Consolidated list of PvE Rogue issues going into WoD

[Geckoo]

Assassination plays well enough but the spec is pretty simple. And the truth is the difference between a good assassination rogue and bad assassination rogue normally is a matter of dealing with encounters rather than handling the spec.

In my opinion the intent behind assassination is that the spec is easy to play, but hard to master. The problem is that with MoP's changes the difference between a good player and a bad player was drastically reduced, not even in 5.0 envenom uptime had as much importance as it used to have during cata for example. Anticipation mostly made CP management non existant & in the later patches the stat balance giving more importance to haste (aka energy regeneration) lowered the skill cap even more, since there is not too much thought about energy either.

[Ahdehl]

You still have a lot to learn.

Ya, I'm pretty new to the whole Rogue class... lol

Obviously there is pooling/cd-alignment/etc, but the fact remains that for entire fight we hit Mutilate/Dispatch into Rupture/Envenom. It's a joke of a rotation and class-design. The best Rogue in the world will achieve 97-98% of the max dps possible for the spec, while a random trade-chat Rogue will probably hit around 90%. There is very little room to stand out as an individual Rogue now.

[Kael]

What about energy pooling ? What about only using Mutilate and Dispatch when the Envenom buff is up ? What about maximizing the Envenom and Rupture uptimes ? Rupture uptime is below 90% ? Envenom buff uptime is below 70% ? You still have a lot to learn. Of course, buff uptimes highly depend of your gear level and on the kind of fight but this gives an idea.

Mutilate and dispatch under envenom are implied by energy pooling. Rupture and envenom uptime are implied by hitting the right button (rupture or envenom) and energy pooling - these are the uptimes you mention as three separate listings. It really boils down to Mut/dispatch, maintain rup, pool before envenom (very, VERY slight exceptions around trinkets and such). If you have low rupture uptime, low envenom uptime, or are using mut and dispatch outside envenom on a regular basis, you're failing one of these 3 simple rules.

[Deleted]

In my opinion the intent behind assassination is that the spec is easy to play, but hard to master. The problem is that with MoP's changes the difference between a good player and a bad player was drastically reduced, not even in 5.0 envenom uptime had as much importance as it used to have during cata for example. Anticipation mostly made CP management non existant & in the later patches the stat balance giving more importance to haste (aka energy regeneration) lowered the skill cap even more, since there is not too much thought about energy either.

I fully agree with you. Anticipation has maybe reduced the CP management too much for Assassination.
Besides, I do not see combat as a more difficult spec to play. Subtlety is another challenge.

[Sesshou]

What about energy pooling ? What about only using Mutilate and Dispatch when the Envenom buff is up ?

That is really the same thing. You do the first in order to do the second. On live that also hardly matters. Yeah you absolutely should do it, but if you're claiming that as the compelling mechanic for assassination, don't you think the returns shouldn't just be a marginal gain? They are increasing the benefits of pooling, but I have no idea how large the difference will be between pooling and spamming.

Ya, I'm pretty new to the whole Rogue class... lol

Don't worry, everyone was new at some point. Maybe you could ask one of the top raiding rogues for tips... oh... Well played.

[pentavelant]

Ya, I'm pretty new to the whole Rogue class... lol

Obviously there is pooling/cd-alignment/etc, but the fact remains that for entire fight we hit Mutilate/Dispatch into Rupture/Envenom. It's a joke of a rotation and class-design. The best Rogue in the world will achieve 97-98% of the max dps possible for the spec, while a random trade-chat Rogue will probably hit around 90%. There is very little room to stand out as an individual Rogue now.

And they say combat is faceroll. I highly doubt anyone of the devs has ever played a rogue. at this point i dont expect any changes until 6.1 or further perhaps. It's pretty sad that we get to go live into new xpac with the same old issue's. 5 years of this almost makes me want to reroll

[Artorius]

I fully agree with you. Anticipation has maybe reduced the CP management too much for Assassination.
Besides, I do not see combat as a more difficult spec to play. Subtlety is another challenge.

Combat has a wider learning curve than sub atm.

It's quite simple to understand the very basics, however, when you perceive that every button you hit will change another button, things start to get tricky.

When should you open with shallow ks or imediate ks? When should you keep farming cps after 5 with anticipation, when should you use KS inside adrenaline rush, when should you reapply SnD if you have the time to go further but you'll have a better insight the next finisher gcd... When?

It has way too much decisions, and the fact that you can't plan yourself precisely (restless blades) will make it very hard to get a "perfect" parse.

For example, a single button you miss-pressed during the fight before can make your KS come out of CD the second your deep insight drops, it's a 3s difference that made this ks 30% weaker.

You're not playing the moments (X procced, then press it!!!), you have to be playing the entire fight since the start...

[Spazzodin]

Mutilate:
Combat:
Sub:

[Deleted]

Combat:

Ruthlessness cp procs are considered a hostile action and will engage enemy npcs into combat. For example: use mark for death on a mob, then use slice and dice while having targeted the mob. You will pull it.
This bug has been acknowledged by the Blizzard Customer Support on wowhead on 02/18 and has since not been fixed.

General

Anticipation cannot handle some CP generation mechanics. Premediation for example will never trigger Anticipation stacks.

Also bad interaction between Anticipation and Ruthlessness and soon to come new set bonuses which will grant 5 cps.

[Beoren]

Mutilate and dispatch under envenom are implied by energy pooling. Rupture and envenom uptime are implied by hitting the right button (rupture or envenom) and energy pooling - these are the uptimes you mention as three separate listings. It really boils down to Mut/dispatch, maintain rup, pool before envenom (very, VERY slight exceptions around trinkets and such). If you have low rupture uptime, low envenom uptime, or are using mut and dispatch outside envenom on a regular basis, you're failing one of these 3 simple rules.

How much energy do i need to pool b4 hitting envenom? also does applying Rupture on more targets worth it? if yes what is the magic number of the targets for rupture?

[Kael]

How much energy do i need to pool b4 hitting envenom? also does applying Rupture on more targets worth it? if yes what is the magic number of the targets for rupture?

"Don't cap," yes for multi-target, potentially for single target (someone would have to rerun the sim for it for WoD) - re: answer 2.

As Nihna has done above, though, we should redirect this discussion to actual issues with our specs for feedback that might see action before beta ends.

[shadowboy]

Combat:

Ruthlessness cp procs are considered a hostile action and will engage enemy npcs into combat. For example: use mark for death on a mob, then use slice and dice while having targeted the mob. You will pull it.
This bug has been acknowledged by the Blizzard Customer Support on wowhead on 02/18 and has since not been fixed.

It's actually not doing that on the beta anymore.