Israeli soldiers from elite wire-tapping unit refuse to use 'extortion', 'blackmail"

[Mihalik]

Israeli soldiers from elite wire-tapping unit refuse to use 'extortion', 'blackmail' on Palestinians

More than 40 former soldiers and current army reservists have signed a letter refusing future service in the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) military intelligence wing, known as Unit 8200.

Unit 8200 is often compared to the United States National Security Agency. It uses sophisticated technology to monitor the lives of Palestinians, gathering information which is then used by Israel's military. It also carries out surveillance overseas.

But the group of soldiers who served in the unit has spoken out about the methods used and the toll they take on innocent civilians in the occupied Palestinian territories.

In witness testimonies, they detail the strategies used by Israel's elite intelligence corps.

I'm going to have to deal with the fact that people are going to wish for my death, that they're going to call me a traitor.
One of the signatories to the letter
These include gathering personal information about a person's sexual preference and using it to blackmail the individual into becoming a collaborator – a Palestinian who hands information to Israeli authorities.

"Any information that might enable extortion of an individual is considered relevant information," one soldier's statement said.

"Whether said individual is of a certain sexual orientation, cheating on his wife, or in need of treatment in Israel or the West Bank – he is a target for blackmail."

The veterans believe the surveillance and intelligence gathering by Unit 8200 is not necessary for Israeli national security.

"The notion of rights for Palestinians does not exist at all, not even as an idea to be disregarded," one witness statement said.

"Any Palestinian may be targeted and may suffer from sanctions, such as the denial of permits, harassment, extortion, or even direct physical injury."

In response to the letter, the IDF said in a statement to the ABC: "The Intelligence Corps has no record that the specific violations in the letter ever took place."

It said the unit's mission was to protect Israeli civilians.

"Those who serve in the unit undergo a thorough screening process and intense training, which is unmatched by any of the world's intelligence agencies," the statement said.

"Throughout the training, a special emphasis is placed on morality, ethics, and proper procedure. Soldiers and officers in the unit act in accordance with their training and remain under the strict supervision of high-ranking officers."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-1...inians/5741492
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...an-territories

The Israeli military never targets "civilians". Even some members of the Israeli military find the official treatment of the Palestinians appalling, and this is not the first time members of the Israeli military protest their orders and the treatment of Palestinians.

[Deleted]

Yeah, they're very brave for doing that. There are also quite a lot of different human rights investigations going on at the moment, about the conduct of Israel during the latest operation. Will be interesting to see the results. There has been evidence they used human shields (again) and deliberately targetted civilians, amongst other things.

The worse the treatment is for the Palestinians, the more people who actually witness it (soldiers mainly) will come out against it. There is only so much someone can stand before they say enough is enough. With the new land grab basically going ahead without any real international opinion, movements like this (from the inside) actually mean a huge amount.

[Deleted]

The Israeli military never targets "civilians".

Except, of course, every time they bomb a civilian building. They even send a smaller bomb in advance to warn the civilians of the incoming large bomb, which will completely destroy their home and leave them homeless.




Those are Palestinian homes the Israeli military is destroying. I think the delay between the "knock" and the actual bomb that flattens the building is around eight minutes or something like that? Well, you better hope the knock doesn't knock you unconscious and you get out in time.

It's funny in a sad way, because the fact that they are sending those knocks in advance is an admission of guilt and the fact that they know full well they're killing civilians.

[Independent voter]

What if a bomb goes off on an Israeli bus. Twelve dead and 24 wounded, many severely. The investigation shows that if he would've followed protocol, he could've prevented the attack?

I think that's why the NSA has gone as far as it has. Nobody wants to rein in the NSA, and then there's a major attack, and the investigation shows that if they would've left the NSA alone, the attack would've been prevented.

[Deleted]

What if a bomb goes off on an Israeli bus. Twelve dead and 24 wounded, many severely. The investigation shows that if he would've followed protocol, he could've prevented the attack?

I think that's why the NSA has gone as far as it has. Nobody wants to rein in the NSA, and then there's a major attack, and the investigation shows that if they would've left the NSA alone, the attack would've been prevented.

Read the articles. The information they gather is used to create civil unrest and prolong the military occupation. You know... the very things that would encourage more 'bombs going off on Israeli buses'. >.>

They allege that the “all-encompassing” intelligence the unit gathers on Palestinians – much of it concerning innocent people – is used for “political persecution” and to create divisions in Palestinian society... The signatories say, however, that a large part of their work was unrelated to Israel’s security or defence, but appeared designed to perpetuate the occupation by “infiltrating” and “controlling” all aspects of Palestinian life... Personnel were instructed to keep any damaging details of Palestinians’ lives they came across, including information on sexual preferences, infidelities, financial problems or family illnesses that could be “used to extort/blackmail the person and turn them into a collaborator”.

I watched a fairly long talk by a former IDF soldier who said things along a similar vein. They had undercover IDF soldiers inciting violence (throwing stones while at peaceful protests) giving the IDF soldiers at checkpoints an excuse to 'disperse' them. This isn't about stopping violence, it is about perpetuating it for political ideology.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/15/israeli-refuseniks-are-criminals-defence-minister

The more he speaks, the more he sounds like a lunatic.

[Mayhem]

What if a bomb goes off on an Israeli bus. Twelve dead and 24 wounded, many severely. The investigation shows that if he would've followed protocol, he could've prevented the attack?

I think that's why the NSA has gone as far as it has. Nobody wants to rein in the NSA, and then there's a major attack, and the investigation shows that if they would've left the NSA alone, the attack would've been prevented.

you know, you´re right, let´s stop trusting people, because of a minority that wants to harm people, let´s monitory the behaviour of everyone in the world, 24/7, then we´ll be able to prevent almost every crime

[Deleted]

What if a bomb goes off on an Israeli bus. Twelve dead and 24 wounded, many severely. The investigation shows that if he would've followed protocol, he could've prevented the attack?

I think that's why the NSA has gone as far as it has. Nobody wants to rein in the NSA, and then there's a major attack, and the investigation shows that if they would've left the NSA alone, the attack would've been prevented.

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

[Palemaster]

Yeah, they're very brave for doing that. There are also quite a lot of different human rights investigations going on at the moment, about the conduct of Israel during the latest operation. Will be interesting to see the results. There has been evidence they used human shields (again) and deliberately targetted civilians, amongst other things.

They are very brave indeed. They are so brave, that they have waited 3 years to complete their military service, which included hi-tech training and work experience that guarantees them a job after they're done with their service (they get a much higher priority than any university graduate when applying to a job), and only after they got a high paying job they developed a "conscience". Conscience is a synonym to money from left-wing extremists & European anti-Israeli groups.

These so called "brave people" are nothing but spoiled brats who got their training & experience for free from the government, got a high paying job and don't wish to contribute to the reserve army like any other Israeli civilian. They were just smart enough to get paid from left-wing groups while doing it.

As for "There has been evidence they used human shields (again) and deliberately targetted civilians, amongst other things", funny that those who has given said "evidence" are Hamas themselves, while they and the so called "Muslim extremists rights organizations" failed to answer to the claims of security experts and statisticians questions, such as: If Israel targeted civilians randomly and deliberately, how come the distribution of sampling of the population does not fit the distribution of sampling of the so called targeted civilians? In other words, if the population of Gaza contains X% men, Y% women & Z% children, assuming that the Israeli bombings are random and targeting civilians deliberately, there should be a distribution of X% men, Y% women & Z% children among the casualties.

This however, is not the case. There are way too few women & children hurt in such bombings and way more men to prove a pattern of a random targeting of civilians, but we cannot let facts confuse Muslim extremists rights organizations.

[Deleted]

Oh well. Hopefully ISIS will go to Israel via Syria and end Israel before they're brought down.

[Jaxi]

Oh well. Hopefully ISIS will go to Israel via Syria and end Israel before they're brought down.

So few people know of Israel's military accomplishments it seems. This is an extremely unlikely scenario.

[Deleted]

They are very brave indeed. They are so brave, that they have waited 3 years to complete their military service, which included hi-tech training and work experience that guarantees them a job after they're done with their service (they get a much higher priority than any university graduate when applying to a job), and only after they got a high paying job they developed a "conscience". Conscience is a synonym to money from left-wing extremists & European anti-Israeli groups.

These so called "brave people" are nothing but spoiled brats who got their training & experience for free from the government, got a high paying job and don't wish to contribute to the reserve army like any other Israeli civilian. They were just smart enough to get paid from left-wing groups while doing it.

If you say so. Given the backlash against what they've done, and against other IDF soldiers who've come out against Israel's military policies, I say they're brave. You can be cyncical if you want, and ignore what they're actually protesting about. I won't be.

As for "There has been evidence they used human shields (again) and deliberately targetted civilians, amongst other things", funny that those who has given said "evidence" are Hamas themselves, while they and the so called "Muslim extremists rights organizations" failed to answer to the claims of security experts and statisticians questions, such as: If Israel targeted civilians randomly and deliberately, how come the distribution of sampling of the population does not fit the distribution of sampling of the so called targeted civilians? In other words, if the population of Gaza contains X% men, Y% women & Z% children, assuming that the Israeli bombings are random and targeting civilians deliberately, there should be a distribution of X% men, Y% women & Z% children among the casualties.

This however, is not the case. There are way too few women & children hurt in such bombings and way more men to prove a pattern of a random targeting of civilians, but we cannot let facts confuse Muslim extremists rights organizations.

Do you know what investigation are? They investigate things... To find the truth... If it's ok by you, I'll go ahead and wait for the results of human rights investigations, UN investigations, and to a lesser to degree, the IDF's own investigations (yeah, not really expecting anything here) to make up my mind. You know, instead of listening to someone who bleats 'muslim extreamist rights organsations'. I don't even... >.>

[Hyve]

The problem is that both sides are equally bad as each other.

While targeting civilians is appalling, Hamas hide behind said civilians. They're not out in the open, or in the fields, they're in schools, shops and homes. Even if Hamas poses little threat, Isreal (or any nation for that matter) isn't going to stand by and let them be shot at and refuse to retaliate simply because they're hiding in a school.

The problem here is that Isreal resorts to immediate missile fire for almost everything. Rather then sending in targeted strikes, or even military units to sweep the area, they generally speaking, bomb the location and are done with it.

I'm not in any way condoning what Isreal do, but I think it's also disgusting that people place the blame solely on Isreal and not on Hamas for the manner at which they conduct their war. If I was Isreal, I'd do my best to avoid civilian casualties, but I'm not about to let my people be bombed by the enemy and let them get away with it simply because they're in someones shop.

Like many areas around and in the Middle East, the main driver of this conflict is Religion and until there is a consensus of peace between the two faiths, the two nations will always be at war.

Side Note: I'm not too sure why, but back in 1947 (?) the United Nations assigned vast areas of land to Isreal. Why is this? What prompted such a sudden and vast amount of land to be handed over to Isreal? What prompted them to split Palestine in two and cause this conflict?

[Deleted]

Conscience is a synonym to money from left-wing extremists & European anti-Israeli groups.

They were just smart enough to get paid from left-wing groups while doing it.

Got ya, its the left fault for wanting less violence and more peace in the world.

bombings are random and targeting civilians deliberately

There are way too few women & children hurt

Dude, seriously? I can't even...

[DEATHETERNAL]

A country is spying on an enemy that launches rockets and mortars randomly in a country hoping to kill anyone possible? Shocker.

[Hyve]

I'll also add, a military can't run when people question orders. It's obviously in some cases that thing like that need to happen, sometimes the Officers go to far, but when military personel can call into question orders, they're no longer orders, they're requests and the military falls apart.

Because of that, you can expect to see these people dealt with very harshly.

[Wildtree]

What if a bomb goes off on an Israeli bus. Twelve dead and 24 wounded, many severely. The investigation shows that if he would've followed protocol, he could've prevented the attack?

I think that's why the NSA has gone as far as it has. Nobody wants to rein in the NSA, and then there's a major attack, and the investigation shows that if they would've left the NSA alone, the attack would've been prevented.

Except, this is in almost every single case no more than pure speculation....
Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda..... That's not how you handle official matters, let alone threats to people's life. That's not even how you handle your grocery shopping list.

[Mayhem]

I'll also add, a military can't run when people question orders. It's obviously in some cases that thing like that need to happen, sometimes the Officers go to far, but when military personel can call into question orders, they're no longer orders, they're requests and the military falls apart.

Because of that, you can expect to see these people dealt with very harshly.

it´s an obligation for everyone in the military to question orders

[Deleted]

The problem is that both sides are equally bad as each other.

While targeting civilians is appalling, Hamas hide behind said civilians. They're not out in the open, or in the fields, they're in schools, shops and homes. Even if Hamas poses little threat, Isreal (or any nation for that matter) isn't going to stand by and let them be shot at and refuse to retaliate simply because they're hiding in a school.

Most countries aren't occupying and imprisoning a load of people. But even then, countries in the past have taken the diplomatic route instead of resorting to retaliatory violence, even when under more threat than Israel currently is/was.

I'm not in any way condoning what Isreal do, but I think it's also disgusting that people place the blame solely on Isreal and not on Hamas for the manner at which they conduct their war. If I was Isreal, I'd do my best to avoid civilian casualties, but I'm not about to let my people be bombed by the enemy and let them get away with it simply because they're in someones shop.

People don't really do that. I can understand why desperate people resort to violence, since it's happened the world over throughout history, but that doesn't mean I condone it. The point people generally make is Israel has the capacity to end it through diplomacy. The Palestinians are basically stuck. They go with Hamas and violence and death ensues. They go with Abbas, and land gets taken from them constantly with their farmland & homes being stolen/bulldozed in the process. It's lose-lose for them until Israel takes the first step.

Like many areas around and in the Middle East, the main driver of this conflict is Religion and until there is a consensus of peace between the two faiths, the two nations will always be at war.

Religion isn't the main driver in this conflict, desperation is. Religion is just a banner to get people behind. Jewish people, Muslim people and Christian people lived side by side before all of this in that area of the world. Even in Iraq you see huge amounts of different religious sects living together, it's just when desperation gets put in the mix that violence happens. You'd even find those venturing off to Jihad actually have little grasp of the religion they preach. One of the recent ISIS Jihadis was found to have ordered 'Islam for dummies' before joining.

Side Note: I'm not too sure why, but back in 1947 (?) the United Nations assigned vast areas of land to Isreal. Why is this? What prompted such a sudden and vast amount of land to be handed over to Isreal? What prompted them to split Palestine in two and cause this conflict?

In the 1800s there was a fairly large Zioninst movement to go and find a new homeland. They were offered different ones by the British (there was a fair amount of anti-semitism at the time in Europe) but decided on British controlled Palestine. Over time more and more people settled there, and the people already living there began to get shoved out. There was also hostility against the British, violence that helped force them out (led by the founder of the Likud party iirc). The UN split the land to ease the transition of the British leaving & help ease the tension between the two nationlist movements (Arab and Jewish). It didn't work, obviously :P

[Hyve]

it´s an obligation for everyone in the military to question orders

There is a fine line, and it's something no military has ever been able to get 100% right.

If you allow all orders to be questioned, people to demand more information, suddenly they're not orders. Suddenly anything and everything can be called into question, and the very foundations of the military fall apart.

Like it or not, you're there to execute orders and do your job. If something comes along like; "Shot dead the 100 children" then of course, call that into question, refuse.

[Wildtree]

Side Note: I'm not too sure why, but back in 1947 (?) the United Nations assigned vast areas of land to Isreal. Why is this? What prompted such a sudden and vast amount of land to be handed over to Isreal? What prompted them to split Palestine in two and cause this conflict?

GUILT!!!!

The Holocaust was avoidable.
Truth of the matter is, that every country involved turned a blind eye on it.
Fact is, how the Nazis have targeted the Jews already before they've got elected. In the 1928 elections the Nazis didn't get more than some 7% because of their heavy anti Jew campaigning. That did not fly at all with the German population. They've learned from that mistake, changed the program, and at the same time established their street units later known as the SS. Those made sure that the people put their X in the right spot. Still, they've only got 42% votes when they got in power. Which means the World knew very well that there will be bleak times now for the Jews. In the beginning the Nazis "just" wanted to kick them out of the country. Unload them.. And no one wanted to take them. No one was willing, or able to take in millions of people. That's essentially how the heinous plan came to be, how to rid themselves of the problem, and the holocaust began...
This is not to put the blame on others now. This is only to show why the country Israel came to be in 1947 (aside from the fact that Israeli have always lived in that region for over 2000 yrs, just not those people) , and that no one was really totally blameless either.