Is this intended or not?

[Zantos]

So I was on my rogue and I noticed that a lower combo point rupture could override a higher combo point rupture. So if you use a 5 combo point rupture and immediately use a 1 combo point rupture, it will over ride and you will lose those four combo points. I know they had it so a higher damage version couldn't override a lower damage version. So I gotta wander, is this intended?

I did submit a suggestion to have it fixed in game. Just asking here too in the off chance someone can or wants to bring it up to them on the official forums since I can't.

[Dendalaus]

It used to not let you. Unfortunately this meant you couldn't overwrite your 1 second remaining rupture with a full rupture if it was a smaller. There was enough people that decided it would be better the way it is now.

[Sesshou]

I think they started letting you do that a while ago because the inability to overwrite a higher damage rupture meant you had to let it fully drop and couldn't refresh it if you happen to put up the first one with a proc.

[Zantos]

I think they started letting you do that a while ago because the inability to overwrite a higher damage rupture meant you had to let it fully drop and couldn't refresh it if you happen to put up the first one with a proc.

Are they going to let this remain though considering that that is no longer a thing? I mean, snap shooting is gone so that is no longer a possibility that you will be unable to refresh rupture due to a higher damage one being on.

[Arkuri]

Are they going to let this remain though considering that that is no longer a thing? I mean, snap shooting is gone so that is no longer a possibility that you will be unable to refresh rupture due to a higher damage one being on.

The wait it is setup, it's dynamic. The lower ranked Rupture should be only replacing the higher ranked one when it unmodified duration ends. The opposite is true, with higher ranked ruptures overlapping lower ranked ones: They will out-right "upgrade" it immediately.

[Zantos]

The wait it is setup, it's dynamic. The lower ranked Rupture should be only replacing the higher ranked one when it unmodified duration ends. The opposite is true, with higher ranked ruptures overlapping lower ranked ones: They will out-right "upgrade" it immediately.

Im sorry what? By unmodified do you mean when its not increased in strength from like a flask? Because they should all flat out be unmodified now since a proc from like a trinket wont increase its damage anymore.

[Arkuri]

Im sorry what? By unmodified do you mean when its not increased in strength from like a flask? Because they should all flat out be unmodified now since a proc from like a trinket wont increase its damage anymore.

Sorry. Let me try to clear that up.

Rupture A was applied to the target with 5 combo points.
Rupture A is set to expire in 5 seconds.
Player applies Rupture B with 2 combo points.
Rupture B damage will not be applied until Rupture A has finished it's duration.
5 seconds have past, Rupture B will now be doing it's damage as applied by it's 2 combo point cost.
Rupture B will expire in 3 seconds.
Player builds up 5 combo points.
Player uses Rupture with 5 combo points.
Rupture C overwrites Rupture B immediately; Restoring it's fulls duration, and upgrading it's damage to the match value of 5 combo points.

[Sesshou]

Are they going to let this remain though considering that that is no longer a thing? I mean, snap shooting is gone so that is no longer a possibility that you will be unable to refresh rupture due to a higher damage one being on.

They probably need to leave it so long as sub needs a rupture/CT for its enormous damage bonus.

[Arkuri]

However, DoT's / HoT's are set to change with Draenor to work differently than they do now on Live.

Partial ticks will apply partial effect
This part of the change is pretty substantial in and of itself. It essentially removes haste breakpoints from the game. For those that are not clear on how Haste functions with both HOTs and DOTs in the game currently a simplified explanation is as follows:

The HOT Rejuvenation by default heals X health every 3 seconds for 12 seconds.
This would mean 4 ticks by default. One at 3,6,9, and 12 seconds.
Assuming an X value of 5,000 healing per tick that is 20,000 healing.
By getting to 12.5% Haste you would increase the number of ticks to 4.50001 and the game would round up to 5 ticks.
This would grant a total of 25,000 health over the same 12 seconds, vastly increasing your healing output (or damage in the case of DOTs).
You can find more detail on the current mechanic here: Haste Explained: How it affects HOTs and DOTs.

It is easy to see though, that hitting the point where you get an extra tick is a huge benefit. However, if you stacked Haste and fell a single point below that break point, it was a complete waste of stats.

This made it important for all players that had HOTs and DOTs to learn the haste breakpoints and just hit them but not pass them. IT became a constant juggling point, hit a breakpoint, see if you can reach the next one, if so go for it, if not change any excess haste to another useful stat. The meant that for most players there were 2 or 3 key Haste numbers to aim for and otherwise ignore it. It also meant that players that did not know about the haste breakpoints could loose out significantly in healing or damage output.

With the new system being applied, Blizzard will be putting the ability into the game to constantly evaluate how much of a tick is remaining and add a proportional effect to the last tick. This means that given the same example as above, by reaching enough haste to hit the old 12.5% breakpoint for Rejuvenation you would have 0.50001 of a tick remaining. Therefore the 4th tick would heal for the normal example value of 5,000 health at roughly 10.5 seconds, and then a 5th and last tick would occur at the 12 second mark that would only heal for an additional 2,501 health that represents the remaining 0.50001 of a tick.

Essentially, what this means is that Haste breakpoints will become a thing of the past. Haste will scale smoothly for HOTs and DOTs no matter the value.

Refreshing Periodic Effects
The last part of the shakeup to HOTs and DOTs is a change to managing refreshing them. Currently in World of Warcraft, refreshing your HOTs and DOTs at the proper time for maximum effect and mana efficiency can be a little bit of a pain. When you refresh a HOT of DOT effect the refresh will not start until after the next tick of the previously applied effect applies. This means that if you refresh them at any point previous to between the second last and last tick you lose efficiency, as any extra remaining ticks are lost.

To make it clear let’s use a very simple example assuming you have a DOT that deals 1,000 damage every tick for 5 ticks each 2 seconds apart and the ability costs 5% mana.

If you refresh it between the 4th and 5th tick of the previously applied casting of it you will end up dealing 10,000 damage for a total of 10% mana over 20 seconds.
If you refresh it between the 3rd and 4th tick of the previously applied casting of it you will end up dealing only 9,000 damage for the same 10% mana over 18 second.
If you refresh it between the 2nd and 3rd tick of the previously applied casting of it you will end up dealing only 8,000 damage for the same 10% mana over 16 second.
As you can see, you lose efficiency and you lose HOT or DOT uptime as you will need to re-apply more often, costing more mana.

Warlocks have a passive that allows them to refresh anytime in the last 50% of a DOTs time and it would keep the remaining time on the refresh. This meant a 10 second DOT could be refreshed at the 5 second mark, and the new DOT would have 15 second duration instead of 10. This made keeping DOTS active at best effect was much simpler for a Warlock.

Blizzard will be making the same type of refresh mechanic that is available for Warlocks available for all HOT and DOT effects, just on a smaller scale. The new mechanic is that you can refresh them anywhere in the last 30% of the normal duration and keep the initial full effect. This means your new application could be up to 130% duration of normal.


-- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/134...riodic_effects

[Zantos]

Sorry. Let me try to clear that up.

Rupture A was applied to the target with 5 combo points.
Rupture A is set to expire in 5 seconds.
Player applies Rupture B with 2 combo points.
Rupture B damage will not be applied until Rupture A has finished it's duration.
5 seconds have past, Rupture B will now be doing it's damage as applied by it's 2 combo point cost.
Rupture B will expire in 3 seconds.
Player builds up 5 combo points.
Player uses Rupture with 5 combo points.
Rupture C overwrites Rupture B immediately; Restoring it's fulls duration, and upgrading it's damage to the match value of 5 combo points.

Why would you want to use 2 combo points? I have heard 4 is the min. I understand that explanation fully. However, this is what I experienced and reproduced.

Apply rupture A with 5 combo points
1 combo point remains thanks to anticipation
Hit rupture again by accident, consuming that 1 remaining combo point
So now you have a 1 combo point rupture with only 8seconds instead of a 5combo point rupture with 28seconds.

It mostly happened since I rapidly hit rupture to ensure it was applied, but I had extra combo points thanks to Anticipation. I am wanting this to not happen. What I want to happen is this:
Apply rupture A with 5 combo points
Rupture A has 5 seconds left
Apply rupture B with 5 combo points
Rupture B is now immediately active, refreshing ruptures duration to 28seconds.

I also just read your final post. So that means that if I reapply rupture with 5seconds left, with a 5combo point rupture, it would be 33 seconds instead of 28?

While that would help in keeping it active, my whole problem is scenario A. The fact that a 1 combo point rupture can completely override a 5second combo point rupture. Thus you lose 20seconds, the energy to build up the 5 combo points, a finisher, And 5 combo points. This is what I want corrected. not being able to override a longer version with a shorter version that does not add time. Example

I want to not override a 28second rupture with a 8 second rupture until 7 or fewer seconds of the current rupture remains.

- - - Updated - - -

They probably need to leave it so long as sub needs a rupture/CT for its enormous damage bonus.

Except they wont be getting a damage bonus for long if their 28seconds can be immediately canceled out because of anticipation and hitting the button twice. Leaving them with a 8second rupture instead of a 28second rupture/

[Arkuri]

In your particular case, I'm going to lean towards the side of error and call it an oversight on Blizzard's part on how the priority was placed in.
This may very well be wrong
But I wouldn't put too much thought into it though, seeing as it's a fairly specific situation, and one that can be fixed by the player without the needed fix of the game in a patch or a hotfix seeing as all of this is going to change in a month.

I was just giving an example, I'm fully aware it's extremely bad practice. xD

[Zantos]

In your particular case, I'm going to lean towards the side of error and call it an oversight on Blizzard's part on how the priority was placed in.
This may very well be wrong
But I wouldn't put too much thought into it though, seeing as it's a fairly specific situation, and one that can be fixed by the player without the needed fix of the game in a patch or a hotfix seeing as all of this is going to change in a month.

I was just giving an example, I'm fully aware it's extremely bad practice. xD

It can be fixed by the player, but its a very annoying thing that needs to be corrected by blizzard. I mean, this was the case before with dot snapshotting and the ability to override a stronger version with a weaker version. That too could be fixed by the player, but it caused enough issues that blizzard stepped in.

The case I presented is repeatable. I was on a dummy. It'll happen quite a bit unless they fix it early on. It will cause the same amount of issues, if not more by a weaker duration overriding a stronger duration.

[ophion1990]

They probably need to leave it so long as sub needs a rupture/CT for its enormous damage bonus.

Isn't it for assa? Since they use 4 point and 5 point finishers, your 4 point rupture has to be able to overwrite the 5 point one when it's about to drop since using muti at 4 points is a waste. Atleast that's the reason I'd assume it to work like that.

[shadowboy]

Sorry. Let me try to clear that up.

Rupture A was applied to the target with 5 combo points.
Rupture A is set to expire in 5 seconds.
Player applies Rupture B with 2 combo points.
Rupture B damage will not be applied until Rupture A has finished it's duration.
5 seconds have past, Rupture B will now be doing it's damage as applied by it's 2 combo point cost.
Rupture B will expire in 3 seconds.
Player builds up 5 combo points.
Player uses Rupture with 5 combo points.
Rupture C overwrites Rupture B immediately; Restoring it's fulls duration, and upgrading it's damage to the match value of 5 combo points.

This is not how it's happening, here is what happens based on my testing on 6.0 PTR

Rupture A was applied to the target with 5 combo points.
Rupture A is set to expire in 5 seconds.
Player applies Rupture B with 2 combo points.
Rupture B is applied immediately at rupture B's tick damage, extending B's duration by the 5sec remaining on A.
Rupture B will expire in 3 seconds.
Player builds up 5 combo points.
Player uses Rupture with 5 combo points.
Rupture C is applied immediately, at rupture C's tick damage, and adding the remaining 3 sec of rupture B to rupture C's duration (at rupture C's tick damage)

So here is what you get: 9 ticks at rupture A, 7 ticks at rupture B, 14 ticks at rupture C. for a total of 30 ticks (total duration retained)

What your description is purporting:
12 ticks at rupture A, 4 ticks at rupture B, 12 ticks at rupture C, for a total of 28 ticks--a loss of the last 2 ticks that you clipped the 2pt rupture with the 5pt with (that duration is retained).

To be 100% clear, it does NOT wait for a stronger rupture to expire before using the new rupture's damage. it applies the new rupture's damage IMMEDIATELY and extends the new rupture's damage by the remaining duration of the old rupture (I haven't verified if it's by 30% of the old or new rupture duration, should be easy enough), it does this whether the new one is stronger or weaker so you can ADD damage to a low cp rupture by extending it with a higher cp one as long as the weaker one is in the last 30% of its duration. (this is SPECIFICALLY for cp size, procs I believe dynamically scale--I have not verified this though).

Edit: Quick testing, it appears it's 30% of the NEW rupture's duration. 5sec remaining on a 1pt rupture extended a 5pt rupture to 29sec. refreshing a 5pt rupture with a 2pt rupture at 5sec remaining extends the 2pt rupture to 15 sec. So basically here is a revised list:

t0: Rupture A is applied at 5cp
t2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18: Rupture A does 5cp tick damage
t19: rupture B is applied at 2cp, the 12sec duration is extended by 30% to 15.6 sec or to time 34.6 since application of rupture A
t20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30: rupture B does 2cp tick damage.
t31.6: rupture C is applied at 5cp, since 3sec remaining is less than 30% of 24sec, the new rupture is 27 sec, added onto the 31.6 current time for a final duration of 58.6
t32,34,36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50,52,54,56,58: rupture C deals damage at 5cp value
t58.6: rupture expires. I have not tested if a final tick for 30% of a single tick's damage is added at the expiration (0.6sec is 30% of a tick duration so it may actually calculate 30% of a tick damage and apply it at 58.6s).

so final tally is 9 ticks at rupture A, 6 ticks at rupture B, and 14 or 14.3 ticks at rupture C.

Edit2: It appparently is not applying the partial tick.

[Sesshou]

Isn't it for assa? Since they use 4 point and 5 point finishers, your 4 point rupture has to be able to overwrite the 5 point one when it's about to drop since using muti at 4 points is a waste. Atleast that's the reason I'd assume it to work like that.

There is that too, but I think letting it drop momentarily for sub is a larger loss than letting it drop momentarily for assassination. Now at the time they changed it, assassination was probably more the issue because sub rupture auto refreshed with evis.

Now you can fix the sub issue with a hemo glyph and the assassination one with anticipation so neither is really that important... but personally I don't want them making global changes assuming any 'optional' talents or glyphs unless the change is going to baseline them.