The Irony of Jay Wilson Working on WoW

[tehdef]

yeah, its not like he'd g round saying fuck that loser behind a veil of anonymity, and they get found out is it.

He said that on his Facebook with his real name attached. That wasn't anonymous. Private is not equal to anon.

[Yig]

Well.. no. WoW was a well designed game two to three years ago. Today it is a endgame-only game with grinds and content dry phases, designed by people who have no fun and passion to design it.

WTF? What dimension are you from. Since 2004, WOW was just farming 5 mans if you couldn't raid, pvp, and alts (with professions). That was it.

MOP added more options to do than ever before. Hunting world heirlooms, hunting pets, hunting treasure in the world, daily quests that actually tell long full sized lore heavy stories with radical rewards. Scenarios. Challenge modes. Hunting rare spawns. Soloing rare spawns. Collecting transmog gear by soloing old content, some of that old content harder than anything in the game to solo depending.

You may not like those options, but to say they aren't options is just dishonest.

When the hell was this alternative era of the game you seem to think existed, and what were the options you had then which were so much better?

[SodiumChloride]

WTF? What dimension are you from. Since 2004, WOW was just farming 5 mans if you couldn't raid, pvp, and alts (with professions). That was it.

MOP added more options to do than ever before. Hunting world heirlooms, hunting pets, hunting treasure in the world, daily quests that actually tell long full sized lore heavy stories with radical rewards. Scenarios. Challenge modes. Hunting rare spawns. Soloing rare spawns. Collecting transmog gear by soloing old content, some of that old content harder than anything in the game to solo depending.

You may not like those options, but to say they aren't options is just dishonest.

When the hell was this alternative era of the game you seem to think existed, and what were the options you had then which were so much better?

That said, none of the above give character progression.

[Yig]

That said, none of the above give character progression.

I guess if you only value numbers on a scale you judge the importance of. But that totally ignores actual experience, as in perception, and entertainment.
Character progression in an RPG is about having options to enjoy yourself and enjoy the time you spend in the world in a sub based MMO you pay for, only power gamers who care about nothing but DPS charts and raid progression omit actual leisure and captivating entertainment as character progression IMO.

Games are traditionally about fun, not building the biggest chart of numbers you can. This game is about having somewhere to spend time you enjoy. That can be mindless relaxing tasks, challenging tasks, or any number of things like the creative outlet role playing offers.

If all you care about is server firsts, raid progression, min/maxing, and that sort of thing, you're missing out of much of what this game has to give.
And if what we have is not sufficient to what you value, what would hypothetically offer more?

[SodiumChloride]

I guess if you only value numbers on a scale you judge the importance of. But that totally ignores actual experience, as in perception, and entertainment.
Character progression in an RPG is about having options to enjoy yourself and enjoy the time you spend in the world in a sub based MMO you pay for, only power gamers who care about nothing but DPS charts and raid progression omit actual leisure and captivating entertainment as character progression IMO.

Games are traditionally about fun, not building the biggest chart of numbers you can. This game is about having somewhere to spend time you enjoy. That can be mindless relaxing tasks, challenging tasks, or any number of things like the creative outlet role playing offers.

If all you care about is server firsts, raid progression, min/maxing, and that sort of thing, you're missing out of much of what this game has to give.
And if what we have is not sufficient to what you value, what would hypothetically offer more?

Ya, I know. But still character progression is an important part of the RPG experience. Almost every RPG has character progression.

[Conscious]

You said there was irony. Where is it? I just see a bunch of ignorance.

You wish.

Diablo style systems are finding their way onto WoW, no coincidence there.

[Nozuka]

everything thats wrong with a game always has to be the fault of one person...

[ReleaseDay]

Jay Wilson has been relentlessly bashed for turning D3 into WoW and bringing WoW features into Diablo 3, and now the irony is that he's working on WoW. The fact is however, that WoW is, for the most part, a superbly well-designed game. The game systems are logical, sensible, effective at achieving the design goals, and the design goals are usually nicely aligned with fun. Therefore, there's nothing wrong with copying WoW. The alternative of copying D2's terrible game design would be far worse. WoW's game design is awesome, and presumably WoW players realize this fact, while D3 players prefer convoluted and unintuitive gimmicks and have a blind and seething hatred of anything associated with WoW. So perhaps, people will realize this now that he's credited in WoD.

I stopped reading there. Lmao with WoD being 1 year delayed already. Effectiveness! 0/10

[Replica]

"fuck that loser"

[Salech]

The other threads are locked. Wilson really loved the RMAH, he spoke strongly in support of it. I've noted that Pardo takes ultimate responsibility. The CMs are messengers, but Wilson, GC, and Celestalon are not messagers, they are game designers. The irony is simple: people complain D3 sucks because Wilson was trying to make it into WoW, but now he's working on WoW and it should now be obvious copying WoW doesn't suck.

False, People complained because he made diablo 3 a shitfest of enormous proportions, now people complain because he introduces D3 randomness (which is extremely bad in an mmo) in to WoW.

[Deleted]

So you say Diablo 3 was awesome...well...it's a good game, but there's one thing from when it first came out...

When I installed the game, it told my entire computer to look in a DIFFERENT PLACE for my GRAPHICS CARD. It literally jumbled my computer's circuits, to which state where the graphics card and motherboard where both so damn confused as to what was going on, that the graphics card kept running at full power and the motherboard was still trying to FIND the graphics card in a SLOT THAT DIDN'T EXIST!

The graphics card melted itself while my computer kept blue screening and crashing all the time even after the replacement graphics card!!!

Only one of my more tech savvy friends could actually save my entire system as she had to go into the BIOS (or whatever the hell) and MANUALLY tell the computer to search in the right damn place again.

Then later on D3 got patched so it didn't do this crap again.

So yeah. Good game though. I enjoyed playing it after it didn't mess my computer up.

[Tharkkun]

Demonizing implies it isn't called for. Jay Wilson almost destroyed Diablo (in a bad way). It's called for.

Shrug, for a game that sucks it's sold 15 million copies not including the expansion pack. Aside from FPS's I played D3 about as long as I play any other game that isn't a MMO. I got my moneys worth. It didn't cure world hunger or provide an outlet for my inability to keep myself from being bored but when I played, it was fun.

[Vynestra]

People blame Jay Wilson for D3, however there was a slew of people that AGREE'D with all of Jay Wilsons idea's.

The problem wasn't Jay Wilson, the problem was everyone agree'd with him clearly. Just like blaming balance issues on GC or Celestalon, there is a team that makes these changes, not one person.

[Deleted]

What's the point? He worked on BC/Wrath aswell, which are praised by the community and suddenly everybody bitches about him?

[Herecius]

You obviously didn't play D3 on release. The game was an absolute shambolic mess. The RMAH was a problem, but it definitely was not the biggest problem.

No kidding. I'll happily say that I did enjoy D3 when it was released, but it was also a terrible mess. It was a slog. Inferno was a horrible mess, itemization was garbage, legendary design was horrendous, and they somehow managed to make the grind for gear worse than D2 Pindleskin runs. That's like... a cardinal sin, I'm pretty sure.
Rose colored glasses work on a lot of things, but Jay Wilson's designing of D3's initial offering is not one of them. Yeah, it's awesome now, but it wasn't back then.

In any case, Wilson is just one designer among many on WoW, especially with WoD, which is... well, let's just say WoD seems to have a 'too many chefs in the kitchen' problem.

[Infernix]

GF for PvP on WoW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLLWpT_nsTE

IT HAS BEGUUUN!!!!!!!!!!

This is absolutely hilarious. I wonder if the PVP masses have seen this yet?

[MoanaLisa]

False, People complained because he made diablo 3 a shitfest of enormous proportions, now people complain because he introduces D3 randomness (which is extremely bad in an mmo) in to WoW.

If you have a reliable source for what Jay Wilson has and hasn't done in the design for Warlords of Draenor I'm sure we would all love to read it.

- - - Updated - - -

No kidding. I'll happily say that I did enjoy D3 when it was released, but it was also a terrible mess. It was a slog. Inferno was a horrible mess, itemization was garbage, legendary design was horrendous, and they somehow managed to make the grind for gear worse than D2 Pindleskin runs. That's like... a cardinal sin, I'm pretty sure.

One thing I will say about Wilson--and Wyatt Cheng has confirmed it--was that Wilson pushed and pushed hard for the D3 combat engine to be what it is now. It's difficult to forgive his multitude of other sins but the combat engine in that game. Damn.

Personally I think he was just in over his head as a game director and Pardo didn't or wouldn't rescue him. There were plenty of signs of this during the beta. Blizzard obviously sees something in the guy that we don't as they've kept him around but given his place in the credits it's difficult to believe that his contributions were significant. In any case, whatever they were and are, or if his work is actually in the game at all, it's Chilton that's responsible for what the game is and isn't. Anybody that want to blame someone for something? Blame him. If D3 style RNG loot is in the game at launch it's there because Chilton said OK and signed off on it.

[bluspacecow]

If you have a reliable source for what Jay Wilson has and hasn't done in the design for Warlords of Draenor I'm sure we would all love to read it.

^^ This

What guarantee do we have that what Jay Wilson put in there is still in there ?

Also Greg Street's name is in there who hasn't been working for Blizzard since Jan 14 of this year. That should be a gigantic clue bat for you right there - that with Blizzard's iterative design process Ghost Crawlers contributions are probably mostly gone .... yet he gets a credit in the credits.

[Last Starfighter]

Jay Wilson has been relentlessly bashed for turning D3 into WoW and bringing WoW features into Diablo 3, and now the irony is that he's working on WoW. The fact is however, that WoW is, for the most part, a superbly well-designed game. The game systems are logical, sensible, effective at achieving the design goals, and the design goals are usually nicely aligned with fun. Therefore, there's nothing wrong with copying WoW. The alternative of copying D2's terrible game design would be far worse. WoW's game design is awesome, and presumably WoW players realize this fact, while D3 players prefer convoluted and unintuitive gimmicks and have a blind and seething hatred of anything associated with WoW. So perhaps, people will realize this now that he's credited in WoD.

Jay Wilson did almost everything right in D3. But he got 1 critical thing wrong: the RMAH. He ruined and destroyed D3 by turning the game into a pointless, pay-to-win, share market simulator, where you literally can buy the best gear. That's equivalent to being able to legitimately buy heroic raid loot with real money. So the haters are also right that Jay Wilson utterly wrecked D3 to the point that it was literally a stinking piece of utter shit not worth anyone's time or money. A further irony is that many WoW players support this and support buying gold with real money (see here, here and high support for the Guardian Cub).

So Jay Wilson's involvement in WoW is a funny thing. Take a moment to reexamine what you think of WoW and D3.

I love it. When drama queens QQ, I'm all for it. Jay Wilson#1!

[TiduZ]

Jay Wilson did almost everything right in D3.

Are you fuckin kidding? Diablo 3 was a disaster of a game that couldn't have been designed any worse.