[TV] The Flash!

[apepi]

It really is. It's especially bad considering how short the gap was between her losing Ronnie to the big rift and then falling all over herself trying to impress Jay.

The writers really don't see how to do a subtle romance thing at all, that is there weak spot in writing. I really wanted Barry and Caitlin to get together :/.

The writers really don't know what to do with Caitlin. It sucks because she could be a great character.

It really sucks, she might have been my favorite character in season 1, but this last season it felt like they ruined her.

[CR77]

Well you can probably blame some of that on Robbie getting canned, even if he would have been off for Legends and not doing stuff with Caitlin her character would have stayed the same from S1 and wouldn't have this awkward crap with Jay.

[Ol Scratch]

I think he's just a cowardly type and it'll come out that he has had a few chances to stop Zoom and just froze up and ran away.

I still think it's less about being cowardly, and more that he knows who Zoom really is. And his desire to keep Barry away from him is less about the worry that he'll lose his Speed Force to Zoom just like Jay did, and more about how devastated Barry will be to learn who Zoom is (still thinking its either Barry himself or, more likely, his father).

[Khime]

It does feel forced to me, but also there's the problem that while she may have been grieving for 6 months, for the viewers it's pretty quick in first episode of the season and death is a flashback.

In the first season, episode 1, she'd been grieving 9 months and we didn't even get Ronnie's death-flashback until several episodes later. After finding out he was alive, but wishing she hadn't due to how he turned out, to then getting him back only for him to go to Pittsburgh for months, then returning long enough to marry her and then die... she barely had a few days with him out of their 'second chance' together, really. I think her finally moving on is a good thing.

On a different topic... I get the feeling we're going to discover that Zoom isn't really a speedster. He may have a metahuman ability to steal speed from other speedsters (or maybe even powers in general, he just happens to like speed), but he doesn't seem to be able to generate it on his own. Hence his desire for Barry to get faster before he takes it, so there's more to take, and why he kept his fights with Jay going for two years - he can't tap into the Speed Force directly, so needs proxies.

[Ol Scratch]

That's how Earth-1's Zoom operated; he had to generate Speed Force through a proxy. Earth-2's Zoom should -- emphasis on the word should -- actually be manipulating time, which is why he appears to be moving faster. Even though he obviously isn't, if the whole "stealing Speed Force" thing is accurate. Which we have no reason to think isn't.

It's like one of the writer's watched Jet Li's "The One" and decided that' be the best way to go with him. Which is kind of lame.

[Khime]

That's how Earth-1's Zoom operated; he had to generate Speed Force through a proxy. Earth-2's Zoom should -- emphasis on the word should -- actually be manipulating time, which is why he appears to be moving faster. Even though he obviously isn't, if the whole "stealing Speed Force" thing is accurate. Which we have no reason to think isn't.

Thing is, Eobard Thawn was originally a speedster who had his speed removed somehow by changing time (possibly because Barry Allen created the Speed Force as per one comic book storyline, so no Barry = no speed). And he'd started getting his speed back without stealing it from Barry, but he was indeed using external sources to recharge his cells (though imperfectly). Eobard was obviously faster than Barry each time they fought, though since his speed was unstable, he couldn't risk using it for time travel. We're not really certain that what they ended up doing (Barry going back in time while Eobard bubbled to the future) was Eobard's original plan or not, but it doesn't seem like he ever planned to steal Barry's speed; he just needed Barry fast enough to time travel so his own safe way home could be opened.

Zoom is acting more like a speed vampire than anything else, though. For Eobard, Barry's speed was a means to an end. For Zoom, Barry's speed is the goal.

[Svifnymr]

In the first season, episode 1, she'd been grieving 9 months and we didn't even get Ronnie's death-flashback until several episodes later. After finding out he was alive, but wishing she hadn't due to how he turned out, to then getting him back only for him to go to Pittsburgh for months, then returning long enough to marry her and then die... she barely had a few days with him out of their 'second chance' together, really. I think her finally moving on is a good thing.

I think mainly it's the pace. I mean, think back to season1 when she had little flirty moments with Barry. Sure it led nowhere, but it was more natural. The way she fell for Jay felt off.

On a different topic... I get the feeling we're going to discover that Zoom isn't really a speedster. He may have a metahuman ability to steal speed from other speedsters (or maybe even powers in general, he just happens to like speed), but he doesn't seem to be able to generate it on his own. Hence his desire for Barry to get faster before he takes it, so there's more to take, and why he kept his fights with Jay going for two years - he can't tap into the Speed Force directly, so needs proxies.

That could be a possibility, though I half remember something about Zoom having gone other places too? Not sure on that, maybe it was more of a "once done here, he might go to other earths!" or something.

- - - Updated - - -

Thing is, Eobard Thawn was originally a speedster who had his speed removed somehow by changing time (possibly because Barry Allen created the Speed Force as per one comic book storyline, so no Barry = no speed). And he'd started getting his speed back without stealing it from Barry, but he was indeed using external sources to recharge his cells (though imperfectly). Eobard was obviously faster than Barry each time they fought, though since his speed was unstable, he couldn't risk using it for time travel. We're not really certain that what they ended up doing (Barry going back in time while Eobard bubbled to the future) was Eobard's original plan or not, but it doesn't seem like he ever planned to steal Barry's speed; he just needed Barry fast enough to time travel so his own safe way home could be opened.

Zoom is acting more like a speed vampire than anything else, though. For Eobard, Barry's speed was a means to an end. For Zoom, Barry's speed is the goal.

Did they ever really explain why Thawne was spooked at Garricks helmet coming through?

Anyway, the power draining guy that Thawne drew blood from, perhaps he fits in somehow too.

[Khime]

Did they ever really explain why Thawne was spooked at Garricks helmet coming through?

No, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is more knowledge of alternate Earths in the future, so Eobard might've known about Earth-2.

[CR77]

Pretty sure Thawne knew a lot of stuff that he didn't let on, like the wormhole would have opened up and gone critical IF Barry had saved his mother regardless of making it back in time and closing it.(My opinion) He'll be back though, I'd bet money on it.

[Feredir]

Ive heard that the press report 3-4 episodes have been leaked.

3-4 episodes of what? The Flash?

[apepi]

Crap wrong thread, opps.

[Khime]

Pretty sure Thawne knew a lot of stuff that he didn't let on, like the wormhole would have opened up and gone critical IF Barry had saved his mother regardless of making it back in time and closing it.(My opinion) He'll be back though, I'd bet money on it.

If Thawne has known the wormhole would go critical if Barry saved his mother, then he never would have allowed Barry to do it. A singularity destroying the earth would've given him no future to return to.

[CR77]

If Thawne has known the wormhole would go critical if Barry saved his mother, then he never would have allowed Barry to do it. A singularity destroying the earth would've given him no future to return to.

The point that Thawne killed Nora became a splinter point for that timeline. Saving her would have had the same effect as Eddie killing himself because time would have to correct itself. As for him returning to the future, the future that he left may not even exist as he left it. In order for him to return to it, time would have to be corrected. This is my theory, and it doesn't really matter if I'm right or not because it will never be discussed on the show so eh. But you can't change the past like that without consequence, time wouldn't poof and change to what it should be. The timeline they are currently in should not exist.

[Svifnymr]

You're right that they don't seem likely to explain any of it.
Nora's death altered the timeline from the original, thus depriving Barry of his Flashness, and Thawne of his reversishness. But, I think both of them still existed in the timeline. So it was still possible for Thawne to be. Thus your splinter.

As opposed to Eddie killing himself, making Eobard a paradox. He couldn't exist, and things went off the rails.

I don't think the Flarrowverse has established time travel rules though. Even their often repeated thing about consequences of him jumping back 24hours really seems to not be a big deal.

[Jetstream]

That's how Earth-1's Zoom operated; he had to generate Speed Force through a proxy. Earth-2's Zoom should -- emphasis on the word should -- actually be manipulating time, which is why he appears to be moving faster. Even though he obviously isn't, if the whole "stealing Speed Force" thing is accurate. Which we have no reason to think isn't.

It's like one of the writer's watched Jet Li's "The One" and decided that' be the best way to go with him. Which is kind of lame.

Dude, seriously, he's not Hunter Zolomon. There have been a bunch of people called "Zoom" or "Reverse Flash," or the like throughout Flash. But he's obviously not Hunter Zolomon. Nothing of Hunter's MO is present.

[Kalcheus]

New Trailer!

[Gallahadd]

Ooooh man... Killer frost looks good.

but DAMN Earth2 Iris looks HHOOTTTTTTTTT! She also looks like she could be evil...

[Feredir]

ok...so who is Barry fighting at the end of the clip? It doesn't look like Zoom, its blurry but it looks like someone in another red costume, Wally perhaps?

[Khime]

ok...so who is Barry fighting at the end of the clip? It doesn't look like Zoom, its blurry but it looks like someone in another red costume, Wally perhaps?

It could've been a mirror duplicate. One of the new episodes does involve the introduction of the Mirror Master. That's also probably where the "Up is down, black is white, do not get distracted by anything you see along the way" quote comes from, even though they show it as a voice-over for a shot of Earth-2 so you're led to believe it's Jay warning them about Earth-2 and not the Mirrorverse.

[Khime]

So not only are we seeing the return of the Reverse Flash this month (episode 211, tentatively scheduled for 1/26), but now we learn we'll also be seeing Robbie Amell returning this season... as the Earth-2 Deathstorm!. Can't wait.