Combat in the prepatch...a problem for many rogues?

[Deleted]

So, with the prepatch hitting probably (hopefully) next Wednesday, what are your thoughts on combat being the cookie cutter in raids, especially with the removal of Shadow Blades?

I expect it will be a bad day for alot of rogues, who now depend on/ are used to this spec and the incredible use it makes of this CD, compared to the other two specs which will barely feel the difference. Combat not only loses out on flat dmg, it also loses out on CDR that way, ans lots of it. The 15% increase to RS proccing SS is not even remotely close to what SB generates on live.

So, your thoughts ladies and gentlemen. Will we bury combat for the remainder of MoP? Should raiding rogues get their daggers ready? What will you raid with?

[Grayjoy]

So, with the prepatch hitting probably (hopefully) next Wednesday, what are your thoughts on combat being the cookie cutter in raids, especially with the removal of Shadow Blades?

I expect it will be a bad day for alot of rogues, who now depend on/ are used to this spec and the incredible use it makes of this CD, compared to the other two specs which will barely feel the difference. Combat not only loses out on flat dmg, it also loses out on CDR that way, ans lots of it. The 15% increase to RS proccing SS is not even remotely close to what SB generates on live.

So, your thoughts ladies and gentlemen. Will we bury combat for the remainder of MoP? Should raiding rogues get their daggers ready? What will you raid with?

See, everything I've seen indicates that combat will be the best spec, and that disappoints me. It's just a clunky monstrosity with low haste levels. Blade flurry is such a powerful cooldown in situations the other specs do not excel in, and that is becoming a problem.

I'm one of the people who will raid as whatever spec does best. Ideally, it's mut/sub. Combat without AoC and SB will feel terrible with 50-energy sinister strikes.

[Datenshi]

So, your thoughts ladies and gentlemen. Will we bury combat for the remainder of MoP? Should raiding rogues get their daggers ready? What will you raid with?

let us hope so.... and let it only get risen from the grave when it's not such a clunky stupid spam spec :P
also one of the reasons i'm dreading WoD atm is because combat looks to be the best spec and i REALLY hate playing it xD (i know i know i can always switch specs but to be competitive i'll probably still need to spec combat)

ps. this is just my personal opinion and i had to vent it for a little bit ^_^

[Deleted]

My raidleader has no clue of rogues in general so I'm just gonna pretend Assa/Sub are the superior specs in the prepatch. Gotta remember to let the other rogue in on the plan.

[Sativ]

My raidleader has no clue of rogues in general so I'm just gonna pretend Assa/Sub are the superior specs in the prepatch. Gotta remember to let the other rogue in on the plan.

Wise move.

[Feali]

There are only two things that can get me to play Combat in the prepatch: Fix AoC or make Combat not be better than Sub and Assa in WoD. I can't take any more of this mindless button smashing.

[Deleted]

I prefer to play assassin myself in raids and play combat in dungeons just for a change , I just wish I didn't have to keep looting damn fist weapons cause for some reason I cant for the life of me loot and sword and we cant mogg fists to swords which sucks balls hard. I'm gunna miss shadow blades a lot and i'll also miss Fan of knives cause I love it .

[jsz]

I sincerely doubt that 6.0 is coming out this coming reset.

[Sturmgewehr86]

I sincerely doubt that 6.0 is coming out this coming reset.

I've put my money on 8th of October .

[Deleted]

I sincerely doubt that 6.0 is coming out this coming reset.

This may be so, but changes nothing in regard to this threads topic ^^

[Skarzog]

I do not look forward to it. We got a taste of what Combat could be...fun. The cooldown reduction trinkets were just that for most specs, but for Combat it was a new experience. Adrenaline Rush without Shadow Blades does not feel satisfying.

For me it is not a matter of performance, I'm sure Combat will continue to perform well. It is an issue of fun. They went in the right direction with Combat in 5.4, intentional or just a byproduct of the items. Without Shadow Blades and the cdr Combat feels so slow, even with alot of haste. On the beta in introductory gear it is almost unplayable, it feels like my character is immersed in molasses.

They built in the Divine Storm tier bonus for Rets because it was fun. I don't know why they couldn't bake in the addtional combo point generation into AR and reduced cooldown lengths. Those things made Combat a better spec, removing them feels like a step backwards.

[DakonBlackblade]

Whats the indication that combat is this strong on beta ? All 3 specs are very strong. There are some fights combat has an advantage cause of cleave but that has always been the case.

I dont think I can ever play combat again, after feeling what the spec should be on this tier, the clunky mess its now on beta drains all they joy of the spec.

[Willoughby]

Whats the indication that combat is this strong on beta ? All 3 specs are very strong. There are some fights combat has an advantage cause of cleave but that has always been the case.

Most of the t17 fights involve cleave and and combat looks very competitive in single target sims.

So for strictly single target, it's obviously not the top spec but it looks much stronger than the other two overall. It just doesn't have any major weaknesses.

[Deleted]

Most of the t17 fights involve cleave and and combat looks very competitive in single target sims.

So for strictly single target, it's obviously not the top spec but it looks much stronger than the other two overall. It just doesn't have any major weaknesses.

I have no problem with that.

Despite me favoring the Assassination and Sub playstyle, Combat has always been my trusty secondary companion for EXACTLY these situations. That's how the rogue should be, adaptive. High Single target dps required? Go Assa. Superhigh burst for 10-20 seconds? Sub I go. Cleave things in the face? Time for Captain Combat!

What I don't want to see again, is combat (or Sub, or Assa) dominating ALL fight situations.

[Deleted]

So you guys want Combat's single target dps nerfed? I've played Combat troughout Molten Core, Onyxia, Blackwing Lair and also in TBC most of times and it has always been my favourite spec for every tier. I don't see why its suddenly a problem that Combat is actually competitive at the start of an xpansion wich wasn't the case in either Cata or MoP. If you somehow feel Assa or Sub is underpowered then we should provide feedback about those specs.
Combat also never really has been a pvp spec, wich both Assa and Sub maintained those roles. Combat should be a strong spec, or it has nothing else going for it.

[Ryme]

I wouldn't mind as much about combat being our best spec again if it didn't gear so differently to Assassination and Subtlety - it's likely I'm never going to get to play those specs this expansion unless something changes to Blade Flurry or another case of on demand tight window burst is required from Sub.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind as much about combat being our best spec again if it didn't gear so differently to Assassination and Subtlety - it's likely I'm never going to get to play those specs this expansion unless something changes to Blade Flurry or another case of on demand tight window burst is required from Sub.

I think specifically in SoO Combat has always shined at cleave fights. Some guilds dps whoring using insignificant data in order to inflate world of logs with cleave or by other means does not mean subtlety and assa has been unviable. Its pretty much a social problem, not balance problem.
I have at least a dozen of heroic raiding rogues in my friendlist, and many of them actually go Assa or Sub wherever they can due to its undeniable specialized single target. Stop using recount, start using skada and use single target data to judge actual perfomance. Social problem, not balance.

[Ryme]

I think specifically in SoO Combat has always shined at cleave fights. Some guilds dps whoring using insignificant data in order to inflate world of logs with cleave or by other means does not mean subtlety and assa has been unviable. Its pretty much a social problem, not balance problem.
I have at least a dozen of heroic raiding rogues in my friendlist, and many of them actually go Assa or Sub wherever they can due to its undeniable specialized single target. Stop using recount, start using skada and use single target data to judge actual perfomance. Social problem, not balance.

No no, Combat is ahead single target. In simulation and practise, it's not a social issue. Even if that wasn't the case, Blade Flurry is so good that it makes playing the other specs now and and in WoD difficult to justify, which was my gripe.

[Warstar]

See, everything I've seen indicates that combat will be the best spec, and that disappoints me. It's just a clunky monstrosity with low haste levels. Blade flurry is such a powerful cooldown in situations the other specs do not excel in, and that is becoming a problem.

I'm one of the people who will raid as whatever spec does best. Ideally, it's mut/sub. Combat without AoC and SB will feel terrible with 50-energy sinister strikes.

Last time I was on the PTR the AoC had been most of the way fixed going from 2% CDR back to its live stats... but, it just flat out was broken and didn't actually provide any CDR at all so atm it seems like they're looking at keeping the AoC the way it is currently.

Also at heroic gear level rogues have enough haste that even outside of hero we're energy capping with AR/SB. One of the reasons behind this is every couple SS we're able to use a finisher which with relentless strikes and ruthlessness costs next to nothing and refunds a CP even though we're over flowing with CP and energy capping as it is.

And on top of this any gear a rogue had that had hit/exp on it and didn't happen to have haste on it as well now also has haste increasing our energy regen even more.

Personally with good gear I feel SB actually makes the spec a lot more clunky in a pve raid environment. Without it it should smooth out our AR usage by a good margin making us waste less resources.

Now don't get me wrong I mourn the loss of SB just like the next guy. Come the first raid tier in WoD the resource capping issue won't be a thing anymore so missing out on SB will be pretty lame. More important than any pve environment though I think the loss of SB for pvp is a bigger loss than anything else since that takes away a big chunk of burst for all specs. /rip

But, since this is a thread about the ~month before the pre-patch 6.0 lands... no I don't think rogues will be in a pinch and if anything should be able to experience the same fun rapid use of cooldowns just with a smoother game flow. That is if they do fully fix the AoC. W/O the AoC I do agree that combat will be kinda lame. But, who knows. Whatever spec does the highest dps I'll be playing whether its combat or whatever.

[Deleted]

No no, Combat is ahead single target. In simulation and practise, it's not a social issue. Even if that wasn't the case, Blade Flurry is so good that it makes playing the other specs now and and in WoD difficult to justify, which was my gripe.

Subtlety shows a very significant boost on my Shadowcraft profile, over that of Combat. Admittedly its only assassination that may needed some catching up to do this tier. But I wouldn't agree if you'd say Subtlety has not enjoyed very iconic single target dps this tier. And imo, it should be higher then Assassination, because of its positional requirements and engaging mechanics.