[Feral] Pawkets' PvE Guide / FAQ - 6.2

[aggixx]

Lunar inspiration will always be a better DPS option than Claws of Shirvallah. The only reason I would ever spec Claws over Lunar Inspiration would be a fight with heavy curse/poison dispels, or a lot of enrage effects to soothe off of targets. And even that is only if there weren't enough people who could cover it without a big DPS loss.

The only thing I spec Claws of Shirvallah for is a few Challenge mode dungeons because there are a ton of enrage effects in them/

So LI all the way, except for highly specific fights.

Not always, as is demonstrated in the guide with the HecticAddCleave sims LI can actually perform worse than Claws if you're looking at a situation where you just don't have the opportunity to use Moonfire. If there are too many targets, you won't have enough energy after maintaining Rake to get decent Moonfire uptimes and at that point the talent is giving you very little DPS gain at all. The same is true in a situation with lots of short lived adds because the Moonfire DoT is so weak you really need to get almost the entire duration of the DoT to tick to be worth casting in the first place.

But yeah don't get the impression that LI is worse, it certainly is the better choice in most cases.

[jhenrique18]

I don't see how those two sequences are different enough to where you can cast one but not the either; in fact you really should be able to do either with no problems. If you don't have enough energy its probably because you aren't Berserking soon enough.

Yes Rake should be reapplied during Incarnation as you do get the perk, and that actually makes the second sequence you listed much worse than the first. I recommend trying this, you shouldn't have any energy problems:
HT
Prowl
Pot
Rake
Incarnation
Berserk + TF as soon as you're at < 40 energy
Shred to 5 CP
Berserk + TF if you haven't yet, even if you have more than 40 energy
Rip
Shred to 4 CP
HT
Rake
FB

And if i use FB instead of the first Rip? Would be a dps gain?
I will lose like, idk, 3-4 seconds of Rip uptime but i will have BT to cast a better Rip.

[aggixx]

Nope, tried it in SimC and it wasn't.

[Macor]

Just quick question (sorry if it was answered earlier) should i aim upgrading SOW paired with lucky coin since butcher hc/mythic is kinda nice trinket and relatively fast obtainable? or trink list got majorly changed with recent changes? thx in advance

[Deleted]

Well, I personally don't like the Multistrike procc in every situation. For pure Singletarget this one is fine, for every other fight with add cleave, multiple targets and so on I would prefer another trinket than this one. What's wrong with the conquest insignia? Is that one no option for you?

[Macor]

Personally i don't do pvp on my druid since end of wotlk and cba pvp in general if i pvp i go with huntard
Although i heard pvp trinks don't have internal CDs and they proc like mad 620 ones atleast.

[Zstr]

with last trinkets hotfixes pvp trinket was nerfed, and Skulls was buffed so PvP trinkets not really worth anymore getting
http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...art=100#p26023

[Arctagon]

Not sure what you're talking about, it's still better than every heroic trinket.

[Azortharion]

I see I'm not the only one getting questions that are answered in the guide that the people themselves are posting on.

Keep up the schweet work Pawkets, I'm maining feral now, sort of. o.o

[aggixx]

I see I'm not the only one getting questions that are answered in the guide that the people themselves are posting on.

Keep up the schweet work Pawkets, I'm maining feral now, sort of. o.o

Yeah, you'd think it would be common sense to thoroughly read the relevant section of the guide before asking a question. Sometimes its hard to figure out if I need to find a better way of conveying things or if people are just lazy

Thanks, and welcome

[Trubo]

aggixx, I've been using those weak auras you linked back on page 8. However, I'm still noticing that I'm letting Savage Roar drop off, such as my abysmal 77% uptime on my guild's Butcher kill. I'm not very familiar with messing around with auras but is it possible to add a sound to one of your auras that goes off when Savage Roar has X seconds left on duration, or will I need to create a separate aura for that?

Also, ff you have time, would you be willing to critique me on my performance for that fight? I know my biggest issue is Savage Roar uptime, but other things I think I'm still screwing up on are mis-timed PS HT, not tracking TF for ideal Rake refreshing, letting BT buffs go to waste (either from HT too soon or getting a surprise Crit after 3x non-Crits) and not using some sort of gap closer after those knockbacks. Most likely other things I'm doing wrong but they aren't coming to mind off the top of my head.

Edit: Re-reading that guide and forgot that Ferocious Bite consumes extra energy. Could have sworn that was eliminated at some point in the beta. Probably also a bit too gung-ho about using Ferocious Bite in general, as I think I let Rip fall a few times during the fight.

Also, is it worth sitting at 5 CPs to do an extra Shred or two if SR or Rip are within 5 seconds of their pandemic threshold? I wasn't aware that SR had a pandemic threshold, which is probably why I was letting it and Rip fall so often.

[kliffharry]

As long as you don't let rip fall for longer than a FB damage it can be a dps bonus

[Gontier]

Not entirely relevant, however about your WA package, Aggixx, I've noticed that if you use maybe Rip while having two stacks of Bloodtalons (thus one is consumed and you now have zero CPs) and still got one Bloodtalons stack left and then use that on Rake, the Rake WA won't show it as affected by Bloodtalons.

That's just something I noticed while intentionally fooling around, but then again I might be missing something.

[bigbender]

Quick question: Do other players bleeds count for the ferocious bite crit duplicator or does it have to be one of my own bleeds? If so, is it a good idea to waste a cp on rake on a target that won't live long enough to rip so you get the double crit chance or should you just Ferocious Bite?

Also is Coin still BIS with the recent Buff to all the other trinkets?

[MachoSasquatcho]

Is it true that I should be using 4pc T16 (SoO Mythic) if I have it, for a DPS increase in Highmaul?

[Big Daddy Longstroke]

Sometimes when I apply rake from prowl it ticks out extremely fast like a couple seconds, it does not seem to happen all the time but enough that I know I am not seeing things. Has anyone else noticed this and am I missing a telent or something that is causing this or is it a bug?

Never mind, I think it's needtoknow tracking the stun from rake for some reason. I still don't know why it only does it once in awhile though.

[Trubo]

Sometimes when I apply rake from prowl it ticks out extremely fast like a couple seconds, it does not seem to happen all the time but enough that I know I am not seeing things. Has anyone else noticed this and am I missing a telent or something that is causing this or is it a bug?

Never mind, I think it's needtoknow tracking the stun from rake for some reason. I still don't know why it only does it once in awhile though.

Assuming it can be stunned, it's possible that someone else already stunned it, thus making your Rake stun suffer from diminishing returns.

[aggixx]

aggixx, I've been using those weak auras you linked back on page 8. However, I'm still noticing that I'm letting Savage Roar drop off, such as my abysmal 77% uptime on my guild's Butcher kill. I'm not very familiar with messing around with auras but is it possible to add a sound to one of your auras that goes off when Savage Roar has X seconds left on duration, or will I need to create a separate aura for that?

You can easily attach a sound to the pandemic indicator showing by going to the Actions tab on "Savage Roar Overlay" and selecting a sound. If you want it to trigger at a different time (like <3 seconds remaining) then you can duplicate that same aura, change the color of the icon in the display tab to be transparent, change the time threshold in the trigger, and add the sound in the Actions tab.

Also, ff you have time, would you be willing to critique me on my performance for that fight? I know my biggest issue is Savage Roar uptime, but other things I think I'm still screwing up on are mis-timed PS HT, not tracking TF for ideal Rake refreshing, letting BT buffs go to waste (either from HT too soon or getting a surprise Crit after 3x non-Crits) and not using some sort of gap closer after those knockbacks. Most likely other things I'm doing wrong but they aren't coming to mind off the top of my head.

You should Incarnation immediately after your Rake to buff the couple shreds before you use your other cooldowns. I personally wouldn't ever macro Incarnation to Berserk because I know that's suboptimal but its not really a huge deal. Make sure your macro is triggering Berserk before Tiger's Fury so it can raise your energy cap first and possibly prevent wasted Tiger's Fury energy. The latest you should use Tiger's Fury is right before you apply your Rip because that way it can affect that Rip + a Rake + a Ferocious Bite with all your trinkets up, you're not going to get more bang for your buck than that.

Your bleed uptimes look pretty good, you're missing a couple % but I suspect a good chunk of that's from the enrage since you guys took almost 20 seconds after the enrage to kill him and you died pretty much instantly. SR uptime is a huge issue like you mentioned, but the change you mentioned should help out; make sure you're not restricting yourself to casting it with 5 combo points, if you can that's great but you can and absolutely should refresh it with any number of combo points as needed.

Your cooldown usage looks good for the most part, Tiger's Fury interval looks tight and you planned your cooldowns accordingly for the fight duration. Your second pot was late though, that should've been used immediately after your second Incarnation. You wasted 38 energy from Tiger's Fury which is certainly not ideal, you should be able to get that to 0. If you TF at something like 38, 39, 40 energy and your energy regen causes you to waste a few (as in ~2 energy, not 10) that's perfectly fine, but that doesn't show up in the logs, only energy that is directly wasted does.

You had 26 PS procs and 25 HT casts which is very much not bad at all. Hard to tell TF snapshotting from logs but if you think you're not doing as well as you could be that's probably the case.

Edit: Re-reading that guide and forgot that Ferocious Bite consumes extra energy. Could have sworn that was eliminated at some point in the beta. Probably also a bit too gung-ho about using Ferocious Bite in general, as I think I let Rip fall a few times during the fight.

Also, is it worth sitting at 5 CPs to do an extra Shred or two if SR or Rip are within 5 seconds of their pandemic threshold? I wasn't aware that SR had a pandemic threshold, which is probably why I was letting it and Rip fall so often.

Yeah make sure you take advantage of that, Ferocious Bite is an extremely efficient use of energy nowadays so doubling up on your invest is definitely something you want to do. If you can't afford to pool an extra 25 energy without your buff/debuff maintenance going to shit then that's definitely not a situation you should be considering biting in in the first place.

No, their pandemic thresholds are so high that you should almost always be able to get to 5 combo points again before the expire. The one situation like that where you'd probably not want to Ferocious Bite is if your Savage Roar and Rip are going to expire so closely to each other that you know Biting now will definitely cause you downtime on one or the other, in that case you should probably just refresh Savage Roar early. Typically though when I notice I'm in a collision situation like this I end up Biting then refreshing Rip, and having enough time to get a 1 or 2 CP SR afterward. Sometimes you get a couple second SR downtime but its worth if you got an extra Bite out of it.

As long as you don't let rip fall for longer than a FB damage it can be a dps bonus

In a vacuum, sure, but realistically that's not always true. If my Rip needs to tick for 10 seconds to do as much damage as a Ferocious Bite, that doesn't mean any choice that involves causing a downtime of less than 10 seconds is the best choice, they're can always be (and often is) a better one.

Not entirely relevant, however about your WA package, Aggixx, I've noticed that if you use maybe Rip while having two stacks of Bloodtalons (thus one is consumed and you now have zero CPs) and still got one Bloodtalons stack left and then use that on Rake, the Rake WA won't show it as affected by Bloodtalons.

That's just something I noticed while intentionally fooling around, but then again I might be missing something.

That's not something I've noticed nor is it anything I can replicate. There was an old version from before WoD launch that had this behavior though. When you mouseover the WeakAura group in the options window, what version does it say you have?

Quick question: Do other players bleeds count for the ferocious bite crit duplicator or does it have to be one of my own bleeds? If so, is it a good idea to waste a cp on rake on a target that won't live long enough to rip so you get the double crit chance or should you just Ferocious Bite?

Also is Coin still BIS with the recent Buff to all the other trinkets?

http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopi...=unread#p26023

Will update the guide to reflect tomorrow, hopefully.

Is it true that I should be using 4pc T16 (SoO Mythic) if I have it, for a DPS increase in Highmaul?

It should be, but you may want to sim it vs. your normal gear to be certain. I wouldn't use it for anything that isn't pure single target, though, as both bonuses rapidly lose a lot of value as soon as you add multiple or short-lived targets. I'm only using it on Kargath and Butcher, although Ko'ragh is probably an option as well.

Sometimes when I apply rake from prowl it ticks out extremely fast like a couple seconds, it does not seem to happen all the time but enough that I know I am not seeing things. Has anyone else noticed this and am I missing a telent or something that is causing this or is it a bug?

Never mind, I think it's needtoknow tracking the stun from rake for some reason. I still don't know why it only does it once in awhile though.

Track by spell ID and use the ID 155722, that's the aura for the bleed.

[gardner]

I overlooked one thing with feral which is that berserk extends our max energy cap to 150. This means that in our opener the order for TF changes if i am not mistaken.
Should i t look like that then: Prowl
Rake
Incarnate
Berserk
Tigers fury
Rake
and so on, the standard rotation.

[Zstr]

Not sure what you're talking about, it's still better than every heroic trinket.

sry but I'm not sure what are you talking about, it is better?where
I even put link to last hotfixed sim result and I'm not seeing it above any hc trinkets

- - - Updated - - -

I overlooked one thing with feral which is that berserk extends our max energy cap to 150. This means that in our opener the order for TF changes if i am not mistaken.
Should i t look like that then: Prowl
Rake
Incarnate
Berserk
Tigers fury
Rake
and so on, the standard rotation.

here is the opener:

I don't see how those two sequences are different enough to where you can cast one but not the either; in fact you really should be able to do either with no problems. If you don't have enough energy its probably because you aren't Berserking soon enough.

Yes Rake should be reapplied during Incarnation as you do get the perk, and that actually makes the second sequence you listed much worse than the first. I recommend trying this, you shouldn't have any energy problems:
HT
Prowl
Pot
Rake
Incarnation
Berserk + TF as soon as you're at < 40 energy
Shred to 5 CP
Berserk + TF if you haven't yet, even if you have more than 40 energy
Rip
Shred to 4 CP
HT
Rake
FB

Golden rule of any cooldown, pretty much.