[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Floopa]

Why are you even talking about the loss of secondaries? Hello all the good crit/ms jewellery has spirit on it, and spirit is not a bad stat. In fact static spirit is insanely powerful next patch.

The only debate in gearing right now, is blackhand int trinket vs blackhand spirit trinket. Ele tailsman was already the BiS trinket. I honestly don't think with 1750 spirit, you have to go for dual regen trinkets to get old mana tea values.

The only other thing you could make a choice between was a spirit crit vs haste ms cloak. And the spirit crit is better. Especially post mana tea nerf.

do you think my assertions are wrong too?

most of my issue comes with the nerf to mana while we are still sporting HM gear. we are not going to be progressing with BiS BRF gear, or even close to full BRF gear. thats where it'll hurt most, and unfortunately where it matters most imo.

[Clausi]

Mana Tea Notification - When you cap on Mana Tea at the moment nothing happens. The bar just sits there full up and if you don't happen to be looking at it then you won't know that it's capped. I would like there to be some subtle notification to say "Hey, you should probably take a sip right about now." I've not been happy with anything that I've tried so far. If someone has a suggestion that isn't just another flashing icon on your screen then I'm all ears.

Perhaps make the bar glow when mana tea caps?

Chi Brew / Power Strikes - They just don't fit easily into the current layout. I'm pretty much done with the ability to add icons to the WA without it looking bloated. I'm toying with the idea of displaying Chi Brew like a 'reserve' Chi Bar behind the current bar but I think that might look too cluttered? I also think Power Strikes probably doesn't need to be included at all. Do people micro-manage it so much that they use WAs for it? I'm happy to not include it.

PS CD/buff uptime can be a small thin bar below the chibar, make it only a few pixels
If there is enough space make CB a small icon to take place within the chi bar, I am doing this on my ww setup to replace to last chi from ascension.

Tiger's Lust + Breath of the Serpent - Both part of talent tiers where the other two talents aren't tracked, so it's not easy to just slot them in without throwing off the symmetry of the whole thing (this is important to me for reasons).

Hm hard one ... What if you make that revival icon only half height and the BotS the other half? Don't know if it looks good.
No idea about TL

Finally, a couple of questions:

When you use other people's Weakauras do you want them to be all inclusive or completely modular? Say I threw in something that tracked if you had your statue up or down. Would you just want this to be part of the whole package or as a separate import so you could choose to have it or not have it.

I like it how sunnier presents her brewmaster weakaura, http://sunniersartofwar.com/brewmaster-weak-auras/ You can pick every piece on its own.
She also provides a savedvariable of her weakaura with all icons included, but I never used it, because it would overwrite my other WAs

[Buildapanda]

Posting this here (rather than the WA thread) because they aren't finished and aren't ready to use but I could use some innovation help to make them better and more functional. Trying to make some pretty all inclusive weakauras that are compact and functional. I stole the layout from the Shaman thread; I don't think they knew how perfect their Maelstrom Weapon layout was for a Chi Bar. Here is a quick example of what you are looking at:



What you've got is your icons built around a chi bar. Blue bar at the bottom is tracking Mana Tea. If it's empty then you aint got no mana tea. If it's full then you're capped. Everything of course swaps around, so if you've got Chi Wave instead of Chi Burst then they take up the same spot. Same for Dampen Harm and Diffuse Magic. The number in the middle of RM is obviously it's cooldown, the second number in the top right is your charges if you have PoM talented.

Here is what is missing that I would like to include but kind of need second eyes to help me think of a smart way to do it:

Mana Tea Notification - When you cap on Mana Tea at the moment nothing happens. The bar just sits there full up and if you don't happen to be looking at it then you won't know that it's capped. I would like there to be some subtle notification to say "Hey, you should probably take a sip right about now." I've not been happy with anything that I've tried so far. If someone has a suggestion that isn't just another flashing icon on your screen then I'm all ears.

Chi Brew / Power Strikes - They just don't fit easily into the current layout. I'm pretty much done with the ability to add icons to the WA without it looking bloated. I'm toying with the idea of displaying Chi Brew like a 'reserve' Chi Bar behind the current bar but I think that might look too cluttered? I also think Power Strikes probably doesn't need to be included at all. Do people micro-manage it so much that they use WAs for it? I'm happy to not include it.

Tiger's Lust + Breath of the Serpent - Both part of talent tiers where the other two talents aren't tracked, so it's not easy to just slot them in without throwing off the symmetry of the whole thing (this is important to me for reasons).

RoP, COW, Leg Sweep - Not important enough to get prime screen real estate but I like to play with everything keybound and no visible action bars so I'll have to track it somehow. I think things like this and Tiger's Lust will probably just have to go into a separate WA that people can choose to have or not have if they want it.

There are also a few things that are not included that I will probably never include. I don't think I will ever rework the whole thing to accommodate for Ascension. It also doesn't do anything with Healing Elixirs because I don't think anyone actually uses it. If they do and it needs to be tracked somehow then I'll include it but eh... If you happened to have Healing Elixirs talented then you'd have a gap in the WA where Diffuse Magic/Dampen Harm sits so I might as well put SOMETHING there.

Finally, a couple of questions:

When you use other people's Weakauras do you want them to be all inclusive or completely modular? Say I threw in something that tracked if you had your statue up or down. Would you just want this to be part of the whole package or as a separate import so you could choose to have it or not have it.

Am I missing anything that you think would be awesome to have tracked but haven't seen anybody else do yet?

Thanks for the help!

EDIT: Oh and the reason I'm asking rather than just using another icon is because I would like it to take up the least amount of screen space as possible.

One thing I see most chi trackers missing that I really enjoy on something like arcanometer for my mage is a chi bar that slowly gets smaller based on the time until that chi expires.

[Theurgie]

@Sixteenmiles

TYVM for doing something like this. I was wondering instead of having the bottom blue bar represent Mana Tea, how about it represent our mana and have Mana Tea Icon on the left of the bar with a # telling us how many Mana Tea we have. Just food for thought, this would be the only change I would do.

Also, yes to your question about having an icon to remind you to put down your Serpent Statue, maybe have this on the right or left depending on personal preference.

GJ and can't wait until its released.

[Totaltotemic]

wasn't there just a discussion a couple pages back that turned into an elitist debate about the class that the only discussion and balance that mattered was mythic raiding? Why is it all of a sudden a problem now that low lvl MW and pvp, and CM's will be underpowered? MW seems pretty damned balanced to me(at least balanced in terms of what blizzard wants) going into mythic brf. I'm happy they are bringing up our minimum potential by helping out some of our lesser used talents.

I just wanted to touch on this briefly since it does seem hypocritical when you first look at it.

There's a caveat added to "balance only really matters in high end arena and Mythic raiding", which is that "...while each spec can still function well enough in each other game activity." I don't know if you played in Vanilla or BC, but there were times when DPS specs or tank specs would be literally worthless and couldn't even stumble through a 5 man dungeon. Even until recently (and still for some, we see being fixed in 6.1) most healers could barely do quests on their own because they might do 10% of the damage of a tank or a DPS.

As long as everyone is within a good 10-20% of everyone else, people can generally do the content outside of the hardest stuff, and if they can't it's because of their own skill not being enough more than class balance.

This change doesn't even actually accomplish anything at the hardest difficulty, and makes arena/BG/dungeons/even normal mode raids extremely difficult for MWs to even come close to anyone else. It's one thing for MW to be kind of bad at CMs, because at least if you have a stacked group you can afford to have one weak point, but it's not okay for MW to be so bad that it might be actually impossible to get Gold times because of having to stop and drink when you need to pull at a certain pace. Similarly, it's okay for MW to be kind of bad at PvP, but if they would run out of mana when no other healers ever run out of mana (at least until heavy Dampening), then they'd be entirely unviable instead of just bad.

[Monkioh]

this is the problem:

imagine all healers heal for X (this isn't true, but imagine it is)

now blizzard nerf monk mana regen so they can no longer heal for X in their gear

they have to drop throughput for regen in order to keep healing for X

meanwhile all other healers (resto druids slightly excluded) can continue stacking throughput, while ignoring regen, and they heal for X+Y

why would you bring the healer(s) healing for X when you could bring the healers healing for X+Y

this is why this change is dumb. if you are going to nerf mana on 1 spec, nerf it on every other spec which doesn't care for mana.

of course i may be completely wrong, and this isn't how it's gonna be. but this is what i imagine it will be like, hence i said our only "raid viability" will come in the form of using crane to do as much dps as possible while still healing for relatively competitive values (WHICH IS STUPID FUCKING DESIGN AND RUINS THE GAME)

Aren't "throughput" and "heal for X" the same thing here? We measure throughput by how much healing can be done. If you're dropping, for example, Haste for Spirit to maintain that X value, then your throughput has not changed. You only changed how you got to that value, not the value itself.

[Deleted]

Aren't "throughput" and "heal for X" the same thing here? We measure throughput by how much healing can be done. If you're dropping, for example, Haste for Spirit to maintain that X value, then your throughput has not changed. You only changed how you got to that value, not the value itself.

No, throughput is the amount of healing you can do in a given time. Spirit only effects throughput by allowing you to cast more expensive spells more often, allowing more effective AoE casts, and so on. How good spirit is directly relates to how well you can translate extra mana into extra healing, Monks were (still are?) notoriously shit at this.

If you're dropping stats to get to where you were in this patch regen-wise, then it's going to be equivalent to just not having those stats in this patch.

One benefit of this approach is that less time will be used on Mana Tea, though that's hardly a gain unless you're awful at timing it or in a fight with constant damage.

[Deleted]

I think what Floopa means is that for a throughput healer, without specialising in absorbs or the like, this is a net loss of capacity. To maintain the same HPS with less mana would require more primary/secondary stats. By reducing the mana return from tea, and its that mana that permits the casting behaviour, we either cast less of our expensive HPS casts (e.g. RJW or CJL), cheap but spammable casts (Surging) or maintain current behaviour and OoM significantly faster. Dropping crit or MS for spirit would mean the total amount of healing done would stay the same, but the HPS or active throughput would be lower (as reduced HPM). So if our role is to provide good raw healing in a timely fashion then we are less able to do so with the proposed change. Whether that change was necessary because we were too good at managing our mana using Crane stance is another matter and we needed something to bring us into line... though if we go down, the others should go down with us

E: beat me to it!

- - - Updated - - -

How good spirit is directly relates to how well you can translate extra mana into extra healing, Monks were (still are?) notoriously shit at this.

I think I was moaning about this a while back - we don't really use extra mana efficiently. RJW is great, but other than spamming Surging to power more Uplifts what else can we actually do with the mana?

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I complain that no one ever double-checks my math, so for the sake of not being a hypocrite (lol):



Corrections in bold & underlined.

So basically what I get from this:
In BiS crit levels (~20%)
-Right now Crane generates 13.2% max mana per minute including passive regen
-On PTR you break even at 0% max mana per minute at 1261 Spirit, +3.17% max mana per minute for each 100 Spirit above that
-On PTR that's 1677 Spirit to be back at 13.2% max mana per minute

So basically Blizz broke PvP and CMs for a Crane Stance change that wasn't even effective at nerfing Crane regen. Yaaaaaaaay!

Thanks Geodew, just wanted to make sure I'd not made any massive clangers. The thing that surprised me most, other than breaking even at a lower value than expected, was just how big the difference between extra spirit and extra crit was on mana regen.

Prior to DR you'd said for 6.0 110 spirit => 13.64 spirit
Now in 6.1 its a bit trickier due to their interaction, but at 1600 spirit 1% crit (110) is now only worth +5.99 spirit and at 2000 its still only +7.28 spirit. So for most of t17 crit is going to be half or less of the mana benefit compared to 6.0

[Deleted]

In First Place hello everyone , I am looking with recent changes to the monk and talents so far never used in PvE during the progression of Highmaul I would like to propose that on the main page " Mistweavers of Draenor : A Guide to PvE Healing [ 6.0 ] "I would have a section on " tips and tricks "like other classes have , let me explain by example :

Boss
Gruul / Recomendations :
LvL 30 Chi Burst : for AoE heal when " x habilities hits raid"
LvL 45 Chi Brew: Use it For Burst healing when " ... "
LvL 90 Chi Torpedo : When Combined With Chi burst "..." for fast heal
LvL 100 Chi Explosion : Use it with 4 With Chi chi combined detonation for aoe heal , meanwhile use it with 2 or 3 chi on tanks or mele

this is only an example not the real talents and tricks for this encounter but I want you may understand what I mean, it would be well to add because many of us have many questions when choosing talents and how to properly use them in the face a new boss , especially to people who have tested the beta and during these days in the PTR contribute as others i have seen and know that the placement of each raid and the role that your raidlider you to play in the encounter can you vary your choice of talents, one might make a point for these cases, for example: If in this boss u have to do a special roll u should take this ; stacking marks you should take "X "

And good as monkioh is the author of the post and has considerable experience testing the boses since beta , I would like to know what you think of all this of course all of you too , obviously this is to face Blackrock Foundry Raid

[isRobin]

With the buff to Chi Explosion. At 4 Chi, we are looking at a 1875.75% SP instant cast spell compared to our 1980% Uplift. The benefit of uplift is more SP and spread healing compared to Chi explosion which HEAVILY benefits from 2pc instant cast burst heal. Keep in mind only 1275.75 is actually being bursted while the other 600% comes from the 8 healing spheres.

[Supliftz]

With the buff to Chi Explosion. At 4 Chi, we are looking at a 1875.75% SP instant cast spell compared to our 1980% Uplift. The benefit of uplift is more SP and spread healing compared to Chi explosion which HEAVILY benefits from 2pc instant cast burst heal. Keep in mind only 1275.75 is actually being bursted while the other 600% comes from the 8 healing spheres.

btw I'm 99% sure the 40% buff affects the healing spheres. The Healing sphere healing is counted as Chi Explosion healing.

[Floopa]

i'm actually loving these set bonuses for dps btw. they make the rotations so much easier.

game basically plays itself, pretty fun. can't wait to dps as MW on progress while watching tele

[Supliftz]

pretty sure I said 2pc/4pc were insane for crane all the way back in beta!

I would of hoped people didn't forget :_:

[Floopa]

pretty sure I said 2pc/4pc were insane for crane all the way back in beta!

I would of hoped people didn't forget :_:

you gotta remember the set bonuses are complete trash for MW tho

but i guess doing almost 20k makes up for it idk.

[Supliftz]

2pc is not trash if you're using chiex lol.

[Floopa]

mmm i feel like CE is very clunky to use

like, you build 4 chi then you soothe and then you have to kinda ... wait for the MS bonus to go up up up and then it needs to be at the right time blah blah

idk maybe im being overly critical.

(on a side note i keep getting boe butcher gloves from my mythic cache which is very annoying because i sell them when i really should equip them...)

[Eggye]

mmm i feel like CE is very clunky to use

like, you build 4 chi then you soothe and then you have to kinda ... wait for the MS bonus to go up up up and then it needs to be at the right time blah blah

idk maybe im being overly critical.

(on a side note i keep getting boe butcher gloves from my mythic cache which is very annoying because i sell them when i really should equip them...)

Hmm im on ptr and the instant CE on soothing change isnt working for me. Is it possible to be on the wrong ptr build?

[Totaltotemic]

Hmm im on ptr and the instant CE on soothing change isnt working for me. Is it possible to be on the wrong ptr build?

CE change isn't in yet. Neither are most of the talent changes, or Mana Tea being 3x Spirit instead of 4x.

[Eggye]

CE change isn't in yet. Neither are most of the talent changes, or Mana Tea being 3x Spirit instead of 4x.

ah makes sense

[burmaben]

are you guys using revival for fire or shadow on koragh? not sure which is worse anymore ><