Looking for feedback on my guild's warlocks

[nobeard]

I am far more concerned about your fury warriors.

[Sepelio]

What? Are you doing anything special? For me a single chaos bolt does about twice the damage of a FnB incinerate on three targets and has a 50% longer cast time, as long as incinerate isn't at the gcd-cap.

Just to be sure, I tested that on the three Raiders Training Dummies in Orgrimmar. Only Buffs were Dark Intent and Go:Sac, ilvl equipped is 587, in case something procced I removed the buff.
Results were consistent:
- Chaos Bolt: 953k damage, 829k being the direct damage component.
- FnB Incinerate: 461k damage, consisting of one 235k crit and two 112k hits
That was pretty consistent over five iterations. I have 25% crit unbuffed, so incinerate damage should be lower on average.

What are you doing to make a FnB incinerate hit three targets for almost 2 million damage without external buffs? Assuming that by "DPE" you mean "Damage per execute", which should be the total damage caused by one cast.

edit: That's with 51,417 Spell Power and 21929 Mastery Rating.

My fault for initial poor phrasing and an exaggeration.

They don't hit for nearly 2 million damage, because of the increased push times the first intermission is with no cooldowns/procs up short of being lucky with Toxic totem.

Its the difference of basically.

We'll assume it takes 8 seconds to reach the shadowburn point as I believe thats fairly close to what it is at this point in raiding.

Chaos bolt with backdraft 1.61 cast time, 562500dps. Without 2.3 cast time, 391304dps. Average CB hit 900k
Incinerate with backdraft 1.07 cast time, 218691dps. Without 1.53 cast time 152941dps. Value of 180k with 30% crit rate. Average incinerate hit 234k
FnB(3 target) incinerate with backdraft 1.07 cast time, 546728dps. Without 1.53 cast time 382352dps. Value of 150k with 30% crit rate. Average FnB incinerate hit 195k

So the chaos bolt spamming method provided you're using 4 full embers and not pooling one for shadowburning will be 4.5-5m damage/7.82s = roughly 607416 dps. At which point you'll be left without enough embers to shadowburn, so should they be in range for it at this point, you'll still be casting filler incinerates.

The FnB method we'll base the time breaks on it as close to the chaos bolt method as possible. So one havoc'd chaos bolt + 5 FnB Incinerates(3 havoc'd). Will equate to roughly 4.8-5m/7.88s = roughly 621827 dps. 1.8-2m from initial havoc'd CB, the remainder from the 15 fnb incinerates which will be non critting for 150k.

Short of great RNG doing both methods like that will leave you without an ember for shadowburning.

Adjust it to 3 chaos bolts and 4 FnB incinerates to guarantee shadowburn potential and it looks like

Chaos bolt - 3 CB's(2 Backdrafted 1 havoc'd) + 2 hardcasted incinerates. 4-4.4m/8.58s = 489510 dps.
FnB - 1 CB(Backdrafted and havoc'd) + 4 FnB incinerates + 1 regular incinerate. 4.3-4.5m/7.88s = 558365 dps.

I exaggerated quite heavily in initial post, hadn't looked at it properly in a while so I apologise for that.

I did the incerate values without factoring in the crit damage bonus of bindings, but that would only serve to support the FnB build over the Chaos bolt.

If it takes longer than this to reach the shadowburn phase, the situation will still remain the same with the FnB casting method coming out stronger, just the overall dps will lower naturally.

[Sonycboom]

hi hovy

[Gihelle]

I suspect you are going to run into troubles in phase 3 with your use of Heroism at the 4 min mark

We lust right after the first MC and when people are on their game (end of expansion burnout and all + carries do make a difference) we have no issues getting out of P3 before the second Empowered Whirl.

[Deleted]

Your locks are just bad. Let them check sparkuggz his forum because yes they are bad...

[Fuiking]

His entire guild's DPS seems somewhat low to me - only 4 people above 400k...

From my experience much of the Destro Lock's DPS on Garrosh is provided by aoe in P1 and abusing Havoc/SB during P2, both of which your warlocks aren't doing a lot of. When comparing P2, where she can abuse those mechanics, she's actually not doing bad at all.

She also seemed dead for most of P4 in those logs you showed us. Since your P4 lasted quite a while, that definitely makes a difference.

But yeah, besides those, she definitely isn't casting as much as she should - and somehow, holding onto a lot of Backdraft procs.

Checking it I did discover a reason why they dont have that much damage. They seem to be on Engineer duty. The most annoying duty in the world. Ever. Personal opinion.

Anyway only two warlocks in the raid? wow... Had 6-7 at one point

[Toastiekins]

Checking it I did discover a reason why they dont have that much damage. They seem to be on Engineer duty. The most annoying duty in the world. Ever. Personal opinion.

Anyway only two warlocks in the raid? wow... Had 6-7 at one point

Engineer duty is so easy as a warlock, I don't get why people complain so much about it. Same with belts on Siegecrafter. Love doing both because it makes the encounter dead. Being on Engineers is hardly a reason for them to be so low on damage, as engineers happen once or twice a fight for less than 10 seconds. You don't have much downtime on the boss, and the engineers are a source of dps anyway. When the fight is over 9 minutes long, 10-20s of less bosstime is absolutely miniscule.

[Baconeggcheese]

Engineer duty is so easy as a warlock, I don't get why people complain so much about it. Same with belts on Siegecrafter.

The reason people complain about both of those is not because warlocks can't do them well, but because it is a poor allocation of resources.

Warlocks are more beneficial to the raid aoeing adds on siegecrafter or garrosh at the start, they are more efficient at aoeing the adds and the boss than other classes. To use them for these other jobs works, but it is not the best use for the class.

To think it is ok to use a warlock to do either of those jobs is to think it is OK to use your raid sub-optimally.

[Toastiekins]

The reason people complain about both of those is not because warlocks can't do them well, but because it is a poor allocation of resources.

Warlocks are more beneficial to the raid aoeing adds on siegecrafter or garrosh at the start, they are more efficient at aoeing the adds and the boss than other classes. To use them for these other jobs works, but it is not the best use for the class.

To think it is ok to use a warlock to do either of those jobs is to think it is OK to use your raid sub-optimally.

The adds on 10H die before I even run out to the engineer. On 25H they last a few seconds longer but are bladestormed to death before the wolf rider is even spawned. Both 10 and 25 groups don't get the second engineer, and are both close to not getting the second set of warbringers. At this point in gear and progression, it's splitting hairs who goes out to kill the engineer.

I will agree with you about the belts though, I'm doing belts due to a melee heavy comp (and the fact that we don't trust the melee to do them) on 10 man and spend the entire fight up killing weapons. With me and our hunter up there boss damage suffers, and we end up with 5m+ kill times on Siegecrafter.

[Baconeggcheese]

The adds on 10H die before I even run out to the engineer. On 25H they last a few seconds longer but are bladestormed to death before the wolf rider is even spawned. Both 10 and 25 groups don't get the second engineer, and are both close to not getting the second set of warbringers. At this point in gear and progression, it's splitting hairs who goes out to kill the engineer.

How guilds like my own do it is not indicative of how a guild still progressing on the fight does it though. I don't advise people like they're in a guild where everyone is 588 ilvl in near BiS and demolishing things with 2 buyers in the group, I advise them as if they are doing progression.

On progression it would be a disservice to the group to use warlocks on engineers, when you could use them to aoe the packs and everyone can burn the boss as hard as they can to get out of the phase asap.

*This is from a 25 perspective, I haven't done 10 man in quite some time.

I will agree with you about the belts though, I'm doing belts due to a melee heavy comp (and the fact that we don't trust the melee to do them) on 10 man and spend the entire fight up killing weapons. With me and our hunter up there boss damage suffers, and we end up with 5m+ kill times on Siegecrafter.

That's funny, we've always sent almost entirely melee to do it.