Portugal - animal abuse

[NPEC]

Morning

Today i saw in the portuguese news that a new law, about animals abuse, was put in place.

Acording with the news i saw, animal abuser will face jail time for abuse inflicted on animals, up to a maximum of 2 years in case the abuse result on the death of the animal.

In the same story it was said that portuguese animals associations were happy with the new law but concerned that this law will have a poor enforcement.

I have to confess that im not a animal person, i normal just ignore animals, however i find it disturbing when i hear how some animals get misstreated. Because of this i do belive this law is a good thing.

My question is, do you belive this kind of laws are a good thing, and if yes does the sentence, possiblity of 2 years in prison in case of the death of the animal, is to much or should be higher?

Finaly does the contry where you live have similar laws?

Ps: sry for misspeling, gramar and anything else you can find wrong in the texto.

[glo]

Where I live (US), you can get prison time for heinous animal abuse. It has to be pretty bad, though.

[Independent voter]

Where I live (US), you can get prison time for heinous animal abuse. It has to be pretty bad, though.

I think it varies by state? That football player got prison time over electrocuting his dogs, they were pitbulls and he was fighting them for money. When they couldn't fight anymore he killed them by electrocution. Fighting dogs is a tradition in some places but I think it's now illegal everywhere.

They fight chickens too but few care about chickens.

[Puri]

The maximum prison time for animal abuse in Germany is three years. But facing prison time happens very rarely, usually they have to pay a fine.

It's a bad thing we even need those laws instead of using common sense, but in times of industrial produced food they are necessary.

[glo]

I think it varies by state? That football player got prison time over electrocuting his dogs, they were pitbulls and he was fighting them for money. When they couldn't fight anymore he killed them by electrocution. Fighting dogs is a tradition in some places but I think it's now illegal everywhere.

They fight chickens too but few care about chickens.

Most animal cruelty charges are federal crimes, so prison time (if sentenced) would be uniform across all states.

[Deleted]

I think any sentence that gets close to the same as if you had hurt another human is too much.

[Attackrabbit]

they were pitbulls and he was fighting them for money.

I'd pay to see an idiot attempt to fight pitbulls and get absolutely shredded. Although thinking about it some more maybe you mean he used the dogs in dog fights against other dogs to attempt to win money

[glo]

I think any sentence that gets close to the same as if you had hurt another human is too much.

If you murder a human you get a lot more than 2 years.

[Fargus]

Where I live (US), you can get prison time for heinous animal abuse. It has to be pretty bad, though.

Yet it's perfectly legal over there to use a glue trap, catch a rodent and throw it into the bin to starve to death or gnaw its limbs off to escape in complete terror.

I would say your laws regarding animal cruelty still need more work.

[glo]

Yet it's perfectly legal over there to use a glue trap, catch a rodent and throw it into the bin to starve to death or gnaw its limbs off to escape in complete terror.

I would say your laws regarding animal cruelty still need more work.

The high horse would be justified if there was more than just one country that has banned them. So before you get your daily US bashing nut off, go ahead and lump in the rest of the world as well.

[Fargus]

The high horse would be justified if there was more than just one country that has banned them. So before you get your daily US bashing nut off, go ahead and lump in the rest of the world as well.

There are plenty of countries who have banned them. Germany, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand, Netherlands to name a few - in other places are regulated/restricted.

[glo]

There are plenty of countries who have banned them.

Well then you shouldn't have any issues citing proof outside of Ireland.

[Fargus]

Well then you shouldn't have any issues citing proof outside of Ireland.

Ireland aren't the only European country who have banned them. There have been quite a few people from these European countries here who have said they are banned. They are prohibited in New Zealand as well. Oh, here's an article from Germany saying that use on rodents is in violation of their animal welfare act. It is also illegal in the Netherlands to use glue traps on rodents, it is also illegal in Norway.

So that pretty much covers the countries I mentioned initially. Without looking, I am sure there are others who have followed suit, on the basis that in a lot of European countries, animal welfare laws are very similar.

[Deleted]

@OP
I guess that bulls aren't considered animals acording to that law, seeing as bullfighters aren't fined or imprisoned after each bullfighting event.
Having said this, I don't think that the new law is too harsh, but rather too soft.

[glo]

Ireland aren't the only European country who have banned them. There have been quite a few people from these European countries here who have said they are banned. They are prohibited in New Zealand as well. Oh, here's an article from Germany saying that use on rodents is in violation of their animal welfare act.

Except the link you provided still shows them in use until the end of the year, and afterwards people can gain licenses from the government. Read your own sources. As far as Germany goes, the story you're providing doesn't coincide with their animal cruelty act: https://www.animallaw.info/statute/g...al-welfare-act

Google searches also return absolutely nothing on a ban in Germany. Regardless, even if NZ, Germany and Ireland have them banned, that leaves the other 95% of the world's population without bans, making your targeted statement still stupid.

Lastly, I find it funny that you're clearly from Australia with that google translate link, where glue traps are widely used by pest control companies, yet you think you have some national moral high ground to bash the US for utilizing the same tools.

[NPEC]

I probably should have stated this but forgot, in the news it was said that the law as to be aplyed to pets. Still probably also aply to dogs, cats, etc, without oner (im not sue what is the englhis word for it), but i belive it wont aply to rats, insects, and the like.

[Deleted]

but i belive it wont aply to rats, insects, and the like.

And bulls, yep. Got it. Rats, insects and bulls, they're all alike.

[Oktoberfest]

I think it varies by state? That football player got prison time over electrocuting his dogs, they were pitbulls and he was fighting them for money. When they couldn't fight anymore he killed them by electrocution. Fighting dogs is a tradition in some places but I think it's now illegal everywhere.

They fight chickens too but few care about chickens.

He went to jail for running a dog fighting ring. It was about money not the actual cruelty. The Federal govt could give a fuck less about cruelty. But dont you dare cheat them out of a dime or they will bring the wrath of God down on you

[Fargus]

Except the link you provided still shows them in use until the end of the year, and afterwards people can gain licenses from the government. Read your own sources. As far as Germany goes, the story you're providing doesn't coincide with their animal cruelty act: https://www.animallaw.info/statute/g...al-welfare-act

So? Even if pest controllers are exempt (with strict guidelines of use), that still doesn't make what I said invalid. They are still prohibited, and a full ban will be in effect as of next year which just highlights the fact that Ireland isn't the only country who have banned them (or are planning to).

Why wouldn't it coincide with their welfare act? I just gave you an article showing that an exterminator got into trouble for using adhesive traps because he caught rodents in them, the prosecutor's office saying it is in violation of their animal cruelty laws. Germany's animal welfare act has emphasis on preventing unnecessary suffering of vertebrate animals, and the killing of them in a humane manner. I will refer you to section 4:

(1) Vertebrates may be killed only under anaesthetic or painlessly where reasonable under the circumstances. Where killing of a vertebrate without anaesthetic is authorized, either as part of sportsmanlike hunting or pursuant to other provisions, or forms part of a permissible pest control campaign, the killing may be carried out only if it causes no more than unavoidable pain. Only persons with the requisite expertise and skills may kill a vertebrate.(1a) Persons professionally or commercially engaged in stunning or killing vertebrates have to furnish proof of such expertise to the competent authority. If poultry is stunned or killed within the framework of an activity under the first sentence in the presence of a supervisor this person shall also furnish proof of expertise apart from the person stunning or killing the animals. If within the framework of such an activity under the first sentence fish are stunned or killed in the presence of a supervisor, it shall be sufficient that he furnishes proof of expertise.

Google searches also return absolutely nothing on a ban in Germany. Regardless, even if NZ, Germany and Ireland have them banned, that leaves the other 95% of the world's population without bans, making your targeted statement still stupid.

Seems like you didn't search hard enough, or you're being disingenuous, because the article I gave you shows that glue traps are not allowed to be used on rodents. There is also this article, citing from the animal welfare act. Contrary, I don't think so.

I would say the same for any civilised country, not just the US. A large chunk of the world are either developing or are 3rd world, I wouldn't expect such countries to have strong animal cruelty laws. I'd expect you guys should, as with us.

Lastly, I find it funny that you're clearly from Australia with that google translate link, where glue traps are widely used by pest control companies, yet you think you have some national moral high ground to bash the US for utilizing the same tools.

Except that here in Aus they are regulated, in the US they are not. In some states, they are banned from use by the public. You have to be a qualified pest control operator and met specific criteria to use them where I live. So yes, generally speaking, they are still a prohibited item.

It's not "nation bashing". I just find it absurd and hypocritical that any country would have seemingly such strong cruelty laws for 'heinous acts', but little to nothing of actually torturing a little mammal to death on a sheet of glue. Even if glue traps aren't banned, the least I expect is some relevant piece of law that forbids people just leaving them on the trap and starving them to death. The same with a leghold trap on foxes. If traps are legal, then putting the animal through unnecessary suffering in them shouldn't be.

[Ghostpanther]

@OP
I guess that bulls aren't considered animals acording to that law, seeing as bullfighters aren't fined or imprisoned after each bullfighting event.
Having said this, I don't think that the new law is too harsh, but rather too soft.

Great point. Bull fighting is animal abuse for sure. Should have banned it there years ago. How anyone can say dog fighting is bad and yet not think bull fighting is, needs to stop and consider the hypocrisy involved.