[GUIDE] Fury of Fistfire: Windwalking in [6.2]

[Ezyah]

Hmm, are we going to be using chiex on ST aswell now ?

[pandanaconda]

Lol, after the first changes I set my mind on thinking about what the current PTR build could mean on us gameplay wise/number wise without thinking wether we'll be overnerfed/overpowered.

I have to say though whoever is in charge of WW out there... I'd love to see them taking decisions :P
Those T18 changes are pretty huge, the set looked kinda underwhelming until now. I'm worried with so many procs we will energy cap a lot more than we should. Not that this would impact our power level, since those caps are taken into account allready for balance. Just that it feels weird to go back to MoP's dynamic for WW (allways cast greatest damage dealing spell at any point in time, yo, no downtime). I kinda liked the early WW dynamic (even post nerfs during HM).
Plus, this COULD in fact mean that if we get too many procs, ChiEx might get ahead of Serenity with some gear right? If at some point there is too much haste on Hellfire Citadel gear/T18 and we keep getting procs (10% from set, 40% on RSK is kinda big), Chi Ex being able to dump chi might pull ahead on ST. Allthough ChiEx relies a lot on its dot to deal damage, so overwriting dots might tune down the scaling of ChiEx with lots of procs.

Still looking forward for changes, I guess we'll have to decide many things when things settle down a bit.
Are we gonna play serenity, delay it to use it on all ring activations (2 minutes)?
Will our gear offer a choice between haste and mastery, forcing us into a chiEx kinda build?
No matter what happens, I'm not a huge fan of a proc heavy gameplay, but thats personal. DPSing should be about making choices, and deciding wether to waste a proc to avoid delaying something else can be skillfull. Elemental shamans have this tensed kind of gameplay, and it sure is interesting to min max.



On a sidenote, I scumbagged a lot of damage on Thogar the other day. No one was logging unfortunately, I just wanted to see how high we can get by delaying BHoTM for first adds and padding a lot with SCK. Turns out I spiked above 200k dps and ended up above 80K without optimizing a lot, didn't expect to get that high. On serious content with my guild I'll still leave this job to other classes though, too much ressources dumped on adds.

[Hinalover]

Allthough ChiEx relies a lot on its dot to deal damage, so overwriting dots might tune down the scaling of ChiEx with lots of procs.

The ChiX/BoK DoT is an ignite mechanic. Meaning any damage that applies the DoT gets added onto the currently applied DoT. It does not overwrite.

As far as Energy Capping, we will be pretty darn close. In current T17 Mythic BiS list (only about 450 Haste Rating), the 4-piece was bumping up to the 58 APM which is close to energy capping even back in MoP. Granted The 4-piece does increase our Energy Cap to 120 (126 for Gnomes).





Anyway as far as Single target goes, this, so far doesn't help much with ChiX becoming on-par with Serenity in Single Target. But it does bring Hurricane Strike up a bit.



If people want to play around with the set bonuses now, SimC's nightly build does have the changes

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

When testing, add the following two lines after the gear listing

set_bonus=tier18_2pc=[0 for no, 1 for yes]
set_bonus=tier18_4pc=[0 for no, 1 for yes]

[angelmaz]

Silly question which I googled without success: do the clones from SEF die constantly to AoE and mechanics? In other words, is monk cleave a tedious babysitting chore?

[Krazzorx]

On mythic Kromog for the stone pillars, if you are on the far left pillar can your clone still reach the far right pillar?

[SlippyCheeze]

Silly question which I googled without success: do the clones from SEF die constantly to AoE and mechanics? In other words, is monk cleave a tedious babysitting chore?

No, they pretty much only die from pulling aggro to themselves, which means that in raid they are fine, but open world content can be a pain.

[Babylonius]

Silly question which I googled without success: do the clones from SEF die constantly to AoE and mechanics? In other words, is monk cleave a tedious babysitting chore?

They take 90% reduced damage from non-single target sources, and are healed by AOE heals like Healing Rain. Unless they get agro they are very hearty.

[Tradu]

They take 90% reduced damage from non-single target sources, and are healed by AOE heals like Healing Rain. Unless they get agro they are very hearty.

It does seem like AoE CCs and cleaves that don't count as AoE mess with them sometimes. At least they did in MoP CMs(for me at least) and some WoD dungeons.

[angelmaz]

No, they pretty much only die from pulling aggro to themselves, which means that in raid they are fine, but open world content can be a pain.

They take 90% reduced damage from non-single target sources, and are healed by AOE heals like Healing Rain. Unless they get agro they are very hearty.

Thank you!

[Deleted]

Does somebody have a Blackhand Mythic PoV with balcony action? I poked around a bit, but couldn't find one.
Is the balcony-solo easy as a monk? Or do you have to have uber gear to pull it off?

[Hottie4Hire]

When do I use Chi Wave in my opener?

When I get a BoK combo breaker while using Chi Explosion, it tends to only use at most 2 Chi. What I think is happening is that the Combo Breaker is basically a 2 Chi credit. Is this correct?

[Katryn]

Does somebody have a Blackhand Mythic PoV with balcony action? I poked around a bit, but couldn't find one.
Is the balcony-solo easy as a monk? Or do you have to have uber gear to pull it off?

You really don't want to be doing the balcony as melee at all. Get moonkin, warlocks and shadow priests to handle it. The ideal comp has 4 moonkin since they can just rotate, but 2 moonkin is completely comfortable.

If you're doing a strategy similar to Midwinter, as melee you probably just spend most of P2 either chasing the boss or baiting the mortar.

[Babylonius]

When do I use Chi Wave in my opener?

When I get a BoK combo breaker while using Chi Explosion, it tends to only use at most 2 Chi. What I think is happening is that the Combo Breaker is basically a 2 Chi credit. Is this correct?

Use Chi Wave/Zen Sphere as you're running in, at the same time you'd use Xuen. After that you want to use it whenever FoF, Serenity, and RSK are on CD provided you wont cap energy.

Combo Breaker with Chi explosion gives you credit for however many chi you've used and refunds you two. So if you use it at 4 Chi, you get all the damage/perks of a 4CX, then you're refunded 2 Chi, so you end up with 2.

[Deleted]

You really don't want to be doing the balcony as melee at all. Get moonkin, warlocks and shadow priests to handle it. The ideal comp has 4 moonkin since they can just rotate, but 2 moonkin is completely comfortable.

If you're doing a strategy similar to Midwinter, as melee you probably just spend most of P2 either chasing the boss or baiting the mortar.

Not every guild has 4 moonkins/shadows. And after a few IDs of farm the moonkins will not be motivated to do the boss as they will likely not need it anymore
Doing the balcony sounds quite a bit more entertaining than baiting fire and doing singletarget when not baiting(Siegemaker damage is irrelevant past the first two, so our cleave doesn't make a lot of difference).
Has somebody done it and can chime in here how hard it is?

[Pandragon]

Not every guild has 4 moonkins/shadows. And after a few IDs of farm the moonkins will not be motivated to do the boss as they will likely not need it anymore
Doing the balcony sounds quite a bit more entertaining than baiting fire and doing singletarget when not baiting(Siegemaker damage is irrelevant past the first two, so our cleave doesn't make a lot of difference).
Has somebody done it and can chime in here how hard it is?

I know how to do it. But not how hard it is, as my RL doesnt really know anything about monks and wont let me do anything that this class can do. Like Balcony, or Gruul soaking.

When you go up, Touch of Karma the first mob and bring its hp to around 60% so the Touch kills it. Put your clones on the next 2 and focus the third. When one of those 2 that got cloned dies put your free clone onto the second to last. then touch of death the last.

[Metaslave]

The problem is that the clones don't despawn on the balcony. And their target is dead. So you have to cancelaura sef and respawn both.

[pandanaconda]

Oh god, I've been avoiding overwriting dots outside of periods where I'd energy cap otherwise since WoD came out. I'm so stupid. (Don't even start to ask me about BoK "min-max".)

There are so many things which are not obvious about monk. Just SEF itself is a mess, most WW's have no idea how it works. When I first started monk I thought it didn't work with AoE spells, people keep telling me its not off GCD, others have no idea it has its own GCD and complain when they can't macro two casts of SEFs.
Every now and then I need a lfr run on an alt or for the legendary questline, and when I tag with WW's it hurts me to see the SEF debuff during a single target fight. Heck, I've seen monks doing pretty decent content keeping their SEF's up on a boss 5-10 secondes after adds have vanished.

There is no real ressource for this kind of stuff. I know most people don't care about it and the content of the typical WW guide is enough for them. But that leaves so many questions unanswered, particularly concerning what to do during AoE phases.

There are several things which I'd like to ask for myself since I'm not even sure anymore, but overall I think we could do a more precise description of most spells of the class.

-How does fist of fury work damage wise? Main target, I guess that is the thing you target while starting your channel, takes 100% damage. What happens if that target dies, or if you switch targets? Will those allways be considered secondary targets? I've read that other than that the spell deals its full damage over the number of targets, including the main one, as in with 6 targets each one will take 16.7% damage from FoF, allthough the main target takes a full 100%. Is that true in any way?

-What does "at 4 chi, chi explosion also inflicts reduced damage to all targets within X yard of main target"? How much target is dealt to secondary targets? Is it a fixed value per target or an amount divided evenly amongst those?

I can't think as of now of all the things I sometimes wonder about some tooltips, wether an ability will be countered by dampen harm or diffuse magic.
Then there is SEF. Even this guide says little about how SEF works. Not a complaint, but I mean the ability itself is worth a whole guide. What macros to use to put clones on targets? I personnaly have used a dozen different ones depending on situations, plus obvious stuff like "/cast @desacrated weapon Storm, earth, and fire". What other macros should you use with SEF? I personnally think /cancelaura SEF is mandatory, but is there something like /click totemframe1 or something like that if you wanna cancel just the first SEF you used and not the second?
I don't even know all the stuff there is to know about how they get healed, survive or stuff like that.

Sorry for being annoying like that but I just had to complain. This ability is terribly designed because its grown to be the core of monks and most of us have no idea how exactly it does work, most guide prefer to limit themselves to "use it as soon as you have 2 or more targets", simcraft does the same. There is so much more to it than that, and I'm sad I often am not sure ho my spell work exactly.

(Has someone calculated somewhere haste caps to get an extra serenity GCD?)

Thank god we have people like you hina or babylonius with the answers to those questions.

[Deleted]

everything said about sef

I really dislike sef. It got implemented out of no where because monks were doing bad cleave damage. Now blizzard claim it's an iconic ability. I say it's boring and/or annoying game play. Boring when you are fighting Twin Ogrons and annoying when you are fighting Thogar. Press it once, continue with your life. Or when its quick aoe, pre sef boss, sef one add, target another add, tigerpalm buff sefs, rsk debuff, chi burst, spin spin spin, remove sef on boss. If you are playing with people that know how to aoe you usually never get further than chi burst.

I feel that sef cements a design problem blizzard have with their game. If a class like monk should be a viable dps class, it has to have the same capabilities as a pure dps class like mage and rogue. And clearly we are a good cleave, bad aoe class*. So why take monks when you need aoe? All classes need to be competent at all types of things or we will never have a bring the player not the class raid environment. There can't be rogues that can soak damage forever, there can't be balance druids hitting everything with mega aoe. Raids needs to be punished for bringing too much melee or too much ranged on every single fight. My guild press down the number of melee down to bare minimum on every single fight. They are almost always punished way more than ranged, either with damage taken or downtime on boss.

* we can do good aoe damage, but the delivery is slower than most other classes.

[Babylonius]

Since you invoked my name, like Beetlejuice, I am here and I will answer

There is no real resource for this kind of stuff. I know most people don't care about it and the content of the typical WW guide is enough for them. But that leaves so many questions unanswered, particularly concerning what to do during AoE phases.

Many of us are trying to help http://chiburst.com/ become the go to monk resource, but its a struggle and the site will be getting work done as time goes on. Monks haven't had the luxury of years or large community to put together sites like this yet.

-How does fist of fury work damage wise? Main target, I guess that is the thing you target while starting your channel, takes 100% damage. What happens if that target dies, or if you switch targets? Will those allways be considered secondary targets? I've read that other than that the spell deals its full damage over the number of targets, including the main one, as in with 6 targets each one will take 16.7% damage from FoF, allthough the main target takes a full 100%. Is that true in any way?

Fists of Fury works like this, the enemy you have targeted when you cast it is considered your "Main Target". Any other enemies in the range of it are "Secondary Targets". The damage it does is split equally among second targets while it does full damage to the main target. The formula counts the main target as a target in its equation, so the secondary targets get the full damage divided by total number of targets.

Ex. 4 targets; Main target gets 100% damage, Secondary targets get 100%/4, so 25% damage each. 100+25+25+25 = 175% damage.
3 targets; 100% to main target + 33% to the two secondary targets (100%/3)
2 targets: 100% to main target + 50% to secondary target (100%/2)
10 targets; 100% to main target + 10% to 9 secondary targets (100%/10)
Etc.

Even testing it on a dummy, I cant' seem to determine how it works with picking a target and if the one you have targeted dies or moves out of the cleave.

-What does "at 4 chi, chi explosion also inflicts reduced damage to all targets within X yard of main target"? How much target is dealt to secondary targets? Is it a fixed value per target or an amount divided evenly amongst those?

Chi Explosion is handled similarly to Fists of Fury, the main target (your target) gets 100% of the damage and the others receive a portion of another 100% based on number of total targets.

I can't think as of now of all the things I sometimes wonder about some tooltips, wether an ability will be countered by dampen harm or diffuse magic.

If it says nature, holy, fire, frost, or anything besides physical, then it can be lessened by Diffuse Magic. Dampen Harm handles everything

Then there is SEF. Even this guide says little about how SEF works. Not a complaint, but I mean the ability itself is worth a whole guide. What macros to use to put clones on targets? I personnaly have used a dozen different ones depending on situations, plus obvious stuff like "/cast @desacrated weapon Storm, earth, and fire". What other macros should you use with SEF? I personnally think /cancelaura SEF is mandatory, but is there something like /click totemframe1 or something like that if you wanna cancel just the first SEF you used and not the second?
I don't even know all the stuff there is to know about how they get healed, survive or stuff like that.

I personally use mouseover macros with my boss frames and TinyPlates over enemy's heads. I use a /cancelaura Storm, Earth and Fire to get rid of them, as its frequently faster to do that than click them off. If you want to cancel one SEF and not the other then you have to recast SEF on the target of the clone you want to disappear.

They are treated as guardians just like Xuen, their stats update dynamically based on our stats, but they don't gain % damage increases like TEB. They take 90% reduced damage from AOE sources and can be healed by AOE or targeted heals. They generate reduced agro but only have about 10% of our health, so if they pull agro, they die quickly.

(Has someone calculated somewhere haste caps to get an extra serenity GCD?)

Windwalker has a 1s GCD, thats as low as it goes, no amount of haste will change that.

[LoKSET]

I've been wondering myself what happens when the main target of FoF dies or moves away, so I decided to do some testing just now. On two raiding dummies when I hit only the one I have selected it takes 100% of the damage, when I hit both the main takes 100% and the second 50%, that's something we all know. So next thing I tried is start channel on the right one (which is selected) and then move to the left one so that FoF is only hitting it. The damage was again 100% and not 50. Next test - positioning myself closer to the one I have not selected but still be able to hit the selected one. Selected one still took 100% and the other one 50. So the conclusion is - for each tick of FoF if only one target is hit it takes 100% of the damage regardless if it was your "main" target, selected target or whatever. If however your selected target is within range it will always take 100% and any other targets will take reduced damage. Overall FoF is pretty smart and you shouldn't worry about it. Until now whenever my initial target died I was frantically trying to select a new one so that damage is not lost but now I'm glad it doesn't matter.