[Feral] Pawkets' PvE Guide / FAQ - 6.2

[aggixx]

You can just cancel the buff.

Cancelling the buff is electing to throw away part of the value of the trinket. Yes you should have a keybind to cancel it but it isn't an all-encompassing solution to the trinket's flaws. If you're cancelling more than rarely you may very well be better off using a different trinket, it just depends on what you have available to you.

Is it better to refresh Rip a little early if it means empowering it with TF?

If at 5 CP and waiting for Rip to enter its pandemic threshold, is it better to hold off on TF for a minimal amount of seconds in order to not cap on energy, or is it better to FB to expend the combo points and energy to make room for TF as it comes off cooldown?

No reason it wouldn't be, its a question of how much. 8 seconds is about the absolute soonest I would refresh but it depends on the circumstances since the opportunity cost can vary (if procs are active and wont be later then it might be better to bite instead, among other things).

Well first off, with 4pT18 this situation should never happen, you should not be pooling for Rip ever because you will inevitably waste energy doing so. Without 4p I would still bite 100% of the time (for single target) because with that much energy you're virtually guaranteed to be able to refresh Rip before it fades and likely with TF as well. In a 2 or 3 target situation where you really want to use as much of your CP as possible on Rip (or risk losing uptime later) I would favor refreshing Rip a little early rather than pushing back TF.

[Arctagon]

Cancelling the buff is electing to throw away part of the value of the trinket. Yes you should have a keybind to cancel it but it isn't an all-encompassing solution to the trinket's flaws. If you're cancelling more than rarely you may very well be better off using a different trinket, it just depends on what you have available to you.

It is, but not cancelling it in the situations given will result in a much larger DPS loss. It was merely meant to make them aware that such an option exists.

No reason it wouldn't be, its a question of how much. 8 seconds is about the absolute soonest I would refresh but it depends on the circumstances since the opportunity cost can vary (if procs are active and wont be later then it might be better to bite instead, among other things).

You would in other words refresh 0.8 seconds earlier at most?

Well first off, with 4pT18 this situation should never happen, you should not be pooling for Rip ever because you will inevitably waste energy doing so. Without 4p I would still bite 100% of the time (for single target) because with that much energy you're virtually guaranteed to be able to refresh Rip before it fades and likely with TF as well. In a 2 or 3 target situation where you really want to use as much of your CP as possible on Rip (or risk losing uptime later) I would favor refreshing Rip a little early rather than pushing back TF.

It's only a waste of energy if OoC procs and goes unspent, right?

On another note, with regards to your weakauras, damage modifiers are not displaying when Rake is applied under the effects of Spirit Shift. Possible to fix?

[aggixx]

Right, my point was switching it out depending on the fight is still good advice regardless of the fact that you can cancel it.

Yes, thats just what I do, might not be optimal who knows. You could try to sim it but you wouldn't get anything useful because the scenario doesn't happen often enough.

Umm, no? The 4pc gives you energy, if you're at 50 (edit: 70, forgot about 2p) or more energy when Omen procs you will energy cap which means you wasted damage, its not just about using the proc. Theoretically yes you only lose damage if it procs but that doesn't change the fact you're taking a risk 100% of the time since it is entirely unpredictable.

Already fixed a while ago, update to the newest version.

[Arctagon]

You're saying it yourself. The 4pc gives energy, but only when spending OoC procs. If you use it at >50 energy, then you will waste energy, and if you don't use it at all you will definitely waste energy, but normally you wouldn't spend energy on anything else than a finisher (save, perhaps, for Thrash) when you're already at 5 CP.

Whatever the case, I don't have any T18 set bonuses yet, so it's irrelevant.

[The Cat]

The point is you shouldn't be pooling energy at all so you can avoid potentially wasting energy. Either bite or refresh rip, don't let energy pool to wait out rip threshold and then refresh it.

But, as you said for you this is somewhat irrelevant if you don't have 4pc

[aggixx]

You're saying it yourself. The 4pc gives energy, but only when spending OoC procs. If you use it at >50 energy, then you will waste energy, and if you don't use it at all you will definitely waste energy, but normally you wouldn't spend energy on anything else than a finisher (save, perhaps, for Thrash) when you're already at 5 CP.

Don't understand what you're trying to say. You said "its only a waste if I don't use it" and I said "no its not, even if you use it its still a waste". You shouldn't be pooling because that is what will happen when you do.

Also, rethinking this question:

Is it better to refresh Rip a little early if it means empowering it with TF?

My approach is "it must be beneficial to some extent" so I refresh early but do so conservatively so I'm not risking doing it more than is optimal, in this case probably too conservatively. If the Rip is Bloodtalons'd you're getting an additional 15% of Rip DPS for ~28 seconds, so on paper it would be okay to waste up to 28 * 15% = 4.2 seconds. If the Rip is not Bloodtalons'd then you would tend to refresh it closer to its 7.2 second mark so the benefit is a bit less. Clipping at <11s is probably fine in practice.

Sim'd it for fun, DPS gain was 11 and the DPS error is 42. So yeah, not significant at all but it doesn't seem to be a lost at least.

[Hildrande]

I got it wrong :-)

[Arctagon]

Don't understand what you're trying to say. You said "its only a waste if I don't use it" and I said "no its not, even if you use it its still a waste". You shouldn't be pooling because that is what will happen when you do.

I said that in the very quote you posted, but never mind, it's pointless to discuss when we seem to be in agreement.

Also, rethinking this question:

My approach is "it must be beneficial to some extent" so I refresh early but do so conservatively so I'm not risking doing it more than is optimal, in this case probably too conservatively. If the Rip is Bloodtalons'd you're getting an additional 15% of Rip DPS for ~28 seconds, so on paper it would be okay to waste up to 28 * 15% = 4.2 seconds. If the Rip is not Bloodtalons'd then you would tend to refresh it closer to its 7.2 second mark so the benefit is a bit less. Clipping at <11s is probably fine in practice.

Sim'd it for fun, DPS gain was 11 and the DPS error is 42. So yeah, not significant at all but it doesn't seem to be a lost at least.

So what you changed from the normal rotation was clip Rip at <11 seconds if it means adding TF? And the gain was 11, out of what, 60-70k DPS? If you can call it a gain at all, that is, since the DPS error is significantly larger than the simmed gain.

[aggixx]

So what you changed from the normal rotation was clip Rip at <11 seconds if it means adding TF? And the gain was 11, out of what, 60-70k DPS? If you can call it a gain at all, that is, since the DPS error is significantly larger than the simmed gain.

Yes, Rip at <11 if Tiger's Fury up and at <1 second and new tick multiplier > old one.

[Drunkpanda]

Hi Pawkets,
I just wanna ask since the buff for dots in patch 6.2, do we need to use thrash on single target?
and in multiple target combat, is it better to use rake and thrash, in other words, keep them bleeding, better than swipe?

[Deleted]

Just did a pug on heroic iskar on my feral offspec and I got REALLY pissed off.

Got some wipes and people expect me to be some prodigal son since I've got a 720 item level...

Except Tits McGee the warrior does more DPS than me, so does some random rogue and when I leave they start slagging me off.

I look at my skada and the warrior does 7.6 million to adds, 5.6 million to boss and 2.2 million to big add.

I do 9.5 million to boss, and 3.6 million to big add and 500k to small adds. How do you reason with stupid people...

[aggixx]

How do you reason with stupid people...

Hi Pawkets,
I just wanna ask since the buff for dots in patch 6.2, do we need to use thrash on single target?
and in multiple target combat, is it better to use rake and thrash, in other words, keep them bleeding, better than swipe?

The 6.2 buffs don't change anything rotationally, but it is beneficial to use thrash with the current 4 set. Check out the set bonuses section of the guide (which I may or may not have just got around to adding), it explains how to use it.

[Arctagon]

Any word when Simcraft will be updated to reflect the patch changes?

How do you reason with stupid people...

You don't, unfortunately. They don't know what reason is.

[aggixx]

Its already updated, you can find the newest version at http://downloads.simulationcraft.org

[Arctagon]

As far as I can tell, it's only for Windows currently.

[sinofasin]

Hi sorry, quick question since im learning feral from playing boomie all my life, mainly for single target raid boss purposes, for the opening sequence of feral, apart from what's mentioned over @ icyvein:

HT>pot>incarn>rake>shred>shred>berzerk + tiger fury>rip> (Do i shred till 5 cp and savage roar here or do i do it somewhere before?)

And also while i'm at this, for multi targets, i understand that if they're gonna stay alive for a substantial amount of time, its best to apply rip to all and have thrash up, what do i do with the combo points that i accumulate from all the ripping apart from keeping savage roar up? Sorry for the wordy post but yeah would really like to know >.<

[Arctagon]

I suggest reading the first post before asking questions.

For multiple targets, dump combo points on Rip or FB depending on how long the target will live.

[aggixx]

As far as I can tell, it's only for Windows currently.

Yeah, not sure why. You can always compile it from source yourself, not the easiest thing to do but there is a guide on the wiki.

[Arctagon]

Is there any point in valuing mastery slightly more than crit after the buff?

[Zstr]

no there not,it's getting close but nothing really changed