[GUIDE] Drunken Savagery: Brewmaster Tanking in [6.2]

[Deleted]

Getting to use super powerful CD 13 times during 6 min encounter seems godlike to me.

No no, I totally agree. The fact is, I thought I wasn't using Guard as much as I could, and I went through yesterday's logs to see how I was faring, and over a 6:13 fight I used 12 times which is pretty close to the maximum of uses.

tl;dr: thought I was shit at using Guard, but that's not it. I must be shit at EH or other things.

[Hellkung]

He's right though, the ignore feature shouldn't be necessary.

Guys this is a Brewmaster discussion thread. Keep the talk about other specs out of it, if we're going to be seeing discussions like these happen.

I don't actually think the conversation got heated at all. I mean PTS was somewhat blunt initially but the points he brings up are relevant to all classes. BOS DKs are just used as a poster child which is the crux of the problem in my opinion. Chi Explosion is a much more elegant choice where you gain DPS at the cost of mitigation.

How small that window is depends on the player and obviously there's things that are still wrong. Stagger dots not mattering for example as they diminish and the billions of free heals/hots from healers directly countering it. We shouldn't dismiss constructive posts just because they don't have to do with BRMs but tanking in general.

I wish there was a 'tanking' forum or maybe there is one and I've been blind all my life.

[Shamanberry]

OK, same as Dark Soul then. I don't know where I read the opposite. Oh well, it basically means that I get one charge every 30s, and one other charge to use once whenever I want during the fight.

In a 6-min fight, I can guard only 13 times? Seems low.

Depends on how you use Guard. Usually you're not going to just mash it on CD, but use it either as a CD to block a predictable hit (like Gruul's Flame Slash), or as an emergency "I just got hit really hard and need to live" button, depending on the fight requirements.

Hitting the button doesn't start the timer over. If you have 1 charge left and you hit the button when your recharge timer is at 5 sec, you'll still gain 1 charge back 5 sec later (then the other back 30 sec after that).

[Deleted]

Just Guard every single one, no reason to use anything else. It does like 300k damage maximum.

lol still as simple as that in mythic? Looking forward to some of the other bosses, even with using crit buil nothing has hurt since ilvl 675 in HC (691 now in mythic)

We not got the kill yet but had some good attempts, but just looking to make sure that im doing my part to reduced dmg on the Acid Tor

[Deleted]

went through yesterday's logs

Just using the linked log.
You could have used a Guard right at the beginning (with the first serenity it wouldn't even cost chi).
By the time you actually use your first Guard you could have recharged one allready.

This way you could have negated ~600k damage without any cost.
And you would still have one charge of Guard in case of an emergency.

Obviously don't do something like this if you know you will need your Guard for special attacks (eg Gruul)

lol still as simple as that in mythic?

It is. If there is Guard left after Acid Torrent then you minimized the group damage part of the spell as much as possible.
You can use Dampen Harm with it but its not really needed if you have resolve (tanked before pressing Guard)

[thedr8993]

10 dks clear HBRF on their own... -_- can we just get our serenity back to like 7 seconds, if not 10? /sigh

- - - Updated - - -

I don't actually think the conversation got heated at all. I mean PTS was somewhat blunt initially but the points he brings up are relevant to all classes. BOS DKs are just used as a poster child which is the crux of the problem in my opinion. Chi Explosion is a much more elegant choice where you gain DPS at the cost of mitigation.

How small that window is depends on the player and obviously there's things that are still wrong. Stagger dots not mattering for example as they diminish and the billions of free heals/hots from healers directly countering it. We shouldn't dismiss constructive posts just because they don't have to do with BRMs but tanking in general.

I wish there was a 'tanking' forum or maybe there is one and I've been blind all my life.

The issue is that the "discussion" devolved into: "I'm right, and not only are you wrong, but a total idiot for expressing your opinion" which just isn't healthy discussion. PTS has insightful things to add to the discussion even though he doesn't play BrM, which is awesome. However, we can all benefit from less "shut the hell up, stupid" types of posts.

PTS did, somewhat, apologize, so it's sort of whatever. But I think it's important that as a community, we don't make people feel inferior or ashamed of expressing their opinion and/or asking questions, even if it's derived from a fear that the "devs might read this post and act on it."

Also, prefacing a post with "no offense," does not give you free reign to tear into someone, no matter what you've been told.

[The Madgod]

The issue is that the "discussion" devolved into: "I'm right, and not only are you wrong, but a total idiot for expressing your opinion" which just isn't healthy discussion. PTS has insightful things to add to the discussion even though he doesn't play BrM, which is awesome. However, we can all benefit from less "shut the hell up, stupid" types of posts.

PTS did, somewhat, apologize, so it's sort of whatever. But I think it's important that as a community, we don't make people feel inferior or ashamed of expressing their opinion and/or asking questions, even if it's derived from a fear that the "devs might read this post and act on it."

Also, prefacing a post with "no offense," does not give you free reign to tear into someone, no matter what you've been told.

Exactly right. If you want to say someone's wrong, do so politely, and I don't consider "I'm right, you're wrong" to be proper discussion, ESPECIALLY if people are starting to attack others rather than their arguments.

It wasn't Gen-OT heated. if it was, I'd have actually infracted people and not simply tell them to chill. But it was still heated.

[Deleted]

Depends on how you use Guard. Usually you're not going to just mash it on CD, but use it either as a CD to block a predictable hit (like Gruul's Flame Slash), or as an emergency "I just got hit really hard and need to live" button, depending on the fight requirements.

Hitting the button doesn't start the timer over. If you have 1 charge left and you hit the button when your recharge timer is at 5 sec, you'll still gain 1 charge back 5 sec later (then the other back 30 sec after that).

That contradicts what Ziktator said. So which is it? I'm at work now but I thought it worked as you said: I hit Guard (30s duration, 30s CD) once, then a second time 25 seconds later ; 5 seconds later, I'll have one charge.

Dark Soul, and according to Ziktator Guard too, works another way: only one charge will ever recharge at a time, and it is only ever the last one used: I hit Dark Soul (20s duration, 2min CD) once, then a second time 20 seconds later ; 2min later I'll have one charge (not 1min40s as per Guard's system).

Am I right or wrong? Told you I'm getting crazy over this.

[LoKSET]

It doesn't contradict anything - you're just reading it wrong. The recharge is constantly running (unless you are at the maximum number of charges) and you using the ability in no way messes with that. For example you have 1 charge of Hand of Guldan and another will be ready in 3 secs, you use the first one, cast a Soul Fire and by that time there is another charge ready and you double stack it.

[Deleted]

It doesn't contradict anything - you're just reading it wrong. The recharge is constantly running (unless you are at the maximum number of charges) and you using the ability in no way messes with that. For example you have 1 charge of Hand of Guldan and another will be ready in 3 secs, you use the first one, cast a Soul Fire and by that time there is another charge ready and you double stack it.

Okay I see what he meant: only one charge ever recharges at a time, so if I use two charges back to back I'll have one charge 30s after the use of the first charge, and the next one 30s after that. So, optimal play aside, I have two charges to play with at pull, then one every 30s after that, right?

Archimonde's Darkness's DS works the same way, as in if I use the two charges back to back, I'll have one charge 2min after the first use and every two minutes after that assuming I use it on CD.

I don't know why my brain cannot process this shit.

Thanks anyway.

[Deleted]

Okay I see what he meant: only one charge ever recharges at a time, so if I use two charges back to back I'll have one charge 30s after the use of the first charge, and the next one 30s after that. So, optimal play aside, I have two charges to play with at pull, then one every 30s after that, right?

Archimonde's Darkness's DS works the same way, as in if I use the two charges back to back, I'll have one charge 2min after the first use and every two minutes after that assuming I use it on CD.

I don't know why my brain cannot process this shit.

Thanks anyway.

The reason you're confused is because Archimonde's Darkness doesn't actually put DS on a 2-charge system like Guard is - it simply gives you one more usage of DS to work with over the course of the fight that you can use wherever you want. Guard, on the other hand, has a "true" 2-charge mechanic in the sense that you can always have 2 charges stored, whereas even if you go a full 4 minutes without casting DS after you've used that "second charge" you'll never get back to 2 charges.

[sagajin]

Not sure this is the best place to ask. when anelysing your logs as a brewmaster. what are the top things to look at to see if you performed well.

[Nikkej]

Not sure this is the best place to ask. when anelysing your logs as a brewmaster. what are the top things to look at to see if you performed well.

Self buffs uptime - Shuffle, Tiger Palm etc.

And correct useage of guard.

Etc etc.

[Deleted]

Not sure this is the best place to ask. when anelysing your logs as a brewmaster. what are the top things to look at to see if you performed well.

hitting keg smash on cd(as much as possible) which you can check via casts, same goes for most other abilities with a cd that are part of your "rotation"(under normal circumstances that is)
when playing serenity, looking at the damage that you actually purified is a good indicator of playing decently, using serenity on cd (unless special circumstance where you would need 10 seconds of immediate purify(??))

when playing chi explosion, you obviously care about your damage output , so comparing your log to other ppl within your ilvl range and playing the same talent setup can obviously be helpful spotting mistakes.
otherwise, correct usage of defensive abilities, timing guards with high resolve (usually whenever you tank anything youre at high resolve , so this shouldnt be particularly hard)

[Deleted]

The reason you're confused is because Archimonde's Darkness doesn't actually put DS on a 2-charge system like Guard is - it simply gives you one more usage of DS to work with over the course of the fight that you can use wherever you want. Guard, on the other hand, has a "true" 2-charge mechanic in the sense that you can always have 2 charges stored, whereas even if you go a full 4 minutes without casting DS after you've used that "second charge" you'll never get back to 2 charges.

Will you marry me? Thanks for the explanation, I think I've got a solid grasp of the concept now

[sagajin]

Self buffs uptime - Shuffle, Tiger Palm etc.

And correct useage of guard.

Etc etc.

and what would be accepteble %'s of uptime?

- - - Updated - - -

hitting keg smash on cd(as much as possible) which you can check via casts, same goes for most other abilities with a cd that are part of your "rotation"(under normal circumstances that is)
when playing serenity, looking at the damage that you actually purified is a good indicator of playing decently, using serenity on cd (unless special circumstance where you would need 10 seconds of immediate purify(??))

when playing chi explosion, you obviously care about your damage output , so comparing your log to other ppl within your ilvl range and playing the same talent setup can obviously be helpful spotting mistakes.
otherwise, correct usage of defensive abilities, timing guards with high resolve (usually whenever you tank anything youre at high resolve , so this shouldnt be particularly hard)

thanks! (10c)

[Deleted]

and what would be accepteble %'s of uptime?

I didn't touch on buff uptimes, because all the important ones should be self evidently 100% (tiger power and shuffle)

[Colors]

I didn't touch on buff uptimes, because all the important ones should be self evidently 100% (tiger power and shuffle)

This. Once you get to the boss, get Shuffle and Tiger Palm up, and you shouldn't let them fall for the rest of the fight. The only thing is with ChiX and Shuffle, is you will run in to circumstances where Shuffle will fall off due to it not stacking to infinity like with Serenity (doing boats on Maidens is a good example of this).

As for Guard, there isn't a good way to gauge Guard uptime, as it is very fight dependent. Also, if you're pushing numbers, you will be Guarding a LOT less than people that are playing safer. Even on Mythic, there are several fights where I will only Guard once or twice.

[Deleted]

I'm overthinking some things too much again, and it's starting to make me doubt about what my opener should be. And if it should be different if you start tanking, or not? I went from always pulling the boss to never pulling, because of aggro issues in different guilds/differnet co-tanks, and I find that I'm kinda struggling with a proper opener for when I'm not actively tanking. I'm kind of figuring that starting shuffle goes down on the priority list and dps abilities go ahead, and that set off my whole thought train of what exactly my opener should be in both circumstances. My conclusion is that I have too many buttons that I want to press at the same time and that I'm confused.

Currently (never pulling because my co-tank will overaggro anyways), my opener is something in the region of
-prepot,
-roll in and pop Xuen if talented,
-on use trinket if available (was Pol's, but I replaced that yesterday for BFD so currently no on-use trinkets),
-Keg smash, Tiger Palm, Serenity.

When I was the one who started tanking, I usually ignored Xuen, trinket and TP until after Serenity spam, or smuggled them in somewhere during the spam.

I'm reasonably sure both my current opener and most certainly the one that I used when I started tanking (although that's currently not an issue, since I don't) need some tweaking to get better.

[Aethrios]

Unless I'm mistaken, there's no difference in opening rotation whether you're opening or not (except, perhaps, on-use mastery trinkets).

- Zen Sphere
- Prepot
- PULL (I prefer roll, but I don't have threat issues with my co-tank. Others taunt with their pull, especially for stationary bosses like Kromog) + Xuen + Trinkets*
- Tiger Palm
- Keg Smash (+ Serenity)
> Rotation as normal

*If you're actively tanking first, then any/all on use. If you're NOT, then just your armor on uses, if you're going for damage.