[6.0 Guide] Arms - The 10 second master

[Deleted]

Okay so Ive been trying out fury for the past week and I really like it but I want to get familiar with both specs so Im going to try arms for the next clear on wednesday.

However my dps is ALOT lower (simming a couple of thousand dps lower, if not even more). I did a reforge plot with crit and mastery and this is what I got. http://imgur.com/1ZkhbDd

And these are my scale factors:
Crit Str Haste Mastery
7.89 6.99 5.79 5.49

What is going on here? Why is simC prioritizing crit so much over haste/mastery?

My stats are (self buffed):
43.26% crit
14.90% haste
150.04% mastery

[Bizerk]

You need higher crit for rage gen, mastery is only good single target anyway (IJ) so i don't see a reason to go that high on it.

[Archimtiros]

Okay so Ive been trying out fury for the past week and I really like it but I want to get familiar with both specs so Im going to try arms for the next clear on wednesday.

However my dps is ALOT lower (simming a couple of thousand dps lower, if not even more). I did a reforge plot with crit and mastery and this is what I got. http://imgur.com/1ZkhbDd

And these are my scale factors:
Crit Str Haste Mastery
7.89 6.99 5.79 5.49

What is going on here? Why is simC prioritizing crit so much over haste/mastery?

My stats are (self buffed):
43.26% crit
14.90% haste
150.04% mastery

You have 150% mastery, thats why. Excessive much? Lol.

[Deleted]

Yesterday was my first RAID as Arms since WotlK. Could anyone maining
an Arms Warrior overlook my Log to tell me what I could improve?

I cant post any links yet, but I'm Bëcks from Der Rat von Dalaran.
First fight was Siegecrafter at warcraftlogs.

Thanks in advance!

[Teye]

And these are my scale factors:
Crit Str Haste Mastery
7.89 6.99 5.79 5.49

Link armory.

[apokalypce]

so sudden death just got the nerfbat. Is it still going to be the go to talent? Are we still going to roll haste? I think the 10% nerf takes away half our proc's.

[Deleted]

Sudden Death wasn't nerfed. Proc chance already was sitting at 10%.
Haste is a matter of taste imho. Not mine tbh

[Warriorsarri]

SD was never to go to talent for Arms, TfB + 4set is a lot better.

[Deleted]

So about Headlong Rush, is there a 11% breakpoint for globals to be 1s long?

[Archimtiros]

So about Headlong Rush, is there a 11% breakpoint for globals to be 1s long?

Lol no, that would be 50% Haste.

[apokalypce]

thanks for the info, i'll get that swapped up and check them meters!

[Deleted]

Lol no, that would be 50% Haste.

I knew something was off, in Wrath one had to sport 1200 haste (which was an obscene amount) in order to lower the global to 1s <.< thanks Archie.
Is there a graph for the various HLR breakpoints? Or a "do this calculation to get'em"?

[87Octane]

Great writeup, If I could make one minor suggestion it would be to explain what exactly Sweeping Strikes transfers now. I've always been fuzzy on it, and some things have changed.

[Archimtiros]

I knew something was off, in Wrath one had to sport 1200 haste (which was an obscene amount) in order to lower the global to 1s <.< thanks Archie.
Is there a graph for the various HLR breakpoints? Or a "do this calculation to get'em"?

GCD / (1 + .haste#) = new GCD
So if you have 50% haste
1.5 / (1+.50) or
1.5 / 1.5 = 1s GCD

If you had 20.67% haste
1.5 / 1.2067 = 1.24s GCD

Same for Bloodthirst, just with its CD instead.

4.5 / 1.5 = 3s CD.

As for breakpoints the only real one before 1s GCD is 5 GCDs inside CS, which would be 1.2 or 25% Haste. However, this isn't really a big deal for Arms with its poopy rage generation and difficulty filling GCDs.

- - - Updated - - -

Great writeup, If I could make one minor suggestion it would be to explain what exactly Sweeping Strikes transfers now. I've always been fuzzy on it, and some things have changed.

It copies just about everything, however for AoE effects it will only copy one hit instead of every individual attack, which was changed sometime in Wrath or Cata if I recall correctly. Prior to that, every attack was duplicated, meaning if your Whirlwind hit four targets, you'd get 8 attacks out of it. Hilariously awesome as it is, it's also just a little overpowered!

I didn't cover anything too in depth because this was a simple "what changed in 6.0" guide, not a full blown "I've never played Arms before" guide. With regards to Sweeping Strikes, nothing changed so I didn't feel the need to mention; for the same reason I didn't cover how to effectively use offensive or defensive CDs or use non standard talents like Mass Spell Reflection or Intervene in specific situations.

The actual Warlords guide for level 100 should be more in depth. If people need it broken down barney style before then, I hear Rossi is writing.

[Diograo]

I hear Rossi is writing.

this^ made me laugh

[87Octane]

It copies just about everything, however for AoE effects it will only copy one hit instead of every individual attack, which was changed sometime in Wrath or Cata if I recall correctly. Prior to that, every attack was duplicated, meaning if your Whirlwind hit four targets, you'd get 8 attacks out of it. Hilariously awesome as it is, it's also just a little overpowered!

I didn't cover anything too in depth because this was a simple "what changed in 6.0" guide, not a full blown "I've never played Arms before" guide. With regards to Sweeping Strikes, nothing changed so I didn't feel the need to mention; for the same reason I didn't cover how to effectively use offensive or defensive CDs or use non standard talents like Mass Spell Reflection or Intervene in specific situations.

The actual Warlords guide for level 100 should be more in depth. If people need it broken down barney style before then, I hear Rossi is writing.

I was confused because I read "sudden death does no AOE damage" and thought you were generally referring to execute as well. I didn't realize it was programmed differently (Execute vs. proc'd Execute), I would consider it new information and worth clarification (but that's just me). Unless it's the same carryover programming from 4pc? But in that case, not part of the spellbook's toolkit pre 6.0.

[Archimtiros]

I was confused because I read "sudden death does no AOE damage" and thought you were generally referring to execute as well. I didn't realize it was programmed differently (Execute vs. proc'd Execute), I would consider it new information. Unless it's the same carryover programming from 4pc? But in that case, not part of the spellbook's toolkit pre 6.0.

I honestly don't know what you are trying to say right now, but it could very well be sleep deprivation so forgive me.

Sudden Death doesn't do any AoE damage. No version of Execute does. Now if by AoE damage you mean cleave via Sweeping Strikes, then yes it does, but that isn't new information; Sweeping Strikes has always copied Execute damage. It copies every direct attack you make from Hamstring to Heroic Strike (RIP).

Absolutely nothing has changed regarding Sweeping Strikes in 6.0. It works exactly as it did prior to. Although Sudden Death may be new (though historically in the game it isn't really new, but that is besides the point), it still interacts the same as every other ability we have.

[87Octane]

I honestly don't know what you are trying to say right now, but it could very well be sleep deprivation so forgive me.

Sudden Death doesn't do any AoE damage. No version of Execute does. Now if by AoE damage you mean cleave via Sweeping Strikes, then yes it does, but that isn't new information; Sweeping Strikes has always copied Execute damage. It copies every direct attack you make from Hamstring to Heroic Strike (RIP).

Absolutely nothing has changed regarding Sweeping Strikes in 6.0. It works exactly as it did prior to. Although Sudden Death may be new (though historically in the game it isn't really new, but that is besides the point), it still interacts the same as every other ability we have.

Ok, well then clarification in a different sense. If you say "Sudden Death does no AoE damage" - I'm interpreting that as "Oh ok, SD must proc a different execute that doesn't interact with SS" or "SD will not contribute at all to any more than 1 target". Technically none of the talents in that do row "do AOE damage" by themselves, but by interaction (SS or multi-dot), and if SD has no interaction - yada yada. I apologize but it just confused me.

It's just a varied level of assumption in the wording. It just threw me off. You break the talents down by interaction (because of course, none of them do direct AOE damage), but then you specifically say "SD does no AOE damage". I know Execute doesn't directly do AOE damage, but neither does Slam or Rend because it's inferred that SS is kept up. So the specific mentioning of SD NOT doing AOE damage confused me. no biggie.

[Archimtiros]

Ok, well then clarification in a different sense. If you say "Sudden Death does no AoE damage" - I'm interpreting that as "Oh ok, SD must proc a different execute that doesn't interact with SS" or "SD will not contribute at all to any more than 1 target". Technically none of the talents in that do row "do AOE damage" by themselves, but by interaction (SS or multi-dot), and if SD has no interaction - yada yada. I apologize but it just confused me.

It's just a varied level of assumption in the wording. It just threw me off. You break the talents down by interaction (because of course, none of them do direct AOE damage), but then you specifically say "SD does no AOE damage". I know Execute doesn't directly do AOE damage, but neither does Slam or Rend because it's inferred that SS is kept up. So the specific mentioning of SD NOT doing AOE damage confused me. no biggie.

Ok, a bit of clarity may have helped both of us then. I wasn't listing Sweeping Strikes interaction in any of the talents, but the reason I said Sudden Death did no AoE damage, wasn't me saying it didn't interact with SS (if that was true I would have specifically stated it, since that would be unusual), it was because I was directly comparing it to the other talents in that row and how they fit into a multi-target rotation.

To break it down;
Slam is a terrible multi-target talent, because it directly competes with Whirlwind. That is to say, every time you use Slam (and hit one target, or even two with Sweeping Strikes), you are taking rage and a gcd that would be better spent on Whirlwind.

Sudden Death isn't quite the same, while it does take a GCD, Arms has open GCDs anyways, it's big draw is that it is free. However, it only deals damage to one target (two with Sweeping Strikes).

Thirst for Blood is the best talent on the tier by far because it doesn't take a GCD (or rather it interacts with one you are spending already) and the increased rage generation granted by the talent enables us to fill otherwise empty GCDs with what is already our best AoE attack, Whirlwind.


Although if we really wanted to be sticklers for wording, I'd say my original description was accurate because AoE is in fact not the same thing as cleave, and while Sweeping Strikes does enable abilities to hit more than one target, it still is absolutely not Area of Effect damage.

Anyways, hope that cleared it up for you.

[87Octane]

Yes thanks! Lol, I thought about that that too! "Maybe he's being a pro and AOE means more 2 two targets!" But now that WW is filler i'm having trouble drawing a line in the sand with regards to cleave vs. aoe vs incidental aoe and that spark of realization faded.

small question: What's the maximum number of targets you can Rend (TfB) and still be able to spend all of your rage? Or rather, the ideal # of applications.