[6.0 Guide] Protection - "We still have heroic strike, don't be jealous"

[booi]

The Death Brand ticks on your co-tank are 25% higher, because he had the Shadow Blast Debuff (25% more shadow damage). Don't know what's about the Desecration Damage. Maybe you had the Shadowdamage Reduction Buff on you and your Co-tank don't.

does anyone have any mannoroth logs for massive blast being shared?

is the shared damage 300% higher on the off tank with the debuff?


edit:
it would seem kind of silly if you intended to cut the damage in half by using the ring, but instead the second tank takes a hit twice the size of the original massive blast. (-12.5% for versatility)

[Deleted]

No, you don't get the 300% higher damage.
But, as massive blast cannot be blocked, you get your full 50% part of the damage (even if your co-tank fully absorbed his part).

[booi]

No, you don't get the 300% higher damage.
But, as massive blast cannot be blocked, you get your full 50% part of the damage (even if your co-tank fully absorbed his part).

do you have a log that shows this? it looks like cashballer was taking 25% more transferred damage than me due to a debuff. (see above)

[Deleted]

We have tested this in our Raid. Cannot post Logs (private).
But I have summarized the interessting parts:

01:37.791 Muuku is afflicted by Massive Explosion from Mannoroth
02:03.250 Muuku gains Sanctus from Muuku
02:08.772 Massive Explosion Monktank 160624 (A:1354)
02:08.772 Monktank Sanctus Muuku 161978
02:18.235 Muuku's Sanctum fades from Muuku
02:22.806 Mannoroth's Massive Explosion fades from Muuku

[booi]

We have tested this in our Raid. Cannot post Logs (private).
But I have summarized the interessting parts:

01:37.791 Muuku is afflicted by Massive Explosion from Mannoroth
02:03.250 Muuku gains Sanctus from Muuku
02:08.772 Massive Explosion Monktank 160624 (A:1354)
02:08.772 Monktank Sanctus Muuku 161978
02:18.235 Muuku's Sanctum fades from Muuku
02:22.806 Mannoroth's Massive Explosion fades from Muuku

perfect, thanks.

any thoughts on why deathbrand was ticking 25% harder on cashballer?

edit:
specifically, is all the damage transferred as shadow, or is it transferred as type?

[Deleted]

Can't really say how it works. I have to speculate.
But I think it is transferred as type.

Death Brand is Shadow Damage.
You transferred 50% (before absorb) to your Co-Tank.
But because he had the Shadow Blast Debuff, he received 25% additional shadow damage.

Massive Explosion is also Shadow Damage.
But the Massive Explosion Debuff doesn't increase shadow damage.
It increase the Massive Explosion Damage.
As you transferred shadow damage to your Co-Tank, he is uneffected by this debuff.

- - - Updated - - -

It's also worth to note, that you can't mitigate sanctus damage.

For example:
- Boss hits your co-tank for 200.000 damage
- Because of sanctus both tanks get 100.000 damage
- You have shield block active an a 100.000 shield barrier on you
- You will get the full 100.000 damage because you can't mitigate sanctus damage

This results in a next example:
- Boss hits your co-tank for 200.000 damage
- Your co-tank has a 200.000 absorb shield
- Because sanctus ignore absorb shields, both tanks get 100.000 damage
- Your co-tank fully absorbs his damage
- You will get 100.000 damage

Can someone countercheck, whether this is correct?
Because it is a little bit weird that without sanctus there is no damage at all on the tanks (co-tank absorbs the 200.000 damage complete).
And with active sanctus there is ...

- - - Updated - - -

Note:
Not take account of the -12,5% damage reduction from versatility

[Deleted]

Can't really say how it works. I have to speculate.
But I think it is transferred as type.

Death Brand is Shadow Damage.
You transferred 50% (before absorb) to your Co-Tank.
But because he had the Shadow Blast Debuff, he received 25% additional shadow damage.

Massive Explosion is also Shadow Damage.
But the Massive Explosion Debuff doesn't increase shadow damage.
It increase the Massive Explosion Damage.
As you transferred shadow damage to your Co-Tank, he is uneffected by this debuff.

- - - Updated - - -

It's also worth to note, that you can't mitigate sanctus damage.

For example:
- Boss hits your co-tank for 200.000 damage
- Because of sanctus both tanks get 100.000 damage
- You have shield block active an a 100.000 shield barrier on you
- You will get the full 100.000 damage because you can't mitigate sanctus damage

This results in a next example:
- Boss hits your co-tank for 200.000 damage
- Your co-tank has a 200.000 absorb shield
- Because sanctus ignore absorb shields, both tanks get 100.000 damage
- Your co-tank fully absorbs his damage
- You will get 100.000 damage

Can someone countercheck, whether this is correct?
Because it is a little bit weird that without sanctus there is no damage at all on the tanks (co-tank absorbs the 200.000 damage complete).
And with active sanctus there is ...

- - - Updated - - -

Note:
Not take account of the -12,5% damage reduction from versatility

Why wouldn't you be able to absorb or mitigate the damage passively with Defensive Stance? That'd be silly. I hope this isn't the case.

[Deleted]

You mean the Sanctus Damage?
It is already reduced by things like Defence Stance, Stagger, Block, RaidCDs before you receive the damage.
You cannot reduce it a second time passively (don't know whether RaidCDs work).

Why absorbing shields (selfcast and external) are ignored by Sanctus, don't know.
If this is true, it results in weird situations.

Think about Iron Reaver.
Without Sanctus you can complete absorb artillery.
With Sanctus your co-tank who is tanking the reaver will receive half of your artillery damage in addition.

Maybe I'm missing an important part.
Would be nice if someone can countercheck it.

[Yenami]

Interesting read. Haven't been able to test it myself yet as my co-tank doesn't have the ring. However if Sanctus damage can't be absorbed that will be really odd. Maining Monk I can often absorb big hits on my own simply with Guard, why would I want to split that onto my co-tank who can't do anything but get a 200k hit in his face?

On another note: Played my alt warrior in a raid today and found out Shield Barrier counts as Active Mitigation on Kilrogg. Blew my mind. 20 Rage barrier and you are safe from the debuff. Unsure if this is the case on Mannoroth aswell, but if it is: OP. Not that its hard to save a charge of Block either, but compared to the RNG of Elusive Brew on Monk I am jelly.

[booi]

Interesting read. Haven't been able to test it myself yet as my co-tank doesn't have the ring. However if Sanctus damage can't be absorbed that will be really odd. Maining Monk I can often absorb big hits on my own simply with Guard, why would I want to split that onto my co-tank who can't do anything but get a 200k hit in his face?

On another note: Played my alt warrior in a raid today and found out Shield Barrier counts as Active Mitigation on Kilrogg. Blew my mind. 20 Rage barrier and you are safe from the debuff. Unsure if this is the case on Mannoroth aswell, but if it is: OP. Not that its hard to save a charge of Block either, but compared to the RNG of Elusive Brew on Monk I am jelly.

Barrier works on Mann. They're likely trying to avoid the raden situationwhere you couldn't really use shield block while actively tanking and having your active mitigation not even reduce the special attack.

[Deleted]

The problem with delaying block by too much is that on the harder hitting bosses you open yourself to taking a lot of damage. Mannoroth, Xhul'Horac add, etc... In the end it seems better to just play as normal and barrier / CD in case of bad lineups

[Just Another Monk]

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but are most of you rolling with Crit or Mastery enchants/gems for HC / Mythic HFC?

Thanks (:

[Jjmackey]

Was doing Mythic Socrethar and our Monk tank had 6 stacks, then put his ring up for the next Reverberating Smash....dropped me to about 15% health haha

Not a huge fan of having to play around things like that

[Tummyrubs]

I'm not a top end warrior but im still mastery. I dont like the feel of being under 45% block and the only way i could do it w/ the crit build is to be locked into using ttt. I looked eddy up and he's mastery still also. But he said on the final boss stream he was going more towards being a safe tank so that may play into his decision.

[Piano]

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but are most of you rolling with Crit or Mastery enchants/gems for HC / Mythic HFC?

Thanks (:

I was 9/10 mythic in BRF and we're 3/13 mythic in HFC and I've always been full crit for gems/enchants, although in HFC I have swapped from Thunderlord on my weapon to Mark of Blackrock.

[warbean]

I was 9/10 mythic in BRF and we're 3/13 mythic in HFC and I've always been full crit for gems/enchants, although in HFC I have swapped from Thunderlord on my weapon to Mark of Blackrock.

9/13 Mythic here. The first 9 bosses are not serious challenges to prot warrior survivability, at all and if i could do it again I'd do a crit build. We are working on Xhul now though and it is very taxing for tanks. I imagine Velari is the same way.

[Tummyrubs]

Changed all my enchants to crit this week to feel it out and i noticed no change in survivability. I have to hold back more now b/c im constantly riding our blood dk for threat. Also thx for the vids warbean as not many prot that are close to finishing are putting them out.

[ziir]

Are the stat priorities in the link in the OP still relevant?

Defensive Stat Priority: Bonus Armor > Mastery > Crit > Versatility > Haste > Multistrike
Offensive Stat Priority: Bonus Armor > Crit > Multistrike > Haste > Versatility > Mastery

[grafarion]

Are the stat priorities in the link in the OP still relevant?

I would say no as the guide is quite dated now but it may vary by play-style with regards to what is considered "best."

Personally I would skew my gear towards mastery and crit if I was more defensive oriented vs. crit and haste if I was looking to get more offensive output. Obviously in both cases bonus armor reigns supreme but HFC provides solid options for both routes.

[Deleted]

Are the stat priorities in the link in the OP still relevant?

I believe secondary stat priority doesn't really matter that much. Those "<" signs are pretty meaningless at this stage.

If you're going for a Defensive build, then avoid Multi/Haste -- prioritize Armor, Mastery, Crit/Versatility. If not go with whatever you want, and prioritize item level (you should also prioritize ilvl in the previous case, by the way, and still avoid Multi/Haste).

What truly matters is how you actually manage your Active Mitigation, and especially how you manage Shield Block's downtime. If you master that, you'll be able to do whatever you want with your secondary stats without suffering or gaining much from it. And if you haven't mastered that, then you'll die anyways, no matter what you do with your stats.

The thing is, you can't really stack whatever stat you want anyways, since it all comes down to what's available in the HFC raid, and stats aren't that diverse as you've seen. This makes the room for "specific" optimization very small, and so the room for benefiting or loosing from your optimization equally as small.

In short, if you've gotten your AM mastered, your CD management mastered, your external CDs mastered, then secondary stat priority becomes very irrelevant in this raid.

This is coming from an objective 13/13 H point of view, but I strongly doubt it's any different in Mythic for the Prot Warrior.

- - - Updated - - -

I would say no as the guide is quite dated now but it may vary by play-style with regards to what is considered "best."

Personally I would skew my gear towards mastery and crit if I was more defensive oriented vs. crit and haste if I was looking to get more offensive output. Obviously in both cases bonus armor reigns supreme but HFC provides solid options for both routes.

Yep, I find it very hard to consider anything to be the "best" stat. Actually, I don't get at all on what basis people are still doing that, since like you implied, it's so dependent on playstyle.
i.g.: Why would anyone care for Mastery if they're being overhealed all the time, because their healers are so overgeared already? Best thing to do would be to go Crit/Haste in that case. The opposite is also true -- why care for Crit instead of Mastery/Armor if your healers are always suffering to keep you topped?

My point is, I find very silly that some people are preaching this "Crit > everything" priority like there were any general basis to it.