[Feral] Pawkets' PvE Guide / FAQ - 6.2

[Deleted]

Swipe's damage has been increased by 25%.

Does this in any way change the circumstances in which we use Swipe at all?

[aggixx]

Tiger's fury or berserk ?

I'm struggling to see what your getting at here, if your using it inside of berserk the two staying perfectly in sync and coming off cd at the same time doesn't have a huge impact. If you're trying to get at tiger's furys availability for your second berserk that is.

I get that you're delaying tigers fury and that could potentially result in one less use over the duration of a fight. That much I understand why it could be a loss. There are so many other things though that would suggest it to be a gain. I'm not one for sims, but it would be nice to see the results your getting out of it. Going to just be doing some parses, sure they might not be as accurate, but the change I was getting in numbers last I tried was large enough that it should be able to prove the point.

I'm saying that if at any point you don't use them at the same time, it causes a potential loss later which makes it not as clear a gain as it may seem. Yes it is a fairly small consequence but really all of this behavior has a fairly small impact to total DPS.

If you can outline specifically what you're doing I can sim it compared to the current behavior and post the results. I'm not entirely sure how you're using TF since you didn't say in your post.

Does this in any way change the circumstances in which we use Swipe at all?

Reduces the number of targets where you forsake tab rake from 11 to 10. So no, not really.

[Zanzha]

Willdo, just running some parses at the moment, Still tweaking each time so I'll take whatever worked the best out of that and swing it your way.
(just looking at the opener and damage for the period of incarnation)

Ok, Here are the best two ability order's I got.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...39&view=events
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...64&view=events

Busy at the moment, But I'll do a proper breakdown to make it easier on the eyes later

[Kraineth]

at the risk of sounding like a prat, is this buff only relevant at 90? or will it be a 12% buff at 100 too?

These hotfixes apply at level 100, but they are more than likely going to revert most of them, or do more hotfixes once WoD goes live to rebalance.

[Zanzha]

@pawckets, what I've started doing is

pot
incar
rake
zerk
shred to 5
TF
rip
shred to 5
Bite

standard from there on
Again, this is without BL, which I have a feeling is a fairly big factor as the energy from TF is neglible due to the increased regen rate

[Aseyhe]

Pretty sure that if you're running Soul of the Forest, you typically can't spend all of your energy during Berserk even without Tiger's Fury (or Bloodlust) -- meaning that you need to either TF before Berserk or Berserk near minimum energy.

[Leaky]

No, it's not worth it. The only time you want to refresh Rip before 7.2 seconds is at sub-25% to get a TFed one up.

You don't want to delay Tiger's Fury nor do you want to ever let Rip fall off (with the exception of the late refresh thing explained in the guide, but that's not particularly relevant at 90 for Rip).

Edit: Was wrong about clipping Rip with TF, it's actually not a gain.

What about Rake?

[Dulcet]

From what I've been reading is Incarnation better then SOTF now?

Been struggling on trying to understand what people have been using and why.

Thanks.

[aggixx]

What about Rake?

You should apply Rake anytime you can put a stronger one up, it should be explained in the guide in the snapshot & clipping section.

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From what I've been reading is Incarnation better then SOTF now?

Been struggling on trying to understand what people have been using and why.

Thanks.

SimulationCraft sims a 6 to 9 minute fight and in those circumstances they come out roughly equal. With the difficulty of the content at the moment, you're very likely to have fights that are significantly shorter than this which swings the pendulum in favor of Incarnation. I would say any fight that lasts 4 minutes or less Incarnation is the clear best option.

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@pawckets, what I've started doing is

pot
incar
rake
zerk
shred to 5
TF
rip
shred to 5
Bite

standard from there on
Again, this is without BL, which I have a feeling is a fairly big factor as the energy from TF is neglible due to the increased regen rate

Alright so here's some results. "Synchronize" is the current SimC behavior where Berserk is always used immediately after it activates TF. "Zanzha" is literally what you described, TFing @ 5 CP regardless of energy. And the third profile just uses Berserk and Inc like you suggested but uses TF as soon as it won't waste energy.

These sims are with a 3 minute average length, +/- 30% (so 2m6s to 3m54s) as I think that is fairly realistic for current content, and it reflects the impact of the opener better. You can click the images to go to the report.

With bloodlust at 1 second into the fight:


With no bloodlust (at all):


So its a very small gain, perhaps there's more to be optimized with the way its doing things.

Edit: After dissecting it a bit it seems that the gain is coming from using Incarnation right before combat starts. Using the Berserk after its first generator and then TFing at 5 CP is a loss compared to solely making that change.

[Zanzha]

Interesting stuff, cheers for running the numbers, for me, I knew something was up, but nice to know the source. Will Look into optimizing it some more, could be worth simply using TF after the first shred IE.

pot
inca
rake
zerk
shred
tf
shred5
rip

The inflated difference I was noticing when testing was probably due to double harroms proccs, was simply using the first transition of lei shen in a hc run I was wiping in as a metric. Good to know it's still worth, or atleast not a massive loss like you were saying, however my early description was taking things to the extreme with the held back TF.

On another note. Does anyone have a good weak aura for rake / rip ? I've noticed that If I refresh mine outside of the pandemic window its duration incorrectly updates to 20 seconds.

[aggixx]

On another note. Does anyone have a good weak aura for rake / rip ? I've noticed that If I refresh mine outside of the pandemic window its duration incorrectly updates to 20 seconds.

Pandemic still happens even if you refresh it above 4.5 seconds, its just that the additional duration caps out at 4.5 seconds. It should go up to 19.5 seconds.

[Zanzha]

Yeah no worries, I broke my weakaura string, I used to have a separate notifier for when it was under 5 seconds. Realised when my nameplate bleed durations were matching the weakauras

[Gadfang]

Extremely well written guide.

Currently in the process of main swapping from an Enh/Ele Shammy over to Kitty for WoD (Boomkin has been my main alt all xpac), and this has made things a lot more clear.

[aggixx]

Thanks! Glad you found it helpful.

[Anbokr]

Have a question for some of the theorycrafter ferals that have toyed with beta: Are the level 100 talents a wash, dps wise in PvE?

Basically, I'm wondering which character to use my boost on as an alt character, and I love the Claws of Shirvallah model, but if it loses out to Bloodtalons by a significant margin; I'd rather just boost a monk or something. So anyone know? Is Shirvallah good for level 100 feral pve compared to the other talents on that tier?

[Chilbot]

Have a question for some of the theorycrafter ferals that have toyed with beta: Are the level 100 talents a wash, dps wise in PvE?

Basically, I'm wondering which character to use my boost on as an alt character, and I love the Claws of Shirvallah model, but if it loses out to Bloodtalons by a significant margin; I'd rather just boost a monk or something. So anyone know? Is Shirvallah good for level 100 feral pve compared to the other talents on that tier?

From what I heard Claws is worhtless for pve and BT and Lunar is the way to go. Claws is just a visual thing.

[aggixx]

Worthless is quite an exaggeration; its hardly worthless but it does lose to the other talents by a fair margin. As the passive option it is intended to be the inferior choice for PvE. Here's the last comparison I did a couple weeks ago for single target:
http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...0_1t_post.html

That was before the feral buffs a few days ago which makes Claws of Shirvallah just a tiny bit worse, but the impact is probably pretty insignificant.

[Zanzha]

Yep, claws sims lower in almost every scenario, only place I see myself using it is in heroic dungeons / challenge modes to the boost it gives to healing via versatility, and just for the general ease of use / laziness attached to it. Could always use tmorph, but that would be at your own risk.

[Exigent]

First off, I appreciate this guide! Thank you!

Secondly, I'm not sure what's going on but I was having issues with what should be a very simple macro. I was in a Mythic group the other day and got to witness first-hand the difference that Incarnation was making on the shorter fights (versus Soul of the Forest). Unfortunately I could not activate Incarnation via macros.

Even the one in the guide:

#showtooltip Berserk
/cast Incarnation: King of the Jungle
/cast Berserk
/cast Tiger's Fury

Berserk and Tiger's Fury would activate, but not Incarnation. Any thoughts on what the heck could cause this?

[Zanzha]

Incarnation is on the Global cooldown, tiger's fury and Berserk aren't. If you read above we noted that It currently appears to be worth using incarnation prior to the pull.