[6.2] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Astynax]

4 Piece is using Toothbreaker Grips as the offpiece.
2 Piece is using Toothbreaker Grips, Turret Mechanic's Legwraps and Earthripple Shoulderpads as the offpieces.
0 Piece is using Toothbreaker Grips, Turret Mechanic's Legwraps, Earthripple Shoulderpads, Eye-Catching Gilded Robe and Slagbomber's Hood as the offpieces (in this case in replace of all the tier pieces).

Why is the Toothbreaker Grips better as an offpiece than Turret Mechanic's Legwraps??
When you take Turret Legs + T17 Gloves (using 680 heroic values) you gain:
+23 Mastery
+318 Crit
-177 Multi
-164 Haste
over Toothbreaker gloves + T17 legs.

Wouldnt you want to max mastery if that's the top priority for secondaries?
Wouldnt Crit > Multi too since Crit also generates Imps from Doom, high proc rate = more reliable fury generation and max Imps spawned faster?

[Gaidax]

Is that with the 2 DB rotation or the 4 DB, also do you still use DS glyph with the 2 DB rotation

4 DB, I have no idea why people keep claiming that 2 DB is better, there is no evidence this is true, while the evidence to the contrary is a couple of clicks away in Simulationcraft.

The idea that with 2 DB you can use the rest of your fury for Soul Fire spam sounds good in theory, but in practice using up Molten Core procs means you generate less fury and do less DPS outside of meta too, which wipes out any advantage you gained.

2DB is only really viable sub 25% HP and by viable - it breaks even with 4DB, not better than that.

[Woz]

Why is the Toothbreaker Grips better as an offpiece than Turret Mechanic's Legwraps??
When you take Turret Legs + T17 Gloves (using 680 heroic values) you gain:
+23 Mastery
+318 Crit
-177 Multi
-164 Haste
over Toothbreaker gloves + T17 legs.

Wouldnt you want to max mastery if that's the top priority for secondaries?
Wouldnt Crit > Multi too since Crit also generates Imps from Doom, high proc rate = more reliable fury generation and max Imps spawned faster?

Either combination is within ~100 DPS of each other so it's extremely marginal, go with whatever drops first.

[Xorn]

Given the Serv/Serv rotation, do you guys think I should use the Heroic SoN and line it up with serve, or the Mythic QRS? I feel like the Mythic trinket might edge it out slightly, but if I got a Mythic SoN, I'm sure that would be the best choice until I get something else in BRF.

[Cyberthug32]

The serv/serv really has no rotation you just go into meta more often while procs are up and use your 2min cd's together.

I personally would rather play Demonbolt and lost 2-5k dps and have it be smooth rather than constantly watching to make sure you aren't missing a buff coming off cd and oh i forgot to pop my service Grim. etc...

[Woz]

Also wanted to note that I did some sim updates for the main post and was going to add a couple other things but currently sims showing GoSyn+DServ as best barely ahead of GoSyn+Cata...so getting that looked into 'cause it certainly shouldn't be considering in the previous Simcraft build (610-01) it most certainly was not better than GoServ+DServ.

For lols (this is very much probably extremely wrong).

[Unlockmyhrt]

Also wanted to note that I did some sim updates for the main post and was going to add a couple other things but currently sims showing GoSyn+DServ as best barely ahead of GoSyn+Cata...so getting that looked into 'cause it certainly shouldn't be considering in the previous Simcraft build (610-01) it most certainly was not better than GoServ+DServ.

For lols (this is very much probably extremely wrong).

Be nice if those were true, not much difference between the specs with the lowest being 30k and highest 33k

[Turturin the Warlock]

Be nice if those were true, not much difference between the specs with the lowest being 30k and highest 33k

I view 10% as significant, but to each his own.

[Unlockmyhrt]

I view 10% as significant, but to each his own.

Oh yeah it definently is if you are trying to min/max, no argument there

[Dietrik]

But that 10% can be made up with good player performance and maybe some luck...

I would like a 10% buff to demonbolt and i think we would be perfect. My problem is then crit, the more crit we get and the more reliable it becomes a big nuke like DB is hard to balance.

[Zevoa]

The serv/serv really has no rotation you just go into meta more often while procs are up and use your 2min cd's together.

I personally would rather play Demonbolt and lost 2-5k dps and have it be smooth rather than constantly watching to make sure you aren't missing a buff coming off cd and oh i forgot to pop my service Grim. etc...

Welcome to every class in the game.

Demonbolt is complete downs, I'm glad that all three are viable depending on encounter requirements now.

[KrazyK923]

So, I've played my Warlock for 9.5 years and I've never played Demonology ever, lol. I'm trying to learn now because apparently this is as best as we're going to get for probably most of WoD.

I have a really stupidly basic question. After I've gone through my opener and am back in caster form, what metric am I judging to know what time to re-enter Meta? A certain number of Fury? A certain amount of Molten Cores? Discounting Bloodlust, of course. Am I just dumb and you just get to max fury and have at it?

Forgive my dumb question.

[Count Zero]

So, I've played my Warlock for 9.5 years and I've never played Demonology ever, lol. I'm trying to learn now because apparently this is as best as we're going to get for probably most of WoD.

I have a really stupidly basic question. After I've gone through my opener and am back in caster form, what metric am I judging to know what time to re-enter Meta? A certain number of Fury? A certain amount of Molten Cores? Discounting Bloodlust, of course. Am I just dumb and you just get to max fury and have at it?

Forgive my dumb question.

What talents ?

[Rayaleith]

Why is the Toothbreaker Grips better as an offpiece than Turret Mechanic's Legwraps??
When you take Turret Legs + T17 Gloves (using 680 heroic values) you gain:
+23 Mastery
+318 Crit
-177 Multi
-164 Haste
over Toothbreaker gloves + T17 legs.

Wouldnt you want to max mastery if that's the top priority for secondaries?
Wouldnt Crit > Multi too since Crit also generates Imps from Doom, high proc rate = more reliable fury generation and max Imps spawned faster?

Yeah, I made the observation today before I go to work when I checked my mythic mission. I got the Mythic Turret Legs and found the stats really good. Now I have to get the heroic head tier next reset since we are only at 3/10 mythic atm (close to 4/10 ).

- - - Updated - - -

Well, I dare to say that I like demo more now that we escaped from DB grasp. I really really liked the damage of DB but it had ruined the demonology play imo. It is really flexible now. I like to go into demo for movement, procs, fury abundance than just DB spam. I have not tested the DBx2 (apart from our Blackhand HC farm which was strong) vs GoServ/DServ tbh in ST fights. And I don't know if I want to.

[KrazyK923]

What talents ?

I've been bouncing between Synergy/Cataclysm (Servitude on ST fights) on the advice of different people vs Service/Servitude on the advice of other peoples. Its mainly, "As I'm learning, do I want more buttons to push or less until I get the swing of it."

Not expecting (or even trying, yet) to min/max myself, just getting a feel for things and I realized as I was playing that I didn't know if there was some random, optimal level of fury/MC to get to for some math reason I am not aware of.

[VladimirM]

So, I've played my Warlock for 9.5 years and I've never played Demonology ever, lol. I'm trying to learn now because apparently this is as best as we're going to get for probably most of WoD.

I have a really stupidly basic question. After I've gone through my opener and am back in caster form, what metric am I judging to know what time to re-enter Meta? A certain number of Fury? A certain amount of Molten Cores? Discounting Bloodlust, of course. Am I just dumb and you just get to max fury and have at it?

Forgive my dumb question.

From what i have experienced combined with readin on this subforum:
there are 3 scenarios:
1) Your talent of choice is Demonbolt ->>>> second, third, fourth... entering of meta is ~810 fury
2) Your talent of choice is Cataclysm ->>>> when you have important procs (trinket, ring+weapon enchant) or if your doom is ready to be refreshed
3) Your talent of choice is Demonic Servitude ->>>>> Look up scenario 2.

Might be wrong, so stick for few more answers from better warlocks

[Count Zero]

I've been bouncing between Synergy/Cataclysm (Servitude on ST fights) on the advice of different people vs Service/Servitude on the advice of other peoples. Its mainly, "As I'm learning, do I want more buttons to push or less until I get the swing of it."

Bleed molten core stacks to prevent capping (10 stacks is the max). Whether in caster or meta depends on whether you need them to generate fury. How much fury you need depends a lot on how much you're generating as your pumping them out. Just off the top of my head I'd say you'd want to go into that burn with at least 7-800 fury, assuming you're generating some from those sources during the burn and also that you'll generate one or two molten core stacks.

In execute you don't have to worry about stacks so you'll also want at least 800 fury when you burn since you'll def be able to do 10+ soulfires.

If you're not bleeding molten cores but need to bleed fury to prevent fury capping just use ToC instead, keep the same fury thresholds in mind, unless you had really bad rng and have way less than 8 mc stacks going in. Not sure exactly but I think it'll be a similar amount of fury you'd want, ToC has about half the cast time (as an instant, vs around 2 seconds for an mc'd soulfire) but also half the fury cost (i think it's actually slightly more than half the cast time tho, but pretty close)

[Valthurak]

I've been meddling with the serv/serv build today and I've thought of ideas that need confirmation as well as questions that need answers.

1. What exactly affects the dps of grimoire: doomguard? I've found out that haste and DS does indeed increase the speed and damage. Going into meta with no other procs however, still increases the damage. Is this true? If so, will the damage revert back once I exit meta?

2. Since DS should be used in synergy with grimoire, we should stack MC so that we can cast it during DS phase. As SF costs 160fury/cast in meta, it is reasonable to assume the maximum number of SF that can be casted in 1 phase is 1000/160 = 6~. As such, we should be spending any excess MC stacks that we gain after 6 in caster form to increase of fury generation.

2a. We also need to keep in mind the amount of fury required to cast our SFs. This means that we should always have at least the amount of fury required to burn all our current stacks of SF. We can also agree that SF>ToC.

2b. To conclude, we should try to balance our fury and MC stacks so that we do not have excess fury that we need to burn via ToC or excess MC stacks that we cannot use in meta during a burn phase.

If fury is reaching cap limit and fury>MC , then: ToC
If MC>fury, then: SF in caster form

3. While using the AD talent without the glpyh of DS, we will have 2 stacks of DS at a 2min recharge. Since we should always have 1 DS to use every 2mins in conjunction with our grimoire and assuming that we cast grimoire on cd, am I wrong to say that we can only use our 2nd DS once per fight? Also, with procs lasting approx. 10seconds in general and casting 6 SFs do not require 20s, do we not want more frequent 10s DS rather than 20s? This way, we can utilise our 2nd DS more than once per fight. To conclude, should glyph of DS still be compulsory?

[Count Zero]

2. Since DS should be used in synergy with grimoire, we should stack MC so that we can cast it during DS phase. As SF costs 160fury/cast in meta, it is reasonable to assume the maximum number of SF that can be casted in 1 phase is 1000/160 = 6~. As such, we should be spending any excess MC stacks that we gain after 6 in caster form to increase of fury generation.

Molten core also halves the fury cost, plus you're still generating fury from corruption(s), imps, pet, shadowflame. So you could pump out 13/14 (with lust and/or other haste buffs) or so if you get lucky with MC procs while you're bleeding them out (or if you're in execute)

[helmetinthebush]

I've been meddling with the serv/serv build today and I've thought of ideas that need confirmation as well as questions that need answers.

2. Since DS should be used in synergy with grimoire, we should stack MC so that we can cast it during DS phase. As SF costs 160fury/cast in meta, it is reasonable to assume the maximum number of SF that can be casted in 1 phase is 1000/160 = 6~. As such, we should be spending any excess MC stacks that we gain after 6 in caster form to increase of fury generation.

2a. We also need to keep in mind the amount of fury required to cast our SFs. This means that we should always have at least the amount of fury required to burn all our current stacks of SF. We can also agree that SF>ToC.

dots ticking , imps dmg = fury generates in meta. so more than 6.