[GUIDE] Fury of Fistfire: Windwalking in [6.2]

[Foncy]

However Aurelius is right, we have no idea what ChiEx will become once Legion comes in. Those two talents define our rotation soooo much its actually hard to guess how they could implement other options beyond that. Depending on tuning, ChiEx can dominate Serenity in all situations or be decent only for some cleave fights. Considering we're certainly getting some sort of rework, I'd get used to serenity. This is closer to our usual "black out kick/rising sun kick/fists of fury" bread and butter.

Here's to praying we keep these set bonuses forever in our artifact weapons? But... seriously, there's no telling what's gonna happen. Maybe we'll find out more at blizzcon but for now we just have to wait patiently.
Also am I the only one hoping Serenity gets reworked?

[Skylarking]

So if im reading this correctly, rising sun kick not on cooldown, only when debuff wears off? If nothing else higher is on the priority at the time then its rising sun kick?

[Tradu]

Here's to praying we keep these set bonuses forever in our artifact weapons? But... seriously, there's no telling what's gonna happen. Maybe we'll find out more at blizzcon but for now we just have to wait patiently.
Also am I the only one hoping Serenity gets reworked?

I really hope not. Having everything proc everything that then procs everything else is just not what I ever wanted from Windwalker(that's what Ret and Frost Mage are for). I like when it's a consistent spec, not relying on combo breaker procs much at all.

[Babylonius]

There is nothing RNG about haste, haste is +%energy regen and faster melee swings, MS on the other hand IS RNG.

Going with either haste or MS is gonna have little to no impact on ur overall performance. However, if u're still progressing, I'd go with MS and here's why; Most fights don't require linear dmg, which is essentialy what u get out of haste, but quick bursts/pack leg. ring with dmg, where haste isn't gonna give u as much bang for ur buck as MS will. Like imps on Mannoroth, u Chi Burst+Chi Torpedo, neither is affected by haste afaik. Imps on Xhul', u should be pooling Chi for RSK+4xChiEx/FoF+Chi Burst u don't need haste to do that. The same with when u're using Ring to get over certain thresholds of a fight, if u pool 5-6chi + Energizing Brew u won't ever get Energystarved during the ring.

Just my humble opinion.

Both fights you used as an example scream Chi Explosion, and thus scream Haste. Yes, they have burst requirements, but the rest of the fight is designed for CX with the big adds on both Mannoroth and Xhul allowing you to cleave your face off. You can also get good CX cleave on the imps in both situations and do quite a lot of damage. Your overall damage on both fights will largely be Chi Explosion, which makes Haste the preferred stat.

If you're going to refer to RNG, Multistrike is a chance to do an extra bit of damage, which is the definition of RNG. Haste is an energy regen stat which is not based on RNG and entirely within control.

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So if im reading this correctly, rising sun kick not on cooldown, only when debuff wears off? If nothing else higher is on the priority at the time then its rising sun kick?

It depends on what you're reading and what situation you're talking about. For 2+ target cleave, RSK for debuff, for single target use it on CD, for 2 targets both work roughly the same.

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NOob question;

I play my monk as an on and off alt, might be prepping it for main in Legion depending on what they do with WW, that said as it is right now, is ChiEX viable on ST aswell? LIke what the actual dps diff between that and serenity on a fight like say Iron Reaver? I quite like ChiEX both thematically and playwise, and I only raid HC etc.

The difference in single target is around 10%, which is pretty reasonable. It was closer then 6.2.2 widened the gap again. If you prefer CX and play better with it, and you're not in a progression guild that stresses min/maxing, then play CX if you enjoy it more.

[Deleted]

Both fights you used as an example scream Chi Explosion, and thus scream Haste. Yes, they have burst requirements, but the rest of the fight is designed for CX with the big adds on both Mannoroth and Xhul allowing you to cleave your face off. You can also get good CX cleave on the imps in both situations and do quite a lot of damage. Your overall damage on both fights will largely be Chi Explosion, which makes Haste the preferred stat.

If you're going to refer to RNG, Multistrike is a chance to do an extra bit of damage, which is the definition of RNG. Haste is an energy regen stat which is not based on RNG and entirely within control.

First line of my post said the exact same thing?...

Yes, both of those fights makes perfect use of ChiEx, so u are telling me that lack of overall dmg on Mann/Xhul cleave caused more wipes for you than imp-fails on either of those fights? Seems highly unlikely to me.

[Babylonius]

First line of my post said the exact same thing?...

Yes, both of those fights makes perfect use of ChiEx, so u are telling me that lack of overall dmg on Mann/Xhul cleave caused more wipes for you than imp-fails on either of those fights? Seems highly unlikely to me.

You're right, I mixed what you said up with what you responded to.

I'm saying that if you have to rely on the WW to do a large chunk of burst AOE then there is a bigger problem. No stat is going to make WW a burst AOE class. Haste makes you really good throughout the whole fight, whereas MS gives you the opportunity to make you really good with one part, it depends on what your guild needs from you.

[Deleted]

You're right, I mixed what you said up with what you responded to.

I'm saying that if you have to rely on the WW to do a large chunk of burst AOE then there is a bigger problem. No stat is going to make WW a burst AOE class. Haste makes you really good throughout the whole fight, whereas MS gives you the opportunity to make you really good with one part, it depends on what your guild needs from you.

Mannoroth is a very special case though, where WW is literally the third best spec(after Demo and Destro warlocks) at that specific pattern of burst AoE. Even Fury Warriors with correctly played Anger Management do at least a bit less damage than a WW having Burst+3xTorp for every Imp wave.
Mannoroth is also a boss where your guild might have several calls for a stop in dps for cleaner transitions. I'm actually playing Serenity on Mannoroth as Cleave damage divided between Doom Lord and Mannoroth is highly irrelevant in my guild, ST damage on the Doom Lords and to the boss as soon as it transitions to the last phase however, is not.

[Foncy]

I really hope not. Having everything proc everything that then procs everything else is just not what I ever wanted from Windwalker(that's what Ret and Frost Mage are for). I like when it's a consistent spec, not relying on combo breaker procs much at all.

It only does that because of our archi trinket. W/O it the spec would be much less spammy.

[Deleted]

Not sure if this belongs here or somewhere else:

Is there any way, with any existing nameplate addon, that could change nameplate color when RSK is up? i know i can have it shown in tidyplates with an icon, but i want to keep nameplates clear and show only SEF icon...

[Floopa]

sorry for these question - i play MW so i don't know anything about WW

1) i coined mythic whirlwindy trinket (from HHC) and the explosion trinket (from socrethar) last night, i have mythic wf SDI. i'm wondering which 2 trinkets are best. i know SDI is always what you use in 1 slot but i'm unsure about the 2nd slot.

2) for gearing means is multistrike > versa better than item level (ie: wf) agi gains? (or is there a BiS list somewhere?)

3) is ilvl what you want from your weapon? i have mythic wf mannoroth weapon and i presume it's bis but i want to make sure. DW used to be bis, did that change?

4) i was just randomly dpsing on the dummy in my garrison and FoF wasn't my top damaging ability, i believe it went Soul Explosion > BoK > RSK > FoF - is this the normal outcome now? when i was messing around with WW in highmaul i know FoF was the #1 damage source

[Deleted]

sorry for these question - i play MW so i don't know anything about WW

1) i coined mythic whirlwindy trinket (from HHC) and the explosion trinket (from socrethar) last night, i have mythic wf SDI. i'm wondering which 2 trinkets are best. i know SDI is always what you use in 1 slot but i'm unsure about the 2nd slot.

2) for gearing means is multistrike > versa better than item level (ie: wf) agi gains? (or is there a BiS list somewhere?)

3) is ilvl what you want from your weapon? i have mythic wf mannoroth weapon and i presume it's bis but i want to make sure. DW used to be bis, did that change?

4) i was just randomly dpsing on the dummy in my garrison and FoF wasn't my top damaging ability, i believe it went Soul Explosion > BoK > RSK > FoF - is this the normal outcome now? when i was messing around with WW in highmaul i know FoF was the #1 damage source

1. If u only want to learn how to use one of them it would be MotBM, Soul Cap doesn't include SEF-dmg and is mostly used on ST-Bosses like Zakuun/Reaver, but with good/great RNG it can out-shine MoTBM on several fights.

2. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post34469458 Was done b4 our buffs on 09/01-15 but little to nothing has changed.

3. Yah, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

4. Since u get so many Combobreaker from tierbonuses and RSK proccs from SDI, it's completly normal to have those above FoF in ur dmg breakdown.

[Bobrovsky]

sorry for these question - i play MW so i don't know anything about WW

1) i coined mythic whirlwindy trinket (from HHC) and the explosion trinket (from socrethar) last night, i have mythic wf SDI. i'm wondering which 2 trinkets are best. i know SDI is always what you use in 1 slot but i'm unsure about the 2nd slot.

2) for gearing means is multistrike > versa better than item level (ie: wf) agi gains? (or is there a BiS list somewhere?)

3) is ilvl what you want from your weapon? i have mythic wf mannoroth weapon and i presume it's bis but i want to make sure. DW used to be bis, did that change?

4) i was just randomly dpsing on the dummy in my garrison and FoF wasn't my top damaging ability, i believe it went Soul Explosion > BoK > RSK > FoF - is this the normal outcome now? when i was messing around with WW in highmaul i know FoF was the #1 damage source

1. Basically MotB for most fights, predict movement etc, Soul Kappa is better only for few bosses (Iron Reaver, Kormrok, Zakuun) and using a cancelaura macro is required for all three due to the RNG nature of the trinket.

2. Noted above, currently, due to ampleness of ChiEx, I would gear towards Multi=Haste>Versa=Crit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mastery

3. ilvl is boss, at least for Serenity. Some people have sims which say that secondary stats might win out. Overall, I believe 2h are marginally better, but ilvl definitely trumps here.

4. If you used FoF during Soul Kappa proc (as you should), then it won't show up on your Skada/Details. FoF / RSK are usually top of my meters, especially on cleave.

[Babylonius]

sorry for these question - i play MW so i don't know anything about WW

1) i coined mythic whirlwindy trinket (from HHC) and the explosion trinket (from socrethar) last night, i have mythic wf SDI. i'm wondering which 2 trinkets are best. i know SDI is always what you use in 1 slot but i'm unsure about the 2nd slot.

2) for gearing means is multistrike > versa better than item level (ie: wf) agi gains? (or is there a BiS list somewhere?)

3) is ilvl what you want from your weapon? i have mythic wf mannoroth weapon and i presume it's bis but i want to make sure. DW used to be bis, did that change?

4) i was just randomly dpsing on the dummy in my garrison and FoF wasn't my top damaging ability, i believe it went Soul Explosion > BoK > RSK > FoF - is this the normal outcome now? when i was messing around with WW in highmaul i know FoF was the #1 damage source

1) Mirror gets the most use on the majority of the fights, Soul Cap is useful on singe target fights with little to no SEF usage.

2) Generally ilvl wins out unless it has mastery on it. You can probably drop half a tier to get rid of Mastery

3) Ilvl is the best stat for WW scaling. Mythic WF Mannoroth is BiS. DW was king until 6.1 several months ago when they found a way to balance them within 1%

4) Soul Explosion, from Soul Capacitor, takes all your damage from the abilities and explodes it at once, so it will pretty much always be your top damage unless you have bad luck.

[Skylarking]

It depends on what you're reading and what situation you're talking about. For 2+ target cleave, RSK for debuff, for single target use it on CD, for 2 targets both work roughly the same.

Thanks

Im still trying to get a feel for the SEF clones lol. They have so many functions but only 1 button to control them.

[Deegurz]

Hey guys, first time poster here, had a question that is related somewhat to PvP. WW / BrM monks currently have two choices available to them for a conquest point weapon, the Wild Gladiator's Staff and Wild Gladiator's Pike. The staff is 2.00 speed and pike 3.60 speed, however the pike has higher base damage to compensate, and the DPS number comes out the same for both weapons.

Is one of these better than the other? PvP monks using 2H seem to all agree that the staff is much better because it is 1.6 seconds faster, but to me the difference doesn't seem that large at all (more tiger strikes procs maybe?). I apologize as I know this isn't a strictly PvE question, but you guys seem to have a lot of number-y type folk here, so it seemed like the best place to ask. Thanks!

P.S. As for myself, I bought the Pike awhile ago, and now that I am fully geared I'm wondering if I should dump another 3.5k CP and replace my pike with the staff.

[Oziemaster]

Any advice on how to perfectly place my SEF every time? On fights like Assault, Archimonde, Xhul with tons of adds moving and whatnot. It's so hard to aim (I use mouseover macro) for the adds you want. On Archimonde during P2 with all the teleporting adds, the deathcallers and what not I sometimes place my SEF on Archimonde or some times the add moves right when I'm about to place my SEF and end up hovering the terrain and recall my other clone. I enabled enemy health bars and just mouse over the health bar. But sometimes they just move so erratically and fast that I place SEF on boss when I don't want to, end up recalling my clones, or place my SEF on an almost dead add. Is there any way to perfectly place your SEF every time on the add you want?

[AureliusKJ]

Any advice on how to perfectly place my SEF every time? On fights like Assault, Archimonde, Xhul with tons of adds moving and whatnot. It's so hard to aim (I use mouseover macro) for the adds you want. On Archimonde during P2 with all the teleporting adds, the deathcallers and what not I sometimes place my SEF on Archimonde or some times the add moves right when I'm about to place my SEF and end up hovering the terrain and recall my other clone. I enabled enemy health bars and just mouse over the health bar. But sometimes they just move so erratically and fast that I place SEF on boss when I don't want to, end up recalling my clones, or place my SEF on an almost dead add. Is there any way to perfectly place your SEF every time on the add you want?

I find the easiest way, on a fight like Archimonde, is to hover over the boss frames directly. This allows you to more easily deploy your clone without having to find your target under Archimonde's huge feet. You can also use a macro to cast Storm, Earth, and Fire at a specific boss target (Deathcallers will be boss 2 when they come out) such as:

/cast [@Boss2] Storm, Earth, and Fire

I don't personally use the Boss1-3 macros, but it's something I keybound recently with the intent of practicing more in the future.

I have no tips for the doggies on Archimonde, but if you have trouble with missing them, you may want to consider splitting the macro for Storm, Earth, and Fire that you're using into a mouseover macro, and have a separate macro just to cancel them. This makes it much less punishing to miss when you toss out a second clone, but it adds more buttons so it could take a bit longer to get used to.

[Tradu]

Any advice on how to perfectly place my SEF every time? On fights like Assault, Archimonde, Xhul with tons of adds moving and whatnot. It's so hard to aim (I use mouseover macro) for the adds you want. On Archimonde during P2 with all the teleporting adds, the deathcallers and what not I sometimes place my SEF on Archimonde or some times the add moves right when I'm about to place my SEF and end up hovering the terrain and recall my other clone. I enabled enemy health bars and just mouse over the health bar. But sometimes they just move so erratically and fast that I place SEF on boss when I don't want to, end up recalling my clones, or place my SEF on an almost dead add. Is there any way to perfectly place your SEF every time on the add you want?

I've never had to help on the dogs myself, but I'd just throw clones on them just after they've teleported. Other than that, as Aurelius said, you could try boss#(although on some fights that can cause issues too). Another option is using an addon like TZ's Yes, Boss!, which lets you set up macros on a per-fight basis(so you could have specific macros for the Doomcallers/Overfiends/Doomfires, only leaving the dogs to focus on)

[Babylonius]

The biggest thing is practice. You will make mistakes and have to continue on. I can't count the times ive accidentally put one on the boss, but I learned that it's easier to just switch targets myself than take it off and put it back on.

Boss frames, target frames, nameplates, learn to recognize which is the most efficient one to use at the moment. It's a very difficult ability that few people use well and even fewer people talk about.

[Deleted]

Any advice on how to perfectly place my SEF every time? On fights like Assault, Archimonde, Xhul with tons of adds moving and whatnot. It's so hard to aim (I use mouseover macro) for the adds you want. On Archimonde during P2 with all the teleporting adds, the deathcallers and what not I sometimes place my SEF on Archimonde or some times the add moves right when I'm about to place my SEF and end up hovering the terrain and recall my other clone. I enabled enemy health bars and just mouse over the health bar. But sometimes they just move so erratically and fast that I place SEF on boss when I don't want to, end up recalling my clones, or place my SEF on an almost dead add. Is there any way to perfectly place your SEF every time on the add you want?

- Make macro for SEF + another one for cancelaura (can be on target or mouseover, whatever you prefer) and bind it to easy to use keys (personally I feel mouse buttons are best for such abilities).

- Get and setup addons for your unit frames (I use SUF for that) + nameplates (fe. Tidy Plates) the way that enables you to target priority enemies instantly. Most of the important adds are shown in unit frames so you can SEF them from there without manually aiming on the target. For others that you need to target from nameplates you can use opacity/size/color modifiers and filiters so important adds are easy to catch from mob blobs.

- If you have problems tracking and manually clicking the nameplates learn to notice and follow your tank/offtank position, most of the times the adds you ever want to SEF are tanked (or they don't move). Wait till add gets to it's tanking position and then SEF (SEF-ing moving mobs is usually a dps loss especially if mob is fast since your clone will then spend few sec runing to his target doing nothing).

- If you hover the terrain or miss target alot maybe it's a precision problem and you may want to try to decrease your mouse dpi/sens.

- Apart from targeting/setting it up it's really crucial for good SEF usage to always be aware of what are your clones doing. They seem to have tendency to get stucked on terrain or just bug out and observe the fight instead of doing something useful. Get WA to track their target and uptime to be able to recall them when needed.

- Another thing is learning all the fights and adjusting your clones usage to the group strategy/kill timers/dps etc. There is alot of situations, especially now, pretty late into tier where avg. ilvl is so high that very few adds in the raid are worth using SEF on since they die too fast. Also with how important priority target damage is in HFC (Gorefiend/Iskar chain adds/Socrethar dominators/Mannoroths all ads/Archimonde everything basically: doomfires/tanks adds/overfiends/sources of chaos/infernals) it's really vital to know when you should actually use that ability to benefit your raid more than your dps meter (that's if you are progressing the fight, go full ham on farm if you enjoy it).

- Apart from tracking your clones position make sure to track their debuffs in your head and adjust your play accordingly. Clones have their own buffs/debuffs, so you need to adjust RSK/TP/TEB usage so they benefit from them, if there is an add spawning in let's say 4 sec, you may want to save CB:TP proc and TEB so it's ready to use instantly when the clone is out instead having it without +dmg modifier from TEB for good 10+ seconds (usually most of the clone lifespan if you used TEB just before SEF). Don't forget that clones don't benefit from Floating Butterfly glyph so if they are running after their target you need to delay FoF and use it only when they reach their target, otherwise you will end up with 1/2 clones punching the air while giving you -dmg% resulting in massive dps loss.