How to fix LFR

[Dawnshadow]

1. Stop the leeches from getting gear. If you're too good to put in a fair effort, you're too good to get LFR loot.

Note this doesn't mean people who are trying, but unskilled-- it's LFR, I don't care if you're the worst player in the game so long as you're making a good faith effort to contribute. This means the people who queue and either autoattack or just stand there, neither healing nor doing damage so as to not show up as a low DPS on the meters shouldn't count as being active for the kill. (No, I'm not sure how you would tell that for sure, or tell someone who legitimately died by accident early in a fight from someone who stood in the fire so they could be dead and tab out for five minutes instead of playing the game they're paying to play to earn their loot.)

If you don't qualify for loot you're not loot locked for the week, you just don't get loot for that attempt-- it's as if you never fought that boss (so people who had a legit AFK don't get stuck without loot.) Yes, I know most LFR groups can carry one or two AFKers, but I've been in several low percent wipes that would have been kills had those one or two people even been putting in a halfhearted effort. And really, is it fair to everyone else to demand they carry you because you're better than they are, despite also needing/wanting the gear?

2. Add boss mods to the base game for LFR only (with a UI menu option to turn it off for advanced players.) Don't expect that LFR players will know the fights or know that there are addons that will explain the fight as it happens, explicitly tell them what they need to be doing with pop-up notifications, maybe even super-obvious visuals on the field. Add the pacify effect to standing in bad (in addition to the damage) so meter-watching DPS move out of it. If a player dies to something avoidable, put text in the center of their screen explaining what killed them until they release or get rezzed (and hope they read.)

3. Monitor chat for 'toxic' keywords. (Anything caught by the profanity filter, 'scrub', 'noob,' 'huntard,' etc.) If someone uses profanity or overuses any of the other toxic keywords in /instance chat, their kick timer is immediately removed and they may be vote kicked out immediately (if properly initiated.) This does not and should not monitor private channels, a handmade party's chat, guild chat, etc.

This gets rid of leeches and toxic players, and makes sure new people know how the fight works. 90% of the problems in LFR gone.

[Deleted]

1. Stop the leeches from getting gear. If you're too good to put in a fair effort, you're too good to get LFR loot.

A better way is if an automated system would monitor your dps and if it's not at least the minimum for your ilvl you don't get loot (You get a debuff like the one you get in PvP for being inactive). If you get the debuff 2 tries in a row, or 2 fights in a row - your kick timer is completely reset. So no matter if the raid initiated a kick or two before, you can get kicked as well.

2. Add boss mods to the base game for LFR only (with a UI menu option to turn it off for advanced players.)

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand there's the dungeon journal and so many other sources of information that putting this in-game is just spoon-feeding. On the other hand it would eliminate any excuse for not knowing the tactic so if people fail repeatedly you can kick them with a clear conscience.

3. Monitor chat for 'toxic' keywords. (Anything caught by the profanity filter, 'scrub', 'noob,' 'huntard,' etc.)

I'm not a big fan of censorship, and people shouldn't be afraid to talk, even if it's bad talk. It depends on the context in which the words are said, a context which your system wouldn't know. "Lol I'm such a noob" - BAM your kick timer is reset. "That boss is such a scrub" "Lol...huntards..". There's a lot of harmless and funny things people can say that include these keywords without them being toxic. Simply remove the kick timer in LFR and LFD and change it so a MAJORITY of the votes count to a kick not all of the votes. This would prevent a couple of other baddies from saying "No" to the kick just to troll.

[Sierra85]

or just remove LFR and have flexi?

LFR is really being phased out in wod anyway.

[Amerissis]

1. Is the reason this won't work. You can't even decide who should get loot, how can an automated system? What would happen to the low ilevel healer amongst the mythic geared friends who can't heal anyone before they got them to full health? To just name one example...

[Deleted]

1. Is the reason this won't work. You can't even decide who should get loot, how can an automated system? What would happen to the low ilevel healer amongst the mythic geared friends who can't heal anyone before they got them to full health? To just name one example...

An automated system would work if it compared your healing with your ilvl - not with the other people in the raid. If you'd do the minimum healing for that ilvl you'd be fine. If you didn't you'd get a debuff that prevented you from getting loot.

Not alot of mythic (heroic) geared healers in LFRs. And there's always room to heal in a 25 man raid.

[Zagnut]

or just remove LFR and have flexi?

LFR is really being phased out in wod anyway.

Yeah look, I hate to tell you guys this, but you're over.

LFR will be in the game forever. Wildstar flopped. Hardcore exclusive MMO gaming is dead. This shit you have right now, where the majority raids LFR and a small minority whines on the forums for eternity about how LFR is totally going away any year now? That's as good as it gets now. That's as good as it will ever be for you again.

WoW is a decade old, the torrent of WoW clones in development has finally dried up, and it all went by without the hardcore raider's longed-for renaissance or revenge ever actually happening. The part where everyone in charge finally realizes that they've been SHEER FOOLS to stop spooning exclusive content to the noisy 5% never happened. It's never going to happen. It's over.

Nobody but you is surprised.

[fixx]

1. Stop the leeches from getting gear. If you're too good to put in a fair effort, you're too good to get LFR loot.

Because neither you nor Blizzard is qualified enough to make that judgement call between somebody leeching and somebody for example having medical condition that forces them to afk often or play with two buttons only your "ideas" are doomed to fail. Just accept it that in LFR there are people at various skill levels and stop trying to "fix" it by trying to make it something it's not meant for.

[Sansnom]

1. Stop the leeches from getting gear. If you're too good to put in a fair effort, you're too good to get LFR loot.

I think they should just make LFR share the same loot lockout. I would guess most of the higher geared raiders are only there to supplement their loot drop from the higher levels. If the loot lockout was shared, then there would be no reason for them to participated, unless they are helping, have some fun, or just like to grief others. It does happen.

An automated system may work by knowing the player and so should know what the player can do. If the player has cleared HC, then they should be doing a certain amount of DPS/HPS etc. But, and this a but, I have seen healers very low in the heal charts for some boss fights but when the the raid gets into trouble, their HPS shoots up. That is because these are playing intelligently. They are not interested in topping the meter. The raid does not need their heals, so they do not heal, but when it does, they step up. How will an automated system detects that?

[4umtroll]

Yeah look, I hate to tell you guys this, but you're over.

LFR will be in the game forever. Wildstar flopped. Hardcore exclusive MMO gaming is dead. This shit you have right now, where the majority raids LFR and a small minority whines on the forums for eternity about how LFR is totally going away any year now? That's as good as it gets now. That's as good as it will ever be for you again.

WoW is a decade old, the torrent of WoW clones in development has finally dried up, and it all went by without the hardcore raider's longed-for renaissance or revenge ever actually happening. The part where everyone in charge finally realizes that they've been SHEER FOOLS to stop spooning exclusive content to the noisy 5% never happened. It's never going to happen. It's over.

Nobody but you is surprised.

/end thread

[Jaylock]

Because neither you nor Blizzard is qualified enough to make that judgement call between somebody leeching and somebody for example having medical condition that forces them to afk often or play with two buttons only your "ideas" are doomed to fail. Just accept it that in LFR there are people at various skill levels and stop trying to "fix" it by trying to make it something it's not meant for.

Then should that person with a medical condition even be playing and hampering the play experience of 24 other people?

I dont think so.

[Deleted]

*LFR removed.
*casuals can now use the WoD in-game Oqueue for pug raiding.
*bads and retards can suck it!

[DeadmanWalking]

3. If you try to kick someone and it says they can't be kicked for 2 hours it is not really about them it is about you. It is badly worded but the gist of it is you have kicked too much and that is your timer which could actually be longer than 2 hours. At that point you have to convince someone else to kick them which is very easy to do in a 25 man group. "Player X is AFK, someone kick them!" is usually enough to start a kick.

They are not protected from kicking, they are protected from your kick because you are considered to kick too much and most likely some of those kicks are arbitrary.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah look, I hate to tell you guys this, but you're over.

LFR will be in the game forever. Wildstar flopped. Hardcore exclusive MMO gaming is dead. This shit you have right now, where the majority raids LFR and a small minority whines on the forums for eternity about how LFR is totally going away any year now? That's as good as it gets now. That's as good as it will ever be for you again.

WoW is a decade old, the torrent of WoW clones in development has finally dried up, and it all went by without the hardcore raider's longed-for renaissance or revenge ever actually happening. The part where everyone in charge finally realizes that they've been SHEER FOOLS to stop spooning exclusive content to the noisy 5% never happened. It's never going to happen. It's over.

Nobody but you is surprised.

This. So much this. LFR will stay in the game because it allows Blizzard to continue to drop 100% of resources into raid content for raiders while tossing a pale imitation to casuals so nothing like dungeons have to be made for them to keep them busy. Frankly the people that use LFR to experience raid content as either their only form of endgame or because they just want to see the raid content quickly and return to the game they really want to play are better off in LFR than in my raiding guild.
The real problem with LFR was that it gave gear that looked like higher difficulty raid gear and special snowflakes could not feel like people desired to be them if a simular looking suit was out there for less effort and that excuse has been removed from WoD which means now they just hate LFR on the general principle that they always hated it.

[Crushima]

Yeah look, I hate to tell you guys this, but you're over.

LFR will be in the game forever. Wildstar flopped. Hardcore exclusive MMO gaming is dead. This shit you have right now, where the majority raids LFR and a small minority whines on the forums for eternity about how LFR is totally going away any year now? That's as good as it gets now. That's as good as it will ever be for you again.

WoW is a decade old, the torrent of WoW clones in development has finally dried up, and it all went by without the hardcore raider's longed-for renaissance or revenge ever actually happening. The part where everyone in charge finally realizes that they've been SHEER FOOLS to stop spooning exclusive content to the noisy 5% never happened. It's never going to happen. It's over.

Nobody but you is surprised.

I don't care if LFR is in the game forever. I just hope it keeps dropping shitty loot like it will in WoD. No tier, no shiny nice trinkets. Basic, LFR gear, which anyone who targets you will be able to see. Perfectly fine with that.

[4umtroll]

I don't care if LFR is in the game forever. I just hope it keeps dropping shitty loot like it will in WoD. No tier, no shiny nice trinkets. Basic, LFR gear, which anyone who targets you will be able to see. Perfectly fine with that.

And for most of who don't want to put with the bs that's raiding that's fine. I'll see my storyline and do other things in the game besides raiding.

[ThePants999]

Yeah look, I hate to tell you guys this, but you're over.

LFR will be in the game forever. Wildstar flopped. Hardcore exclusive MMO gaming is dead. This shit you have right now, where the majority raids LFR and a small minority whines on the forums for eternity about how LFR is totally going away any year now? That's as good as it gets now. That's as good as it will ever be for you again.

WoW is a decade old, the torrent of WoW clones in development has finally dried up, and it all went by without the hardcore raider's longed-for renaissance or revenge ever actually happening. The part where everyone in charge finally realizes that they've been SHEER FOOLS to stop spooning exclusive content to the noisy 5% never happened. It's never going to happen. It's over.

Nobody but you is surprised.

What a fantastic post.

[Glayde]

Going in another direction to make LFR better, is to let the raidleader invite people bypassing the queue.

This allows people to have their friends join and help them finish off the wing.

[judgementofantonidas]

A better way is if an automated system would monitor your dps and if it's not at least the minimum for your ilvl you don't get loot (You get a debuff like the one you get in PvP for being inactive). If you get the debuff 2 tries in a row, or 2 fights in a row - your kick timer is completely reset. So no matter if the raid initiated a kick or two before, you can get kicked as well.



I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand there's the dungeon journal and so many other sources of information that putting this in-game is just spoon-feeding. On the other hand it would eliminate any excuse for not knowing the tactic so if people fail repeatedly you can kick them with a clear conscience.



I'm not a big fan of censorship, and people shouldn't be afraid to talk, even if it's bad talk. It depends on the context in which the words are said, a context which your system wouldn't know. "Lol I'm such a noob" - BAM your kick timer is reset. "That boss is such a scrub" "Lol...huntards..". There's a lot of harmless and funny things people can say that include these keywords without them being toxic. Simply remove the kick timer in LFR and LFD and change it so a MAJORITY of the votes count to a kick not all of the votes. This would prevent a couple of other baddies from saying "No" to the kick just to troll.

I agree with most of your response, however a push button explanation for the multitudes of entitled LF"R" participants that are just there for a free ride would help facilitate getting the pulls going and the dead weight kicked.

- - - Updated - - -

Going in another direction to make LFR better, is to let the raidleader invite people bypassing the queue.

This allows people to have their friends join and help them finish off the wing.

also a very good suggestion IMO

[fixx]

Then should that person with a medical condition even be playing and hampering the play experience of 24 other people?

I dont think so.

LFR is meant to be the equal opportunity version of raiding and the one piece of endgame content with no kid left behind. The sooner you and all other whiners understand that your and Blizzard's vision of what LFR should be are totally different the sooner you'll be happy and are able to move on.

Going in another direction to make LFR better, is to let the raidleader invite people bypassing the queue.

This allows people to have their friends join and help them finish off the wing.

In WoD LFR will scale down if there isnt enough people in group when boss is pulled. It might still fail if you have only one tank or no healers for example, but it tries to scale.

[judgementofantonidas]

I think they should just make LFR share the same loot lockout. I would guess most of the higher geared raiders are only there to supplement their loot drop from the higher levels. If the loot lockout was shared, then there would be no reason for them to participated, unless they are helping, have some fun, or just like to grief others. It does happen.

remove real raiders from LF"R" and the players who "need" or are only capable of it will no longer complete therefore making it even more of a waste of resources.

[twh]

or just remove LFR and have flexi?

LFR is really being phased out in wod anyway.

Another true statement from you, Mokoshne. LFR in WoD won't drop tier gear or epics. Basically crappy heroic blues (if even that good). So many, many people who get tier gear through LFR won't be bothered to do it. I know I won't.