[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Magicmooch]

So is there like a soft haste cap that MW should be shooting for pre-2pc/4pc?

[Nokcihc]

Lately half of this thread is about that..

Probably but I only usually read like a page back and I didn't see anything haha.

I didnt explain that well. What Im saying is that if u generate and spend Chi properly your mana wont go down and you will be able to do more in the same amount of time. (through whole encounter)

Haste is just going to be a good stat all around regardless because it just makes us heal faster and our HoTs tick more. Yes, if you're managing your chi and mana tea correctly you shouldn't be having mana issues, but that doesn't really have a whole lot to do with haste. Haste will theoretically run you oom faster because you can get more casts off more quickly, but in practice it should take roughly the same amount of casts to top people off so most of that extra time you gained from haste is just spent channeling Soothing Mist or Fistweaving.

The only real exception to that is high damage fights where you're casting a lot. You'll get off a few more casts than you normally would if you have more haste, but it's not going to be a lot more.

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So is there like a soft haste cap that MW should be shooting for pre-2pc/4pc?

I highly doubt that we'd ever hit any kind of cap during this expansion, especially with the changes to how HoTs work. Haste should only start to become less useful when you reach a 1 second GCD which I believe is at 50% haste. I don't know about you, but I'm not getting anywhere near 50% haste. Even after that it will have it's use, but be much less important.

[Spotnick]

I don't know why this just occurred to me, but does anyone know if Extend Life works on Essences on Gorefiend? Could I for instance throw Extend Life on an Essence and then heal another Essence and have the one with Extend Life get the 4pc healing?

The 2pc does, not the 4pc.

Say hi to Ghostburr for me.

[Nokcihc]

The 2pc does, not the 4pc.

Say hi to Ghostburr for me.

Why does he know everyone?

[Buildapanda]

anyone try out the buffs to FWing yet?

[Totaltotemic]

Re: Haste

Don't forget that there is something to be said for speed rather than potency of heals. This is actually something I've noticed this tier with the 4p that calls back to the Resto Shaman days that when what you're trying to do is a combination of spells (Riptide --> Chain Heal, or Riptide --> HWx2), sometimes completing the combo faster is more important than each step of the combo having more potency attached. This sounds bizarre at first but allow me to explain.

Why is speed (Haste) rarely better than a smaller amount of potency (MS/Crit/Vers) if the percentage of speed is actually greater than the percentage of potency (e.g. right now 1% Versatility = 1.44% Haste)? Well, you spend more mana in the long run and in the end "probably" end up with the same number of casts, but each is weaker. As has been discussed though, mana is not always relevant, and this is where haste becomes good.

But wait, the essential combo of ReM (Extend Life specifically, which requires application shortly before Uplift to do much of anything) --> Uplift --> ReM --> Uplift --> ReM --> Uplift --> ReM to drain from 4 chi to zero follows all of the same rules, so why would that be any different? The answer is that Haste only becomes good if you can save more lives by having the spells complete faster, because otherwise saving mana by using a potency increasing stat is better.

In normal spell situations, the difference between 5% Haste (450 rating) and 3.47% more total healing (450 Vers) is pretty clearly in favor of the versatility because completing a spell in 1.429 seconds instead of 1.5 probably isn't going to change anything or save anyone's life. Mechanics simply don't happen in less than 1 full second intervals, so haste rarely ends up doing anything unless you are chaining multiple spells together.

With Extend Life, the most efficient way to use ReM, Uplift, and Chi is to space them apart so you can end each Uplift with a big bomb heal on the lowest raid member (which should instantly bring them to full), but every time you do this the total healing of the Uplift goes up. In that combination of spells above, the actual healing going out increases with every ReM/Uplift combination because every Uplift is still giving healing to the Extend Life targets you selected before.

Now we're talking about 7 spells going out in a row (for the absolute full sequence). This is 10.5 seconds total, but now that 5% haste brings it down to 10 seconds and we're talking about half of a second. If it's 10% haste we're looking at, it goes down to 9.55 seconds, or almost a full second cut off.

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This is all a really roundabout way of saying that increasing the potency of Extend Life is rarely relevant because it bombs so much healing on a single person that increasing its potency is just overhealing, while increasing speed of the combo will allow you to reach everyone before that next mechanic goes out in some situations. When a combination of spells does so much healing that it will get the job done either way, it becomes more important to complete the combo sooner than to make sure it is bigger because it can't really get much bigger. The best example of this in HFC is on Shadow-Lord Iskar when he does Phantasmal Wounds and Chakrams relatively close to each other. It is of paramount importance to make sure that everyone is above 80% health before the Chakrams go out, and my Extend Life Uplifts always top people that got Phantasmal Wounds pretty much regardless of their health (150k routinely before overheal on my last kill, plus the Uplift healing, plus the ReM healing and 2p healing) and it becomes much more important to top them quickly than to make sure I'm getting the most value out of my mana.

[Piffweaver]

Can we stop worrying about this non reforging tier and keep enjoying our frostwolfs?

[Totaltotemic]

Can we stop worrying about this non reforging tier and keep enjoying our frostwolfs? It's not like we're going to swap to warsong

What are you talking about? No one is saying that anything is better than multistrike. No one is going to swap to Warsong.. because that would be stupid.

[Piffweaver]

It was sarcasm, thought I removed that before anyone saw cuz I knew that one was coming lol.. I'm just saying, all this arguing for nothing is making haste sound a lot better then it is.. Since the only reason to argue about it in this non reforging tier is for enchant.. Thought you would have got that

[Geodew]

Haste is "situationally" good on 11/13 bosses. Tyrant haste is 100% worse than ms crit vers if you're 4 healing. Better if you're 5 healing. HHC is w/e at this point. It's been nerfed into the ground.

Gorefiend specifically, I find it really hard to believe haste is bad. You're either going to 5 heal it, meaning haste is the best stat by default. Or you 4 heal it and never oom anyway because 2400+ spirit w/ IG is a shit ton of regen.

Not really my experience during progression regarding never OOMing, and we found HHC to be more difficult after all the changes, in particular because the fight kept changing every week right after we got it down; it took maybe 20 attempts for the re-kill each week until they stopped changing it. Additionally, there's now one part where you get Reap casts during shadow phase, which you might not be seeing with your gear since it's later in the fight, but we still get it for now.

Regardless, as long as everyone understands the theory and adjusts their gear as they need with what their raid team is doing, we're on the same page. I don't see why you'd swap only Vers and Haste, though. Haste is either kinda good or really bad depending on the fight and how many healers you're using and how geared your raid is etc. etc.

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T18 it doesnt matter whether you use Haste weight 0,62 or 1,2, you will end up with the same BiS gear.

Not necessarily with Warforged, sockets, etc.

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the point i'm making is haste is actually a good stat, not trash.

Fair enough... this tier.

[Supliftz]

Hokay, quality answer to your last post would be something like this: if in your opinion haste is better stat when u are using more healers on the same boss compared to less(for healing, not fistweaving). Then that it is just chasing meters for long epeen. In real scenarios you should go for haste only because u cant save people in time.

If you're 5 healing in this instance, you should be fistweaving as much as possible. This means haste is one of our best stats for damage/dealing with burst.

[Floopa]

for mythic archimonde i would say haste is by far better than MS

i'm basically sitting in crane 90% of the fight and only healing for doomfire soaks in p2 and infernal drops in p3, outside of that i just dps. if i had more haste i'd be contributing so much more than i currently am, kinda annoying

[Deleted]

for mythic archimonde i would say haste is by far better than MS

i'm basically sitting in crane 90% of the fight and only healing for doomfire soaks in p2 and infernal drops in p3, outside of that i just dps. if i had more haste i'd be contributing so much more than i currently am, kinda annoying

Any Logs of that attempts so far?

[Floopa]

Any Logs of that attempts so far?

our best is 6%~ (xd we suck) but this attempt for example https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=1

you see i dps almost all of the time haha

goes to show how strong extend life is imo

[Magicmooch]

So TLDR for this tier is "Haste is actually pretty okay, don't be afraid to have some"?

[Spotnick]

Well, I think there is only one item that swapped (cloak) if you valued haste more than crit for the whole BIS list, so not like it changes much.

But anyways, I am a bad mistweaver, I never go in crane stance, so not like I care much.

[cqwrteur]

Renewing Mist: 135%*1.15*1.2*3 =558.9% 1%mana HPM: 558.9
Surging Mist: 318.14%*1.2=381.784% 1.7%mana HPM: 224.6

Is surging mist really better for chi than Renewing Mist when burst heal? Renewing Mist does both much more healing and much more overhealing than Surging Mist.

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Well, I think there is only one item that swapped (cloak) if you valued haste more than crit for the whole BIS list, so not like it changes much.

But anyways, I am a bad mistweaver, I never go in crane stance, so not like I care much.

You are not a bad mistweaver. Bad mistweavers never go in serpent stance.

Crane is really terrible, for it does neither more dps nor more hps than other healers. In fact, your dps and hps are both pretty shit in Crane.

However, it's really good to do crane for stacking some mana tea to reduce your spirit.

[Oziemaster]

Crane is really terrible, for it does neither more dps nor more hps than other healers. In fact, your dps and hps are both pretty shit in Crane.

Except Crane stance does the the most DPS out of any other healer by a large margin.

[Deleted]

Renewing Mist: 135%*1.15*1.2*3 =558.9% 1%mana HPM: 558.9
Surging Mist: 318.14%*1.2=381.784% 1.7%mana HPM: 224.6

Is surging mist really better for chi than Renewing Mist when burst heal? Renewing Mist does both much more healing and much more overhealing than Surging Mist.

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You are not a bad mistweaver. Bad mistweavers never go in serpent stance.

Crane is really terrible, for it does neither more dps nor more hps than other healers. In fact, your dps and hps are both pretty shit in Crane.

However, it's really good to do crane for stacking some mana tea to reduce your spirit.

What am I reading?

[Spotnick]

You are not a bad mistweaver. Bad mistweavers never go in serpent stance.

Crane is really terrible, for it does neither more dps nor more hps than other healers. In fact, your dps and hps are both pretty shit in Crane.

However, it's really good to do crane for stacking some mana tea to reduce your spirit.

Don't get me wrong, I do go on Crane stance, but only when it's really needed or important (ex: Primal Elementalists on Blast Furnace)

I've never been a fan of doing dps for the sake of it, well except on fights with damage multipliers, I was totally ok with it when it was our main source of chi generation though, but that's an old debate.