6.0 PvE Ret Paladin Theorycraft & Discussion

[Monoroth]

4p is definitely not working, tryed with ES and CS, the buff is there but the damage isn't increased.

Fel cleave trinket seems to be far better then the fel dot one. As for Seraphim vs FV, FV is clear winner for me with the amount of cleave/AoE you need to do on pretty much every single fight in HFC.

If ecounter/tactics allows it, what do you think about lining up 2nd ES with 4p, do you think is it worth the wait for extra ES damage plus potential RPPM trinket proc at the same time with 2nd AW up?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

So if I looked right... there's no on use str trinkets for HFC?

[Relimash]

So if I looked right... there's no on use str trinkets for HFC?

nope, but our trinkets are still baller as ever.

[Solsacra]

Well, as i posted on the last page i've been working on getting SimC up to speed with T18. Currently there are some bugs that are present on the PTR, notably Empty Drinking Horn's proc value is under budget which also only multistrikes once and doesn't crit, likewise with Libram of Vengeance. I suspect Unending hunger will receive some tweaks as well, as the stacks cannot proc from spells, such as exorcism or Execution Sentence. Given that, this is what our talent and Trinket balance looks like at Heroic level.




Edit: Also, Discordant Chorus' proc rate scales with Haste, and is the only trinket that performs as such, so it will scale better in the long run than the other options.

[ujx]

Agreed. It may have just been because the trinkets were all scaled up, but I can see the best trinket setup would be fel flame/cleave trinket just so we can actually help on adds.

I assumed the trinket that put the burn on a target would be great but I kept getting undeerwhelming results with it. I probably need to do more testing with it but the initial impression was it was pretty bad.

[Urioh]

Discordant Chorus will carry us all anyway. Shit is tooooo op right now, itll be fixxed 100%
Fel Cleave is like 10% of our dmg atm on ptr

Hoping this doesn't get fixed imo. This trinket is currently fucking amazing. Had it proc 7 times in a row.

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I really dislike this class trinket. Such a pain in the ass on target swap fights. Probably entirely useless on Archimonde with all the swapping you have to do. So far from what I've tested, ret is as usual, middle of the pack at best.

Yeah im really hoping they make it stop resetting when we switch targets and extend the duration by at least 5 seconds because 10 is way too short.

[Kelemar]

Why can't the trinket just be our old beloved Libram of Three Truths?

Libram of Three Truths
Equip: Your Crusader Strike ability grants 44 Strength for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.

Now just add HotR and the % damage, and voila - perfect trinket:

Libram of Vindication
Equip: Your Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous abilities grant 5% increased damage for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times.

But no. It seems to me that all Paladin related stuff always has to have a drawback. Look at our glyphs even! Not any other class has glyphs which gives them real drawbacks!

- Glyph of Mass Exorcism: Lose your range
- Glyph of Battle Healer: Reduce the healing by more than half (wtf!)
- Glyph of Blessed Life: a 50% chance? Are you kidding me? As if it would be OP to get 3 extra HP per minute. Amazing.
- Glyph of the Liberator: When not cast on self... it's almost as if you just want Rets to not get anything for themselves and want to keep the "buff machine" mantra from vanilla going. Just with a bit dps so that you can keep the subs.


And to top it all of: Glyph of Templar's Verdict. A mandatory glyph that every Ret uses since 5.0. And it still isn't baseline? Blizzard, I'm really considering cancelling my sub until you've stepped up your game. I'm so frustrated with Blizzard as of late ......

EDIT: Okay, maybe I overreacted a bit with the part that no other class has drawback-glyphs. Still, doesn't change the fact that our glyphs are 80% useless.

[ujx]

Archimonde class trinkets that are straight up huge increase with 0 strings attached:

Rogue:
Assassination
Envenom also increases the critical strike chance of Mutilate and Dispatch by 76.85%

Combat
Your Eviscerate now hurls a blade at the target, with a 20 yard range, and deals 54.90% additional damage

Subtlety
Increases the damage of Ambush and Garrote by 71.36%

Shaman:
Elemental
Increases the damage and duration of Flame Shock by 109.79%

Enhancement
Your Windfury Attacks deal 439.18% increased damage, and have a 22% chance to generate a Maelstrom Weapon stack

Warlock
Affliction
Reduces the duration and period of Agony, Unstable Affliction, and Corruption by 27.45%

Demonology
Hand of Gul'dan has a 60.39% chance to also summon 3 Wild Imps

Destruction
Incinerate increases the critical strike chance of your spells against that target by 2.74% for 10 sec, stacking up to 5 times

Death Knight
Blood
Death Coil deals 43.92% increased damage, and heals you for 43.92% of damage dealt

Frost
Obliterate deals 43.92% additional damage as Frost damage

Unholy
Your disease ticks have a 65.88% chance to trigger Wandering Plague, dealing the same damage again to the target and all other enemies within 8 yards, split evenly

Priest
Shadow
Mind Flay damage applies Mental Fatigue to the target, increasing damage taken from Mind spells by (329 / 100)% for 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times

Monk
Windwalker
You have a 16.47% chance to perform a free Rising Sun Kick after each Fists of Fury, Blackout Kick, or normal Rising Sun Kick

Druid
Balance
Starsurge has a 65.88% chance to also trigger Starfall

Feral
Increases the duration of Tiger's Fury and Berserk by 203.12%

Hunter
Beast Mastery
Bestial Wrath now lasts an additional 30 sec on your pet, and it increases your pet's damage by an additional (27 +- 15)%

Marksmanship
Your shots deal (33 / 100)% increased damage per yard between you and the target

Survival
Your Arcane Shots and Multi-Shots have a 65.88% chance to reset the cooldown of Black Arrow

Mage
Arcane
Arcane Power also increases the damage and reduces the cast time and global cooldown of Arcane Blast by 27.45%

Fire
Inferno Blast has a 65.88% chance to also cast a Flamestrike at the target's location

Frost
Ice Lances cast immediately following a Frostbolt deal 65.88% more damage

Warrior
Arms
Your auto attacks have a 38.43% chance to reset the cooldown of Colossus Smash


Archimonde trinkets that have a condition to meet, thus making them more situational and less strong:

Warrior
Fury
Your auto attacks increase your haste by (220 / 100)% for 6 sec, stacking up to 10 times. This effect is reset if you auto attack a different target.

Paladin
Retribution
Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous increase your damage by (439 / 100)% for 10 sec, stacking up to 3 times. This effect is reset if you Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous a different target.


All dps classes/specs besides Fury Warriors and Ret Paladins get amazing, game changing trinkets that are fun and intuitive. This needs to be changed.

[Relimash]

you forgot the destro lock one but yeah, its kinda annoying that we have that restriction on our class trinket. where there are SO MANY class trinkets that dont have some bullshit tied to them.

Not the end of the world but it would be nice if it just stacked to 3, period, no matter what target.
The 10 seconds is whatever cause it dose take some, however little, skill to make sure you dont let it fall.

"I cant target sawp, ill lose dps. " ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Butosai]

If ecounter/tactics allows it, what do you think about lining up 2nd ES with 4p, do you think is it worth the wait for extra ES damage plus potential RPPM trinket proc at the same time with 2nd AW up?

0 min - AW+ ES
1 min - AW+ ES
2 min - AW+ ES
3 min - ES
4 min - AW+ ES

at this point you will be at your normal 2 minute cd rotation, assuming patchwerk conditions

3 of your first 4 Execution sentences will benefit from the shitty tier bonus. Doesnt look so shitty when you look at it from this angle

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

See that's why I'm kinda sad that there's no on use trinket for us- maybe the MS on use trinket will stay usable since it'll line up for a lot of the AW/ES combinations. Sure ilvls but I really dislike the trinkets in HFC, 1 trinket stacking fire damage for 1.5k - 3k dps depending on ilvl, 1 cleave trinket ressurected from Dragon Soul, 1 stacking strength trinket and 1 stacking damage % buff trinket? Oh and let's not forget the passive trinket with leech, versatility and avoidance?

[Xenocidic]

I assumed the trinket that put the burn on a target would be great but I kept getting undeerwhelming results with it. I probably need to do more testing with it but the initial impression was it was pretty bad.

The problem is that even with it being pretty poor trinket it was still a solid 5-6% of my damage and it didn't require jumping through hoops to keep it going like the class trinket will on multi target fights. Combined with the cleave being another 5-8% at least and the two of them are ideal assuming the class trinket is not changed which, lets not kid ourselves, it won't be.

[Deleted]

The problem is that even with it being pretty poor trinket it was still a solid 5-6% of my damage and it didn't require jumping through hoops to keep it going like the class trinket will on multi target fights. Combined with the cleave being another 5-8% at least and the two of them are ideal assuming the class trinket is not changed which, lets not kid ourselves, it won't be.

This is the thing about the class trinket that gets me; you will get differing amounts of damage benefit depending on both the fight and your raid's strategy for doing the fight (for example the difference between switching to adds and being allowed to stick on Archimonde which most won't be allowed to do). I just hope that the other trinkets will work out better for the tier (as the others will be higher item level until you are killing Archimonde on Mythic, but then sod's law I'll get it from a cache probably).

[Reghame]

0 min - AW+ ES
1 min - AW+ ES
2 min - AW+ ES
3 min - ES
4 min - AW+ ES

at this point you will be at your normal 2 minute cd rotation, assuming patchwerk conditions

3 of your first 4 Execution sentences will benefit from the shitty tier bonus. Doesnt look so shitty when you look at it from this angle

that is basically the whole point of that bonus honestly. it is no surprise it is a 10 second buff and the final tick from ES also coincidentally gets the biggest % mod.

id be more in line with something that didnt say HOPE YOUR ES CRIT BUDDY! OR YOU DID NO DAMAGE!

as for the cleave trinket it will be fixed, the same was with the cleave trinket back in dragon soul when on the ptr it went from 30% of your damage single target, to 1% single target, to 5% liveish. surprised about the rest of the weights though.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Anyone tried prot pala dps build yet? The 4set for prot is silly to say the least...

[Chris Singer]

Does ES last tick benefit from the 50% damage bonus if ES/AW are cast within the same global, or does ES need to be cast just before? Thought I saw some mention of the last stack of the set bonus being... "weird?"

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Does ES last tick benefit from the 50% damage bonus if ES/AW are cast within the same global, or does ES need to be cast just before? Thought I saw some mention of the last stack of the set bonus being... "weird?"

just macro them together and you should be fine assuming you don't fatfinger AW before you have a GCD ready.

[Ryuujin]

Loving Discordant Chorus trinket. Reminds me of Bone Link Fetish back in Dragon Soul.

[Reghame]

Does ES last tick benefit from the 50% damage bonus if ES/AW are cast within the same global, or does ES need to be cast just before? Thought I saw some mention of the last stack of the set bonus being... "weird?"

ES no longer snap shots, you use ES then wings and you get the 50% bonus on the very last tick ( which is the only important tick from ES anyhow)

Problem we have now is ES is becoming a really big factor in damage due to 4 set and wings. we might see big swings in our damage based on if that final tick of ES crit/multistruck or not more so than before. (im talking like a million or so damage swings here, not a couple dps)

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just macro them together and you should be fine assuming you don't fatfinger AW before you have a GCD ready.

yes and it shits ALLLLLLLLLLL over ret in aoe, just saying. ret will not cleave/AOE this patch you will be prot or you will be sat.

single does not seem to be that behind if you go with the fel trinket (cleave might be good too? not sure did not use it yet) nothing says stupid damage like spamming avenger shield. the spell actually beats our TV baseline and its funny as hell. i dont think the bonus will stay though, the prot community is in an uproar on leaving because their tier set sucks balls and are considered the worst tank in the whole land.

[Solsacra]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...amp-Discussion

6.2 Theorycraft thread is up. Let's gravitate over there, this one can slip away into the archives of the internet. Bit late to the party with throwing up the 6.2 thread, better late than never, i suppose.