[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[borisshayo]

This probably has been discussed a lot before but I couldn't find anything in this thread. Can anyone explain how the 2pc actually works? "Every time your Soothing Mist heals a target your multistrike chance is increased by 5%." For what duration? Untill you stop casting soothing? Does it stack? I really hate how unclear a lot of stuff is in this game. Like the hidden mastery scalars that you wouldn't even know exist unless you do extenal research...

[Volibear]

I believe it's while you're channelling.

[Deleted]

While you channel, you gain stacks that last until you stop channeling your soothing mist. When you switch target, the stacks are also lost as far as i remember.
It still is crazy strong because all your ReM out there and esp. your singletarget healing gets boosted heavily... Channeling gave like 30 to 40% MS before the channel finishes

[Leblue]

How the 2 piece is supposed to work:

(2) Set (Mistweaver): Every time your Soothing Mist heals a target your multistrike chance is increased by 5%. Consuming a 5 stack of Vital Mists generates 1 Chi.

Basically maintaining channeling increases your multistrike (keeping in mind this buffs your statue that's firing around like a laser show and any other passive healing you're doing during this channel). The buff is *supposed* to fall off when you stop channeling but in beta it wasn't so you had the hilarity of mistweavers goofing off with ludicrous amounts of multistrike in raid testing. The purpose of this is to synergize with your 4 piece which is:

(4) Set (Mistweaver): Surging Mist multistrikes cause your next Thunder Focus Tea to generate 1 Chi. Stacks up to 2 times.

Since you channel soothing, get higher multistrike, causes you to "max out" on this benefit.

Whether they fixed it or not remains to be seen but iirc there was no actual timer on the buff from it though I can check some of my beta testing footage. The lack of a timer is evidence suggesting that its only while you're channeling.

For the sake of confirming how it actually works though a few questions to answer once we can actually get a hold of the sets in BRF I'd say need to be answered are:

Can you switch targets and maintain the buff?

If yes, is there a grace period (i.e. can you cast a ReM and then go back to soothing like it was in beta) associated with it?

If there is a grace period, how long is it? (Again in beta there wasn't an actual time on the buff from memory).

The existence of a grace period of this buff could lead to potential abuse for a pretty big increase in hps if you can find times to get off a full channel of Soothing.

Mistweavers were in no way weak going into WoD. People who said this didn't read 995% uplift and god tier revival.

Somewhere people missed the memo (potentially cause they flat out stopped paying attention to MWs) where MW throughput got buffed after ChiEx got nerfed to the ground. Then before the tier even released they buffed MWs even more through their raid cooldown (it is now officially raid lay on hands even in the new environment) and Enveloping Mist. Then for giggles Life Cocoon got a pretty sizeable buff helping it already be strong against certain mechanics and as a life saving tool.

Total you and I were tweeting about this, but this could potentially fall into the "old guard" category of people not wanting to ditch tried and true healers unless it turns out Mistweavers are godly and/or whatever class they were playing is completely in the pooper and incredibly far behind in every aspect.

[Deleted]

When i last did the highmaul nhc testing, the buff fell off right after you stopped channeling, they fixed that

1) As far as i remember you cant switch and maintain the buff

2) got fixed at the end of beta

[Supliftz]

Talking about set bonuses. Honestly 4pc is so minor for serpent, it might be better to wear off pieces.

Although 4pc is pstrong for crane (same w/ 2pc)

EDIT: jk offpieces for shoulder/helm etc are kinda bad when compared to tier

[Floopa]

soothing mist beta bug was fixed on beta yeh

idk the 4pc is pretty shitty for serpent but it's better than the offpieces iirc

[Geodew]

- - - LAST UPDATED 12-28-14 - - -
Bottom line at the top:

Intellect: 1.85
Spellpower: 1.68
Spirit (to comfort, with RJW): 1.41
Spirit (to comfort, with SCK): 1.34
Multistrike: 1.09
Haste (GCD limited): 1.05
Crit (to Spirit comfort, with RJW): 1.01
Crit (to Spirit comfort, with SCK): 1.00
Versatility (4 healers): 0.91
Crit (beyond Spirit comfort, with RJW): 0.86
Crit (beyond Spirit comfort, with SCK): 0.85
Mastery (100% pickup rate): 0.63
Haste (Mana limited, RJW): 0.51
Haste (Mana limited, SCK): 0.49
Mastery (typical pickup rate): 0.34
Spirit (beyond comfort, with RJW): 0.28
Spirit (beyond comfort, with SCK): 0.27

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIMPLE VERSION for those less familiar with the spec and theorycraft:

Intellect: 1.85
Spellpower: 1.68
Spirit (to comfort breakpoint (TBD but very, very high)): 1.38
Multistrike: 1.09
Crit (to Spirit comfort breakpoint): 1.01
Versatility: 0.91
Crit (beyond Spirit comfort breakpoint): 0.86
Haste: 0.50
Mastery: 0.34
Spirit (beyond breakpoint): 0.28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


...............trimmed quote..................


- - - Updated - - -

A more accurate Crit weight (Added 12-28-14)
We now have the data on Mana Tea and the value of GCDs (from calculating Haste), which we lose from channeling additional Mana Tea, and the value of additional mana (from calculating Spirit). With these, we can calculate a more accurate crit weight from the fact that it causes additional Mana Tea generation.

In the section for crit, we estimated that the mana gain added 5% value to crit, which put its stat weight at 0.84196*(1+0.05) = 0.88. With only 700 crit rating, as we elaborated on in the Versatility section, the DR coefficient becomes 0.87442, yielding 0.92.

We estimated, seemingly correctly, that we generate 6.06 stacks of Mana Tea per minute in Level 100 WoD raids. Note that this estimate included an estimate of current crit chance levels, so we’ll need to take that out: 6.06/1.15 = 5.27 Mana Tea per minute at 0% crit, which now makes it affected by Diminishing Returns. +1% stacks (from 110 crit rating) is +0.0527 Mana Tea stacks per minute, which is 337.25 mana per minute, which is 28.10 mp5, which is equivalent to 13.64 Spirit. Note that this is true no matter what your crit chance is: The percentage gain of Mana Tea stacks has diminishing returns with Crit Chance, but that’s irrelevant; the mana gain (and thus equivalent Spirit) remains the same at all crit levels. Since the value of Crit now depends on the value of Spirit, we’ll have four crit weights for above/below comfort level and talented RJW/SCK.

However, this mana gain comes with a penalty that we need to spend an additional 0.5s channeling the additional Mana Tea stack, about 50% of which is channeled when the raid is topped off, so effectively 0.25 seconds. This is (1+Haste%)*0.25/1.5 GCDs per Mana Tea stack, which is (1+Haste%)*(0.25/1.5)*0.0527 GCDs per minute. Each minute contains (1+Haste%)*60/1.5 GCDs, so that’s an additional 100*[((0.25/1.5)*0.0527)/40]% = 0.022% GCDs. This is equivalent to losing 0.022 GCDs out of every 100, or (sort of) a loss of 0.022% Haste (except the bonus to HoT healing), which is equivalent to 2.2 Haste Rating. However, since this is a GCD loss, and not an actual Haste loss, we need to calculate the value of a GCD, not the value of Haste. We can do this by recalculating the value of “Haste” as if it (1) didn’t provide a bonus to HoTs, (2) had no Diminishing Returns (since this is a percentage GCD loss independent of current Haste levels), and (3) was not increased by the 5% Haste raid buff. For the GCD limited case (case a), we argued that number (1) was irrelevant, but we will remove it from the mana limited case (case b), at least.

Previously (Real Haste):
Case (a): 1.05*0.92473*1.01*(110/100)/(1.0252*1.000642) = 1.05
Case (b): 1.05*0.92473*1.01*[((38.81*X)/165.8)/1.0252 + (110/100)*(0.176)] where X is 1.41 for RJW or 1.34 for SCK (= 0.51 RJW, 0.49 SCK)

Becomes (GCD only, no DR):
Case (a): 1.01*(110/100)/(1.0252*1.000642) = 1.08
Case (b): 1.01*[((38.81*X)/165.8)/1.0252] where X is 1.41 for RJW or 1.34 for SCK (= 0.33 RJW, 0.31 SCK)

Thus, we then subtract the value of 2.2 “Haste” Rating using the new “GCD” weights from the value of the original 110 crit. Altogether, this yields the following:

Base weight (has DR): 1.0
Bonus from mana (no DR): Equivalent to +13.64 Spirit per 110 Crit, using standard Spirit stat weights
Penalty from GCDs channeling Mana Tea (no DR): Equivalent to -2.2 Haste per 110 Crit, using “GCD” stat weights

Breaking that down further (using BiS crit level, putting base stat weights in brackets for readability):
Crit (to Spirit comfort, with RJW): 0.84196*[1.00] + (13.64*[1.41]/110) - (2.2*[0.33]/110) = 1.01
Crit (to Spirit comfort, with SCK): 0.84196*[1.00] + (13.64*[1.34]/110) - (2.2*[0.31]/110) = 1.00
Crit (beyond Spirit comfort, with RJW): 0.84196*[1.00] + (13.64*[0.28]/110) - (2.2*[1.08]/110) = 0.86
Crit (beyond Spirit comfort, with SCK): 0.84196*[1.00] + (13.64*[0.27]/110) - (2.2*[1.08]/110) = 0.85

This actually indicates that Crit is slightly better than we thought because the mana gain is a bit more in quantity and value than we expected previously. This moves Crit above Versatility, even with low quantities of Versatility, indicating that we can drop the “about 700 rating” balancing shenanigans and go back to Versatility’s true weight in the BiS, which had only 128 Versatility rating. If you recall, Versatility’s calculated weight with its original DR was (4 healers) 0.81376*(1.03 + 0.090929) = 0.912


.....trimmed.....


Conclusion: Everything is mostly as expected.

Versatility is slightly higher than we thought it would be in previous discussion because of low Diminishing Returns compared to ms/crit as well as the nontrivial amount of value gained from the damage reduction. It’s high enough that it becomes more throughput that Crit in the event that you don’t need the mana from Crit’s bonus Mana Tea stacks.


.....trimmed.....


Can do a more accurate MS weight when I get some time (by estimating the healing percentage gain from reduced overhealing with Uplift). Also want to do Tertiary stat weights.

See quote above for Stat Weight OP error corrections (in particular one large one in Mana-limited Haste that I finally nailed down), and increased accuracy of many estimations, many of which were in revelation of a high quantity of Heroic and Mythic Highmaul logs now being available. The most important changes are quoted above, but NOT all of them, as you may have already noticed.

[Supliftz]

^ probably as accurate as it gets.

TL;DR of that, if your gear doesn't have mastery and if you have a healthy amount of spirit. You're doing it right.

[Geodew]

^ probably as accurate as it gets.

TL;DR of that, if your gear doesn't have mastery and if you have a healthy amount of spirit. You're doing it right.

Unfortunately, Mastery is looking pretty unavoidable in BRF for BiS, according to AMR. From gear (no buffs):

1,849 Multistrike
1,295 Crit
912 Spirit
306 Mastery
299 Haste
128 Versatility

This is compared to the literal zero Mastery I have right now using BiS BoEs.

[cqwrteur]

Spirit (to comfort, with RJW): 1.41
Spirit (to comfort, with SCK): 1.34

President Geodew. I have an idea about spirit.
I don't think spirit is 1.41 or 1.34.
My idea:
Spirit should achieve to the "infinitely use soothing-mist and renewing-mist (I remember the point is 3096 spirit)" or "infinitely use soothing-mist ,renewing-mist and expel-harm ( about 3600 spirit? )". Achieving this point will make you not lose "dot" healing. When you no mana at this point, well, just soothing ,renewing and slowly uplift, you will not lose much healing.

Multistrike: 1.09

And don't forget multistrike give us a cheaper chi generator (more REMs) than soothing-surging-surging or RJW, and reduce channeling. This is very important I think.

[Geodew]

Does anyone have an updated Uplift Estimate for WA? I'm just learning how to code so I'm gonna take a whack at it but thought I'd ask just incase I just completely missed it.

Edit: Future readers, read this quote below, too. Where I quote myself.

I made my own edited version to dynamically measure overheal, but I'll want to make sure it's updated for WoD spellpower values before I proliferate an incorrect WA. Will get back to you.

Edit:

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Here's what it looks like:



First number: Effectiveness of Uplift, in terms of target count (range 0.00 to 6.00)
Second number: Effectiveness of Uplift, in terms of target count, if it didn't have a target cap (range 0.00 to 40.00 (max raid size))
Third number: Number of ReMs active (range 0 to 40 (max raid size))

The second number is for giving a hint of how close you are to overhealing, which I find useful since Uplift now has a cast time. For example, 13.00 is almost surely not going to overheal, where 6.30 will overheal soon. The first number is NOT the same as the second but just capped at 6.00. For example, if Uplift heals 20k normally and you have ReM on 12 people, half of which are missing 20k and the other half missing 5k HP, Uplift will heal all 12 players for 10k, so the first number will be 4.50, but the second number will be 7.50.

Note that this only observes party/raid members, not all friendly units, due to WoW LUA API limitations. Good luck with that world PvP. ;P

I edited my original post for people who are still reading through. I (heavily) edited and tested the above Weak Aura, originally by ccKep, to use WoD spellpower values and the target cap. I also didn't give a shit how much my most recent Uplift healed for, so I stopped displaying that. If you liked to see that, you can go in there and add the display yourself and uncomment the function call. Most of the code is still there, it's just never called.

- - - Updated - - -

President Geodew. I have an idea about spirit.
I don't think spirit is 1.41 or 1.34.
My idea:
Spirit should achieve to the "infinitely use soothing-mist and renewing-mist (I remember the point is 3096 spirit)" or "infinitely use soothing-mist ,renewing-mist and expel-harm ( about 3600 spirit? )". Achieving this point will make you not lose "dot" healing. When you no mana at this point, well, just soothing ,renewing and slowly uplift, you will not lose much healing.

I'm not sure I understand your post here, but it sounds like you're talking more about where the comfort level is than Spirit's stat weight. An exact number would be impossible to calculate anyway because the amount of downtime where the raid is topped off is nonzero and varies by fight. That's part of why it's left for the reader to determine what the comfort level is for them. Some fights have burst damage followed by longer periods of no damage, where other fights have near-constant damage in lower quantities. You cannot realistically cast SooM infinitely because you'll 100% overheal at some point. In addition, those spirit caps depend on your T30 talent selections, which are free. You could also choose Chi Torpedo and lower the cap further, which is separate from the fact that the SCK weight is lower; the SCK weight is lower because SCK is less mana-efficient than RJW, so a fixed amount of additional mana gives less additional healing.

And don't forget multistrike give us a cheaper chi generator (more REMs) than soothing-surging-surging or RJW, and reduce channeling. This is very important I think.

That's something I would use if I weren't already estimating the value of Jade Mists entirely, yeah. I'll edit the tidbit at the end to indicate that for calculating a more accurate MS weight. The mana costs are fairly close, though. Surging Mist is a lot cheaper this expansion.

[TeeNaku]

@Geodew I actually really like the concept of it the weak aura in your post, I havn't spent a lot of time working with weakauras myself but i was wondering what it would take to change the number to a bar that filled and then maybe filled a second time (in a different color) for the numbers over 6 so i could put it off on the top or side of my screen and just let the colors in my peripheral be the indicator instead of reading a number.

[Geodew]

@Geodew I actually really like the concept of it the weak aura in your post, I havn't spent a lot of time working with weakauras myself but i was wondering what it would take to change the number to a bar that filled and then maybe filled a second time (in a different color) for the numbers over 6 so i could put it off on the top or side of my screen and just let the colors in my peripheral be the indicator instead of reading a number.

I'm not sure. My experience with LUA extends only to this one WeakAura. The way this one works is that you just pass in a string that you want it to display.

[Athelan]

Love the discussion here and the respectful tone you guys seem to have. As someone who wants to roll a monk and more specifically a MW (I just think its an interesting healer) is this guide still the best starting point? Do I need to plan on leveling to 100 with another spec and switching to MW only for dungeons etc?

[Volibear]

You can level fine as MW, I did it. Just make use of Touch of Death, especially on rares.

[Yunaqt]

Personally I would recommend Leveling as windwalker, it is doable as Mistweaver but gets a bit slow from 96 when touch of deaths on cd.

[Monkioh]

Love the discussion here and the respectful tone you guys seem to have. As someone who wants to roll a monk and more specifically a MW (I just think its an interesting healer) is this guide still the best starting point? Do I need to plan on leveling to 100 with another spec and switching to MW only for dungeons etc?

If there's anything in the guide that you doesn't make sense or just seems confusing, ask about it. We'd be glad to help you figure it out. And if you plan to level by questing, then you'd be better off doing it as Windwalker. Mistweaver can quest solo, but it is much slower than the other two specs. On the other hand, you could do a lot of your leveling through dungeons before level 90, then swap to Windwalker after 90 where you'll have to do a fair amount of quests.

[Athelan]

If there's anything in the guide that you doesn't make sense or just seems confusing, ask about it. We'd be glad to help you figure it out. And if you plan to level by questing, then you'd be better off doing it as Windwalker. Mistweaver can quest solo, but it is much slower than the other two specs. On the other hand, you could do a lot of your leveling through dungeons before level 90, then swap to Windwalker after 90 where you'll have to do a fair amount of quests.

This would be my 4th character to 100 so I will do whatever works in terms of being fastest. Edit: I also may bump a 90 I don't know I do have 2 pieces of heirloom leather tho

[Geodew]

Is the candle still considered BIS even when blackrock comes out?

Nope, but it was before they nerfed the 20k to 10k.

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How do those stat weights work? is it basically stat weight x amount of stat = highest wins?

Yes, and that's how all stat weights work

I ended up getting a heroic cache with a "Shards of Nothing" trinket (263 Int, 1537 haste on use clicky), but im reluctant to drop my 159 multistrike/spirit trinket from heroic dungeons lol.. however the new trinket has about 57 more points when i weigh the stats so i should use it eh?

470 trinket: 449.73
430 trinket: 392.72

Yeah, that's a lot of Int, and you can time the haste clicky with hard parts FTW