fusion charges that quickly anyway. Plus...

Doesnt the T17 2 and/or 4 piece profit off of 12+ Fulm charges?
That would make most of the discussion obsolete because youd want to cast ES with 12+ Charges all the time. (I guess even with Fusion?)

edit: http://wod.wowhead.com/itemset=1241

this.

[Deleted]

I was looking at what was available on the PTR only. You are right both about Fusion and the tier bonus.

So it is wait to 12+ stacks, unless Blizz really messes up the numbers and sims prove the tier bonus to not be worth it. (As in, lava burst does shit damage, shocks do really good damage, off-set items are way above tier, so that - for example - using fulmination as soon as you have two fusion charges and the 2-set is about to run out is higher dps. That's getting far too theoretical though and based on blizz failing.) Let's just see how numbers turn out



Another thing that came to mind: Not putting LvB on cooldown and only using the EotE charges. It's probably not worth it (for ele?), but it's an idea I had while attacking the dummies.
Pro: you can use every eote proc for LvB as soon as it procs (using it on shocks just to burn it asap seems to be out of the question as mentioned by you guys -> 12+ stacks) as opposed to waiting for LvB to be off cooldown
Cons: lava surge loses a LOT of value

It would turn out to be a dps gain if it enables you to use more LvBs in the end. Anyone had the same thought?
/edit: gotta leave for work, just wanted to put it out there. It's prolly just a matter of looking at proc rates / rate of proc overlap.

[krogulek]

Strongly dislike new EotE, not only its completely useless during asce, the amount of wasted procs is just enormous, if u are unlucky u just wait 7/9 sec with the buff already on you and just observe how it overwrites itself over and over...