School excluded English speaking children from school trip

[Holofernes]

so a pedagogic measure for non-native speaker children is beeing seen as racism by the native speaker children´s parents? Because it involved seeing and cuddling little ponys? Thats a worthy newspaper headline.

[Reeve]

My thought's on this are if you do not speak fluently the language of where you plan to live then you shouldn't be allowed to live there.

So you should leave Minnesota? After all, your English wasn't perfect in that sentence.

Honestly, how do you expect someone to become fluent before they arrive? I know a lot of South Americans in Houston who didn't speak more than a few words of English when they arrived and are now fluent. They would never have become fluent if they didn't move here, and I would never have become proficient in Spanish without being around Spanish speakers.

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Most foreign parents actually do speak English just fine. The problem is they often use their first language in the home because it's more comfortable, which means their kids don't gain as much fluency as others do by the time they reach primary school. You might also have situations where the working parent who has moved his/her family to where his/her business is has a stay at home partner who isn't that good at English, which means the child doesn't pick up the skills. I had a Portuguese friend whose mother couldn't speak English very well but her dad could. There's nothing wrong with giving them a bit of extra attention to help kick-start their language skills.

My Step Sister speaks English fluently, and in some ways is more comfortable in it than Spanish these days, but she speaks Spanish at home because she wants her son who's growing up to know how to speak both English and Spanish. He gets enough English just from TV and school and other students. Speaking Spanish at home means he gets to retain both languages, which is valuable.

[aoussar123]

Congratulations, you're effectively squandering the tax payers money and treating the danish children as second class citizens. That being said, nothing here indicates these childrens are refugees and they attended regular classes with everyone else otherwise. If you want to finance stuff like this, please take your own money.

I don't have children yet but I'd refuse to pay for stuff my children do not get to enjoy because you'd rather give benefits to people we're not even responsible for. And no your made up sob story about little war orphans does not faze me in any kind of way.

Oh, guess what? Your tax-moneys goes to a lot of things you might not agree with. Deal with it. There are more people in this world than YOU and yours. Also, how am I fucking the danish kids over when they get their trips too? And might I add, better trips, when it's just them and they don't have to hang around a bunch of refugees and get depressed.

It does not faze you in any kind of way? Well, fuck me. What are we to do with these children then, close the borders and pretend that they aren't coming? Have a fucking heart man.

EDIT: Also, you have no idea of how teaching works if you believe going to a zoo with the small grades can't help their language learning. Theory on the subject proves you wrong.

[Daethz]

Western governments seem very adept at wasting tax money.
Heck id guess over 50% of americas money is wasted.

[Deleted]

What are we to do with these children then, close the borders and pretend that they aren't coming? Have a fucking heart man.

You don't actually help refugees by taking them into your countries though. To me taking in a few refugees of the worlds 50 million refugees is just a "Look at me, I want to be seen as good because I accept a few refugees but leave the rest in the mud.".

[Deleted]

so a pedagogic measure for non-native speaker children is beeing seen as racism by the native speaker children´s parents? Because it involved seeing and cuddling little ponys? Thats a worthy newspaper headline.

How about instead of spending it on a trip of questionable outcome, use it for supplimentary classes in a regular classroom without all of these distractions? Or send the other children out while you have special classes for those in need? It's a waste of money at the very least and to children this sends a pretty clear and depressing message.

Honestly, how do you expect someone to become fluent before they arrive? I know a lot of South Americans in Houston who didn't speak more than a few words of English when they arrived and are now fluent. They would never have become fluent if they didn't move here, and I would never have become proficient in Spanish without being around Spanish speakers.

I'm not living in an English speaking country, my written English is okay and I can hold an conversation in English without any kind of issue. There's classes and courses pretty much everywhere, not bothering to seek them out is proof of laziness and entitlement to the extreme. You also ignore that often these children are already born in the respective European countries, the parents don't teach them the language before they come into contact with the school system and they at best speak very broken local language despite being second or third generation immigrants.

You don't actually help refugees by taking them into your countries though. To me taking in a few refugees of the worlds 50 million refugees is just a "Look at me, I want to be seen as good because I accept a few refugees but leave the rest in the mud.".

Scary, I actually agree on something with you. They mostly do this to make themselves feel good and all cozy. Similar to paying five euro a month for a child in Africa. They can claim to be superior morality wise human beings.

Oh, guess what? Your tax-moneys goes to a lot of things you might not agree with. Deal with it. There are more people in this world than YOU and yours. Also, how am I fucking the danish kids over when they get their trips too? And might I add, better trips, when it's just them and they don't have to hang around a bunch of refugees and get depressed.

Well it's used to pay people like you, I don't agree with that as you're effectively even more a leech than someone who's unemployed since you're draining more money to no effect.

It does not faze you in any kind of way? Well, fuck me. What are we to do with these children then, close the borders and pretend that they aren't coming? Have a fucking heart man.

As harsh as it sounds? Yes. We need immigration, there's no question about that but POSITIVE one. We need doctors, nurses, engineers but while we don't let these people in or deny them to work in Europe people like you import the problems of other countries so you can feel all coozy and warm about being such a good person oh and have a jop paid for by taxpayers wasting their money.

Also, you have no idea of how teaching works if you believe going to a zoo with the small grades can't help their language learning. Theory on the subject proves you wrong.

Remind me, how did anti authoritan education work out again? Oh wait, it didn't. Theory btw isn't proof but just that, a theory.

[Reeve]

EDIT: Also, you have no idea of how teaching works if you believe going to a zoo with the small grades can't help their language learning. Theory on the subject proves you wrong.

I can tell you I learned 10x as much Spanish when I was in Bolivia in the jungle talking about things in the jungle. My vocabulary jumped drastically just by having physical experiences with the words I was learning.

[madmanx]

How does a trip to a zoo improve their ability to speak English? How does separating them from the English speaking children improve their English?

You are right of course. It was just a sinister plot to please our our new Sharia overlords....

Or it could possibly be that the trip was developed as an outing for students who does not speak English very well (or at all) and someone said that this might be boring for the native speakers...

Nah, you are probably right...it is reverse racism and PC GONE MAD!!!!!

[klogaroth]

Clearly these kids have to be separated.

It would be a complete waste of time for kids that already speak English to participate in something designed to teach non-English speaking kids English.

This seems to be to have absolutely nothing to do with wanting the best education for their children. In fact these complaints will probably result in the English speaking kids getting a worse education.

But the little cutesy fucking darlings won't miss going to the farm to learn fuck all when they could have been in class actually learning something.

Did I moan when people went on a trip for a subject that I wasn't studying when I was in school? Did I fuck. Because that's mental.
The English speaking kids weren't studying basic English. Why should they go on a trip for the basic English class?

You might as well send A-level history students on a trip with primary school kids to visit the Jorvik Viking Centre.

You are right of course. It was just a sinister plot to please our our new Sharia overlords....

Islamuminati confirmed.

[Deleted]

I don't know about you guys but every school trip I went on form 5 until 16 was a fuck about day where I learnt piss all, so how you can even begin to think that those kids are going to be learning anything is beyond me. I actually went to one of the best schools in the country (top 5 public rated) and even then the trips were utter shit.

I'm not going to pull the racism card because frankly it's a fucking school tip, my child would learn more not going - but those 'non english' speaking kids aren't going to learn shit about garry the goat or chris the cow.

[Reeve]

I'm not living in an English speaking country, my written English is okay and I can hold an conversation in English without any kind of issue. There's classes and courses pretty much everywhere, not bothering to seek them out is proof of laziness and entitlement to the extreme.

Really, there were cheap and readily accessible classes and courses in English in Iraq and Syria? Oh, and the people leaving those places of course had plenty of time ahead of their immigration to plan and learn the language properly? I can't imagine that maybe conditions where they were coming from forced them to leave suddenly. My step family is Colombian. They left Colombia suddenly because there were threats made against the family. They got here, didn't speak English hardly at all, and learned it over the course of the next decade. Now they're all fluent and valuable members of society.

You also ignore that often these children are already born in the respective European countries, the parents don't teach them the language before they come into contact with the school system and they at best speak very broken local language despite being second or third generation immigrants.

It's not a problem that they aren't taught before coming into the school system. They can learn while there. That's what all my step-siblings did, and they were generally straight-A students in the end. By middle school, they were just like all the other American teenagers, with the plus that they also fluently spoke Spanish.

[Deleted]

You are right of course. It was just a sinister plot to please our our new Sharia overlords....

Or it could possibly be that the trip was developed as an outing for students who does not speak English very well (or at all) and someone said that this might be boring for the native speakers...

Nah, you are probably right...it is reverse racism and PC GONE MAD!!!!!

I made no mention of that, at all.

[madmanx]

You don't actually help refugees by taking them into your countries though. To me taking in a few refugees of the worlds 50 million refugees is just a "Look at me, I want to be seen as good because I accept a few refugees but leave the rest in the mud.".

Did you want one country to take in every single one of the worlds 50 million refugees? What exactly is your point with this immensely stupid statement.

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I made no mention of that, at all.

You are just too clever for words.....

[Deleted]

I don't know about you guys but every school trip I went on form 5 until 16 was a fuck about day where I learnt piss all, so how you can even begin to think that those kids are going to be learning anything is beyond me. I actually went to one of the best schools in the country (top 5 public rated) and even then the trips were utter shit.

I'm not going to pull the racism card because frankly it's a fucking school tip, my child would learn more not going - but those 'non english' speaking kids aren't going to learn shit about garry the goat or chris the cow.

They don't actually believe the stuff they're spouting, they're making up excuses. Do you honestly believe that a trip to a PETTING ZOO for gradeschoolers which apparently included their parents would be used to learn anything? These children would mostly run around, petting animals, have fun and with their parents around as higher authority figures ignore the teachers.

That one guy claiming to be a teacher even brought up similar trips and related them to cheering these children up, in his case refugees which are inherently different from the children which this story is about, doesn't bother him though.

I made no mention of that, at all.

Ofc you didn't but since they can't actually discuss on eye height because they lack actual arguments they instead have to make you look like a xenophobic rambling person.

Really, there were cheap and readily accessible classes and courses in English in Iraq and Syria? Oh, and the people leaving those places of course had plenty of time ahead of their immigration to plan and learn the language properly? I can't imagine that maybe conditions where they were coming from forced them to leave suddenly. My step family is Colombian. They left Colombia suddenly because there were threats made against the family. They got here, didn't speak English hardly at all, and learned it over the course of the next decade. Now they're all fluent and valuable members of society.

Here's the thing, you're comparing refugees to actual immigrants. In most cases those are two completely different groups and so is their motivation for leaving their home country. You can excuse it to some extent in case of real refugees, you can't for immigrants, ever. You guys trying to make it seem as if everyone was a refugee is an pathethic attempt at deflecting criticism of how these things are currently treated.

It's not a problem that they aren't taught before coming into the school system. They can learn while there. That's what all my step-siblings did, and they were generally straight-A students in the end. By middle school, they were just like all the other American teenagers, with the plus that they also fluently spoke Spanish.

Yes it is. Just because it worked out in your case, doesn't mean it does always or even in most cases. The regular school system does not exist to teach you the countries primary language either, it's normaly expected to be spoken when joining. Having people who don't speak a word of the language in the same classes as those who do taking classes in said language is problematic to say the least.
Also still speaking Spanish up to the point where it's absolutely required to speak the local language clearly shows that you have no intention of actually integrating in society, instead you created your own counter society existing alongside the local one. Balkanization yay.

[Kalis]

The English speaking kids weren't studying basic English. Why should they go on a trip for the basic English class?

Because...something something...Empire...something something...bloody Johnny Foreigners...something something...Farage does not rhyme with garage, how very dare you?

To be fair, some English kids could do with basic English classes.

[Deleted]

Again, there's no reason to visit a zoo much less bring the families of said children along. There's a reason we have schools and classrooms and aren't teaching children in a petting zoo with loads and loads of stuff to distract them including the petting animals.

Oh please. Have you never been on an educational trip? Visited a museum and been sent on a "history hunt" type activity, or an art gallery to study technique? A petting zoo is a great place to learn in a fun way. "This a goat, what colour is the goat? The goat is..." This is how children learn English at a young age, by associating things with other things. Obviously it's not going to teach them grammar and form and all that because they're fucking 5 & 6. They don't even have a concept of what grammar is at that age. What it will teach them is how to describe what they're looking at, to ask questions, to compare objects/things to one another to be able to talk about them.

Before I would move somewhere, I would learn the local language.

Miss the point more. Firstly, not everyone has that luxury. You might be a non-working partner of somebody who moves abroad for business reasons and brings you along for convenience. You might be like many people with ESL and actually be fairly capable with English but still primarily use your first language in the home for convenience (many of my ESL friends say they often think in their first language and have to mentally translate before they speak) which means children don't pick up English as easily by the time they start attending school. You might be a refugee who had no choice but to flee for fear of death.

It's not a kids show, it's a goddamn school.

Missing the point again. Have you ever taught children to speak? You don't just throw a bunch of words at them. Visual stimuli help greatly when learning pretty much anything. This is the same thing. They'll learn about animals, how to talk about animals, and then can use that knowledge to make comparisons to other objects with similar qualities. That's how you learn.

We have classes and teachers for a reason. And seeing how they brought the families of said children along according to the articles, I doubt they've gotten anything done.

Yes, and the teachers were with them. They brought the parents because it's an opportunity for them to also speak and teach English to their children. It also means the parents are doing the majority of the child-watching/correcting misbehaviours and the teachers can just focus on teaching.

[Deleted]

Did you want one country to take in every single one of the worlds 50 million refugees? What exactly is your point with this immensely stupid statement.

No, even if all EU countries would take their share of those 50 million it would overload our infrastructure in an instant. It's just a "feel good" thing to want to accept a few but leave the rest in the mud. You don't actually help them when you take a few.

You are just too clever for words.....

They're not the only immigrants you know.

[Reeve]

You don't actually help refugees by taking them into your countries though. To me taking in a few refugees of the worlds 50 million refugees is just a "Look at me, I want to be seen as good because I accept a few refugees but leave the rest in the mud.".

Helping 1 million out of 50 million people is still helping 1 million people.

[Deleted]

Helping 1 million out of 50 million people is still helping 1 million people.

Whilst leaving the rest in the mud and the problem that's causing them to be refugees still not being solved.

[madmanx]

No, even if all EU countries would take their share of those 50 million it would overload our infrastructure in an instant. It's just a "feel good" thing to want to accept a few but leave the rest in the mud. You don't actually help them when you take a few.



They're not the only immigrants you know.

How do you manage to get out of bed in the morning without falling on your face?